Hundreds Feared Drowned In Migrant Boat Sinking

greencap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721874#Comment_120721874

By the same logic we are then to be applauded for the many inventions of the British empire, as Ireland was part of the British empire at the time. (As well as our own inventions - the hypodermic needle for example).

So by that logic of inheriting the actions of the past, those same African regions are compensated by us each time they use any parts of modern medicine and science associated with Ireland and GB, and even the wider British empire at the time.

Chocolate milk too btw. Thats ours, and Ill fight any Jamaican out there who tries to claim otherwise.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722131#Comment_120722131

They are wedged because these people are desperate to leave the hell hole they live in and are convinced the ship can make it.

Do you think the traffickers are telling them "hey this ship can only make it half way and you may die!" I highly doubt it, I also doubt there reputation has any impact on business since they dont have repeat customers and its kinda hard to leave a negative review if your you know... dead!

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720865#Comment_120720865

You are calling for the return of colonialism, how can you not see that?

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722288#Comment_120722288

This is what I said. Naturally you will not sustain a model that doesn't deliver. As for negative reviews? there's no shortage of smartphones in Africa and news that ships are going down or not being 'rescued' from a mile off the coast, travels quite well.

greencap

50 options other than a risky illegal dinghy in the Med.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3eICHVK_QE

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722490#Comment_120722490

But the model is being sustained and they are still sinking and still drowning as i said desperation will keep that "business" going regardless of rescue boats or not.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723098#Comment_120723098

We are only talking about scale so. Will we ever fully kill illegal immigration? no. Can we disincentivise it? absolutely.

Patrick2010

Rather one sided conversation on RTÉ now, Barry Andrew’s saying this should be a wake up call for the EU to live up to our obligations. Not sure what exactly we are supposed to do?

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723230#Comment_120723230

I mean how do you disincentivize it? If the high likelihood of drowning at sea doesn't dissuade someone from risking it i dont know what will.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723550#Comment_120723550

People have been going to sea knowing that they could drown in order to make a living or move to another country for centuries and it still doesn't dissuade them.

Atlantic Dawn

What I don't understand is why the migrants are giving such big money for such a brutal service that can be seen as such from the outset. Talk of each passenger giving $5k to the smugglers for the journey, there was at a conservative estimate 500 aboard so in this case that's $2.5million taken to bring them on a completely overloaded ball of sheite boat worth not even €100k. Could they not group together and buy some similar boats with better odds of crossing, obviously highly illegal but a far better use for a family of 4 to spend their $20k chipping in on.

Mullaghteelin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721521#Comment_120721521

The calls for safe pathways is to welcome everyone with open arms and ask no questions. Complete and total freedom of movement. I mean, that's effectively what it would have to mean. Anything less will not satisfy the advocacy groups. Migrants will still feel discriminated against if they are not free to do exactly as they please.

Lives will be lost unless we let them in, so we must do it on humanitarian grounds. But the flow will never stop by itself. The migrants will keep so coming so the borders will eventually have to be closed again sooner or later. Otherwise the whole system will collapse.

And so, the whole process starts all over again, with migrants risking their lives and renewed calls by the charities to let everyone in.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723550#Comment_120723550

Ireland can do its bit in the fight against the people traffickers who caused this tragedy by reducing the "pull factor". One way of doing this would be to make sure we opt out (or continue to opt out) of any current and future EU-wide refugee programmes.

Another way that would work in conjunction with the above would be to tighten up airport immigration policies. I had a suggestion in another thread that Airlines flying into Ireland should be required to collect passport data (including photos of main page) and pass these on to the Irish authorities. If the airline fails to collect passport information or the information is found to be false then a fine roughly equivalent to the cost of housing and processing the passenger would be imposed on the airline.

These and other measures should be implemented otherwise we will see more of these tragedies at sea at the hands of ruthless people traffickers.

Beasty

Tobias Jealous Steamroller threadbanned

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723830#Comment_120723830

I would treat these stories of parting with huge sums of money with a large pinch of salt.

After all, an asylum seeker looking to maximise the leverage on their claim, especially a weak one, isn't well served playing these figures down and they are simply not verifiable.

Galwayguy35

Barry Andrews and Grace O Malley on Drivetime earlier blaming the EU and basically saying we need to let everyone in who gets on a boat.

The adults who were on that boat made a decision to cross because they wanted to get to Europe illegally but of course O Hara would never mention that to Andrews and O Malley.

The kids who lost their lives had no choice and this is the real tragedy.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724485#Comment_120724485

The same EU who has said we need to prepare for a population of 10 million plus,

Like we don't have an actual say and our Leaders refuse to stand up and say no

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724576#Comment_120724576

Of course we have a say in it, we are one of only two countries with a sovereign people in Europe. And I have worked on political campaigns in both of them: Ireland and Switzerland. And its been my experience from actually knocking on doors in both that voters are well capable of figuring out what is best for them, they may not approach it the same way as you and I do, but they get there.

Your problem is that very few of them agree with you and actually elect parties and leaders that represent their views. You'll just have to learn to live with it or as you have a passport that entitles you to live and work in of those EU states you are complaining about, go see how you fair there, Poland or Hungary might suit you perhaps. Although Poland seems to have figured out which side the bread is buttered lately, so many be try Hungary then.

gw80

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721874#Comment_120721874

I assume that's a joke

Frankie Machine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724576#Comment_120724576

Not only the EU.

Eamon Ryan said it in the Calais debates in the Dáil, Nov. 2nd, 2016.

We must start planning for being an island of 10 million people, including bringing people in as refugees in scale, not just 200 people, but a much larger number and managing it.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2016-11-02/30/

Frankie Machine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725638#Comment_120725638

All a bit haughty there, James.

The masses don't think like you, 'but they get there'.

People who don't like the EU's position, should use their EU passport (you'd love to remind them how lucky they are to have it) to go to specific EU member states that you clearly hold in some disdain.

Although even one of those has, according to you, taken the soup to go with their buttered bread. Maybe it's for the millions of Ukranians they've taken in since war broke out.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725762#Comment_120725762

Both a joke and a coping mechanism, some people are unable to have a honest opinion about what is happening there. I guess it's also a bit of something similar to survivor guilt, people living in developed western world feel guilty about them having cleaner water in their toilet that the water people drink over there.

But the truth is we don't owe them anything and they alone are responsible of developing their countries.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725762#Comment_120725762

What's a joke? Certainly in the case of Nigeria, we participated in robbing these people of their beliefs. Other states may have appropriated minerals and resources but we actively engaged in converting them, setting up religious schools etc. So just as the British Empire has some responsivity towards immigrants from it's former colonies, we have some to Nigerians etc. However that doesn't extend to the Islamic states and the like, we don't need their zealotry here.

gw80

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726438#Comment_120726438

What's this we business,

You mean the church did just like they did the Irish people

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726013#Comment_120726013

You are just going to have to accept that you live on a state where the EU is extremely popular I guess.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726692#Comment_120726692

Germany 1936. You are just going to have accept you live in a state the Nazis are extremely popular I guess.

Russia 1980. You are just going to have to accept you live in a state the communists are extremely popular I guess.

We have to accept absolutely nothing, the EU will reform or break apart and whatever gravy train you’re knee deep in will come to an end

Invasion, occupation, exploitation, slavery, ethnic cleansing, empire building. None of these were exclusively European, Africans were and still are doing it to themselves and we owe Africa nothing.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726542#Comment_120726542

Yep and many's the son or daughter of an Irish family joined the religious in those times, some worked here and many others on the missions. Can think of at least three in my extended family who went off on the African Missions.

Frankie Machine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726692#Comment_120726692

My post was about your condescending attitude towards voters, towards people here who didn't ask you for your passport advice, and towards other member states of the EU.

But you've completely reinforced the point I was making, so thanks for talking-down to.

Yes, the EU is very popular indeed. What's not to love about an entity that allows you to re-run referenda until you vote the 'right' way.

As you say, 'voters are well capable of figuring out what is best for them'.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727089#Comment_120727089

Did they go for their own benefit on behalf of official Ireland or the Africans because you appear to think Africans got a raw deal that contemporary Irish people are inexplicably responsible for.