General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559475#Comment_121559475

Do we venture into the world where something can be both a penalty and a yellow card for diving? Hard to defend Jota there all the same. Easy goal if he stays up and he decides to take his chances that the ref gives it to him.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559510#Comment_121559510

I don't think you can because it's ingrained in the players now. If they ever brought in a sin bin then you could sit them out for 5 minutes.

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559498#Comment_121559498

The foul on Gomez a minute after the penalty was a far clearer foul than the decision for the one on Jota. Newcastle could've had 2 sent off for two yellows (Joelinton and Longstaff), bizarre they weren't given. Standard inconsistent performance all round.

505_

As a fan I think it was embarrassing from Jota. It’s a dive plain and simple. Yes there’s contact. Not enough to bring him down though. His touch is heavy realises he’s not getting there and thinks he has to try get the penalty. Football is not a non contact sport. It’s incredibly soft to give a penalty for that contact. The keeper is pulling out of it as well.

The ball by MacAllister was brilliant to play jota in though. Easy win and should have been a few more goals tbh.

sligeach

Newcastle were blessed they didn't lose that game by double figures. They have the worst away record in the Premier League, but the second best home record to balance the books a little so to speak.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559525#Comment_121559525

Couldn't believe he even got that game after Villa v Sheff Unied

Ottoman_1000

Some players seem immune to red cards! Like how did Joelinton stay on the field there tonight?

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559570#Comment_121559570

He has to be on City's radar.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559525#Comment_121559525

That foul on Gomez got waved away but when the same foul was on Isak or Gordon, it was a guaranteed foul. Didn't book Joeltinton and didn't give a foul when he pulled down Diaz but Diaz was booked in the same incident. Endo was booked, grand, but the same foul unpunished with even a free kick elsewhere in the game.

I think the penalty was soft, but there was contact so the VAR couldn't overrule. I'd hate to concede it myself. Might be a case of Taylor balancing up his night of bad decisions.

Fitz*

Liverpool creating 7.53 xg though. Wow!

A lot of games don't see half of that in total with both teams combined.

McFly85

Howe must be in trouble now. Sure they have injury problems but they have a horrendous away record and the manner of the recent defeats don’t look good at all.

If they do decide to pull the trigger, I hope it’s done with an Athletic article by Shearer entitled Thank you but f*ck off Eddie

sligeach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559570#Comment_121559570

Agreed. And if I remember correctly he should have been sent off in the game at St. James Park back in August. He didn't even get a yellow card in that game.

sligeach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559592#Comment_121559592

I read at half-time that they had set an all-time PL XG record and failing to score a goal.

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559615#Comment_121559615

Think he still has credit in the bank. Being English will add a few weeks on. Theyll need someone better to be consistently at top end though

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559641#Comment_121559641

One win in the last 8. If that was Johnny Foreigner he'd be getting crucified by Sky and TNT.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559651#Comment_121559651

He gets away with murder from Sky and the likes. Newcastle were terrible tonight, should have been beaten by 5 and he's not even questioned on the performance...

TitianGerm

Someone said that Jota must have triple captained Salah in FPL tonight and that's why he didn't tap in tonight and went down instead.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559679#Comment_121559679

It was very noticeable I thought pregame, complete focus of the interviews was poor Newcastle, all their injuries. Sure they have injuries, who doesn't? How many major players have Liverpool missed over the last 5 or 6 weeks for instance, but hardly mentioned.

Poor Eddie....perhaps if himself and Tindall did more coaching and less refereeing and sh1t housing during games they'd be better off

McFly85

English media are desperate for an elite English manager and the only person close to that is Eddie Howe, so he gets treated very well. Last season he was lauded for quietly going about his business(with little mention of the hundreds of millions he was spending), this season it’s all about how unfortunate it’s been for him.

Hes done okay, but the ambition of the club will soon outgrow Howe, just a question of when an elite manager becomes available.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559495#Comment_121559495

I'll have to watch it again, at no stage did I think Jota wasn't getting to the tap in

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559753#Comment_121559753

But woy.....

.G.

Mourinho will be at Newcastle before long, Howe is their Mark Hughes

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559460#Comment_121559460

Very true, Jota dived yet I'm furious at Mo for not going down more often as he gets nothing otherwise.

.G.

Premier league refs have made it so if you don't go down you get nothing. Foul or no foul. I think he's clipped but its soft as hell. Still there can be no arguments from any sane footy fan as to who deserved those 3 points.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559463#Comment_121559463

He won’t be accepting any invites to embassies 😂

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559783#Comment_121559783

Mourinho? Is a premier league club stupid enough to take another chance on him?

Did you smash it

Just looking at the arsenal Newcastle 4-4 game on the tv at the airport.

newcastle given a wrong awarded penalty but also had a goal disallowed for offside when the scorer was miles on.

amazing that

1- people think we are better off without var

2- that people and pundits actually believe or say that refereeing has never been worse

The Rooster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559753#Comment_121559753

Has he spent hundreds of millions?

Doesn’t feel like it. I expected them to spend much more. Isak their only real marquee signing post Saudi. There’s no doubt Howe/Newcastle well over achieved last season. Perhaps aided by others underperforming, but in particular he got amazing performances out of Almiron and Joelinton, who had been duds before he arrived.

‘Not dissimilar to the position United are in. Easy to sack a manager when results dip, not so easy to find a top quality replacement.

doc_17

The referee was very inconsistent with how he handed out his cards. The Joelinton one was a stonewall yellow in the first half. But also, Joe Gomez should have had one inside the first 5 minutes. Trent gets a card for kicking the ball away, and hutch was stupid as no way were Newcastle taking anything quickly, but then there a few other players from both teams who kicked the ball away and got no card.

L'prof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560167#Comment_121560167

He’s spent a bit alright. 18 signings averaging €29m a player. They’ve spent fairly sensibly but still spent hundreds of millions

The_Kew_Tour

Give em a replay....

SlickRic

Howe's problem is that when his team can't simply outrun teams, it has very little.

Newcastle overpowered so many last season. Can't do it this season with the sheer volume of games, plus teams have learned how to nullify then somewhat.

Klopp went through it when Liverpool were accused of being pressers and nothing else. It's up to Howe to figure it out or be gone.

IncognitoMan

Jota to me looks to take it round the keeper with the full intentions of slotting it home. He feels the slightest touch from the keeper but he plays on / it's not enough to initially put him off.

Football is a contact sport and those slight touches happen 100s of times a game but a player doesn't go down (because there is no advantage to it).

Something changes in his mind then where he doubts the chance and he throws himself to the ground.

Then, the question is how does VAR look at that and not come to the conclusion that he dived? It's about as straight forward a decision as a set of VAR officials could hope to be involved in.

It will never matter how good the tools are if the people using them aren't fit for the job.

It genuinely feels like they have a different rulebook they are using week to week and sometimes even in the same game.

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560473#Comment_121560473

Rooney now available as "plucky English manager" to take over at the Magpies!

Robson99

What an embarrasement the dive from Jota was....just stay on your feet and t the ball in the net.... absolute cringe stuff

Kiith

Its always funny reading this thread (and any general soccer thread tbh) when your team isn't involved. The Jota penalty last night is the perfect example of how people will see what they want to see. Doesn't matter how many slow motion replays are shown, we'll see what we want to see.

~Rebel~

Proper result of it would probably have been a penalty (if a keeper dives for the ball, doesn’t get it, and clips the running players foot it’s almost always a pen), and a yellow for Jota for embellishing so clearly - along with a reffing alteration to start giving pens without needing a player to go down.

Yup.. tis a weird outlook. The most obvious dive, didn't even affect the result yet you have loads of words written that it was a stonewall peno.

TitianGerm

https://twitter.com/honigstein/status/1742146520445526405?t=NHWkA-EgSqHxXAeLeA8YmQ&s=19

Honigstein with a sensible take on the Jota incident.

The penalty has actually taken away from outstanding pass that Mac Allister played to get him trough on goal. If KDB had of made that pass the commentators would have been creaming themselves over it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561138#Comment_121561138

Not all contact is a foul..Jota for whatever reason decided to throw himself to the ground instead of sticking into an empty net. Would have been a nice goal alright

BillyHasMates

The Jota penalty happens in games regularly. Not saying it's right but it's a regular occurrence to see players throw themselves to the ground when they feel contact. Unfortunately it's the modern interpretation of a penalty. Referees are less likely to award a penalty if a player stays on his feet, and VAR is even less likelier to change the decision the ref makes. That process encourages players to go down. I don't like seeing it but lets not pretend Jota is the first player to do it. It happens every round of games.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561153#Comment_121561153

It will soon become a non contact sport with the way its going

klose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560905#Comment_121560905

VAR is used to over rule clear and obvious errors, at the end of the day the keepers arm catches Jota as he goes around him. Theres contact and the player goes down, the ref calls a penalty, for VAR to declare it a “clear and obvious error” there would pretty much would’ve haven to been zero contact. It’s a very debatable incident and good points for both calls.

Still, far from them most egregious decision of the year in the league, let alone in a Liverpool game.

klose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561163#Comment_121561163

I mean bar laughably bad shirt pulling has penalty ever been awarded where a player stays on his feet? I’d argue the process promotes players falling/diving when there’s bad contact.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561153#Comment_121561153

Not every contact is a foul - but basically every instance of a keepers hand/arm making contact with an attackers foot without getting the ball is a foul. There’s pretty much no clearer visual expression of a player failing with a clear attempt at a challenge - if you’re getting your arms down to ground level, you better make sure you get a touch on the ball.

A more convincing fall from Jota, and it’s not even a conversation. Which of course is an issue - what the attacker does after shouldn’t determine whether something is a foul, but we are where we are with players knowing a pen is only awarded if you fall over. Wouldn’t have any issue with a yellow to Jota being given out along with the pen, as long as they looked to fix the officiating.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561064#Comment_121561064

Penalty sealed the game in the 86th min. Without it there is 4 minutes of normal time plus whatever gets added on. Potentially another 4-6min with a 1 goal difference between the teams.

It absolutely affects the game / result

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561199#Comment_121561199

It's becoming a non contact sport because of how the referees referee the sport in the league. Players feel the need to go down easily, because referees are not calling fouls for penalties when they should be. In general.

And then when there are genuine fouls, you still have the commentators calling the players divers and Sky Sports sets up the half time analysis to have one person say dive and one person say foul. Add in an ex-referee to try make up some guff about why the referee didn't make the correct decisions and it doesn't help things.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561205#Comment_121561205

At the very minimum VAR could ask the ref to look at it on the screen.

I think it's a clear an example of simulation. Jota is on his feet until he changes his mind for some reason. Maybe it's just so ingrained in the players now that once they feel a touch when in the box they go down. He seems to need to think about the touch / react and that's why there is a delay.

There will be those that say he was unbalanced or whatever but nothing in the way he moves or eventually falls looks like a player who's been unbalanced. It looks like a man who has thought to himself "felt a touch, need to go down"

Don't really blame Jota - this is a referee / standards issue. But with VAR here they have to get involved. Otherwise why is it there?

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561246#Comment_121561246

You are at the stage then where the keeper's existence is basically a foul. The league said there was going to be a higher bar for contact resulting in a penalty. In this case Jota clearly can stay up so the contact hasn't hindered his ability to stay up, control the ball or continue to play. He decides to fall over threatrically and everyone knows it's a dive.

At this stage as alluded to above you are better off making it like basketball and any contact not just with the ball is called as a foul.

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561284#Comment_121561284

Similar incident affected the result only a couple of days ago in the Aston Villa-Burnley game.

When DCL fell in similar fashion to Jota in a Merseyside derby a couple of seasons ago,Shearer called it clever,last night it was a clear dive. So people only make out its a dive depending on who they support or where their loyalties are.

If you were to go through every team in the league I can guarantee you will find a penalty incident where the player could of stayed on his feet but didn't.