General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650866#Comment_121650866

Bowen was rugby tackled to the ground in the box and they gave a free out.

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650866#Comment_121650866

Ahmedhodzic had two arms around Bowen and was pulling him to the ground while making no attempt to play the ball. The ball hit Bowen's hand only because he had been pulled to the ground. It should definitely have been a penalty and not a free kick for handball.

jacool

100% agree on the Bowen incident, but we all know this happens 10-20 times in every game at corner time. Until some ref grows a pair this will keep on occuring. The one today looks so clear as no one else is at it, but for me they are all identical. This is what is being coached now, not defending. One of the biggest blights on the game imo.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121651897#Comment_121651897

Unless you play for Man City, who had 2 penalties awarded 2 weeks in a row for defenders fouling on incoming crosses.

Fitz*

It's funny how people can be heavily influenced on their perception of a player based on a handful of games, or because of what troll social media accounts, and never let it change. There is still this massive perception from fans outside of Liverpool (and still some within the fanbase) that Darwin Nunez is this massive buffoon who can't finish, misses every chance etc. Whereas the reality is that he is a pure handful for defenders, contributes massively on & off the ball and is a real spearhead to the Liverpool attack that have scored the 2nd most goals in the PL this season, 1 behind Man City.

Shay Given was on his case last night on MOTD, saying that he "missed a load of chances" and had "a strange game". He had 3 shots (all on target), scored 2 goals and a hand in the other goals. But he has believed that earlier perception and relays it out on TV for more to pick up on and believe.

There was a stat going around yesterday comparing him to the Arsenal attackers, so I just said I'd compare Nunez to the similar aged players signed to the PL last summer, and some other existing players around the same age as him, and positionally, in terms of goals scored since the start of last season and moving to a new league etc. It's a bit niche when only comparing CF/LF players around the age of 24 so had to expand the horizon a bit to bring in more players. All numbers below are since the start of last season (might have left some similar player out by accident as these are just off the top of my head);

The Man City newboys are out in front with their output, but after that Nunez is one of the best. Remove Haaland, as he is a freak machine with his numbers and Nunez is actually very good. Nunez is not a penalty taker but a lot of the other players are.

When the age filter is removed, he does move down the list a bit as more experienced players push him down the list, along with those same players being their clubs talisman, and penalty takers too whereas Nunez is not.

He had be a bit hard on the eye on the ball sometimes, fair enough. Haaland is similar in that sense, but obviously there are differences with their finishing abilities. Nunez needs to improve on that side but he is getting there and his output is growing while his influence is growing even bigger. Firmino was not getting this much abuse for lack of goals in a free-scoring Liverpool as the front man, knitting things together for wide players to then have the space to score. Nunez is a different type of player but is a spearhead for the attack and still allowing the wide player to have the space to score. He occupies defenders much like Firmino did, or even Heskey in his 2001 pomp did. Heskey was all power and pace and action in those years, not the big target man joke role that social media made him out to be later on in his career. Or even Drogba when he joined Chelsea first. Drogba finished on 32G & 25A in his first 2 complete seasons. 6 goals more than Nunez who has half a season remaining and 9 assists which is a nice number higher, but again half a season remaining.

gucci

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121649701#Comment_121649701

Yep, money is the answer.

If i recall earlier in year or last season they mentioned on some podcast or other that the managers have are obliged to do something like 1 or 2 half time interviews per season. I would assume its a bit like a pre-arranged drugs test, they know what week or game its coming and are prepared!

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650526#Comment_121650526

I don't think there is any intention there just a clumsy landing. I don't want to see players sent off for those but there has to be consistency, Jones in the Spurs game didn't look as bad and he saw red. VAR didn't even look at it yesterday, slow it down make it look as worse as possible.

Hammer Archer

Referee and officials really lost the run of themselves in injury time in Bramall Lane yesterday. Brewster's tackle was horrific and how the linesman standing 2 yards away didn't tell the referee that it was a red is beyond me. Even when VAR brought the referee to the monitor, it took another few minutes before he finally made the red card decision. Coufal got the first yellow in the ruckus after the yellow before getting a second yellow for a foul a couple of minutes later. Meanwhile, Gustavo Hamer made two fouls (including giving away a penalty) after his yellow but didn't receive a second yellow.

For Sheffield United's penalty, neither McBurnie nor Areola got near the ball into the box but McBurnie leads with the elbow and busted open Areola's lip resulting in him needing to be substituted. But the referee and VAR decided that this warranted a penalty for Sheffield United. Ings was taken out by Foderingham earlier but got nothing (nor should he have but the lack of consistency is the issue). Then Bowen getting wrestled to the ground with a free given against him was just the icing on the top.

Liam O

Anyone involved in the initial yellow for Brewster should be stood down. Outrageous really.

West Ham were screwed. I don't know if the ref was on a homer or what. I wouldn't have given the penalty to SHU or the 2nd yellow to Coufal. Whatever happened with the Bowen decision at the end was insane too.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653487#Comment_121653487

I still think my fellow Liverpool fans are going to far the other way on the judgement of him.

What about the XG? Or the 10 game droughts? Or whether or not he is doing what we expected an 80m player would do?

You have to hand yesterday to him but I think we can be equally cautious to say the jury is still out.

It helps we have two worse players than him (on form anyway) in Diaz and Gakpo.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655164#Comment_121655164

He has 10 goals and 10 assists in the PL currently - the only other players to have managed that for Liverpool in the PL are Gerrard, Suarez and Salah.

No doubt I want him to improve his finishing - but he gets an awful lot of stick on that one area without looking at his overall contribution to forward play.

I think he’s a very good player who will become great if he can finish more consistently, but the criticism he gets makes him sound like one of the worst forwards in the league.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655164#Comment_121655164

I think he looks more comfortable on the LW, his play outside of goalscoring IMO is very underrated. He definitely is raw though far more than players his age, his ceiling is extremely high if he can nail the finishing. If Klopp is happy with him and we are winning games with him on the pitch, then we have to look past the simplistic view that he should be judged on goals.

OwaynOTT

He has ten goals and ten assists and is a hassle up front for defenders but he also has the work rate of Kuyt and firmino going back.

got a lovely block in yesterday and won the ball a few times too in his own half.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650808#Comment_121650808

Yeah, until the player in question goes and scores a last minute winner or equaliser against us.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655332#Comment_121655332

Exactly, I'm watching him every game, he is contributing and working his socks off all over the pitch. The match going fans absolutely love him

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655209#Comment_121655209

It's in all comps, he needs a bit more in the PL. Take away the two yesterday and he has only scored 3 since late August when he destroyed Newcastle.

I'm only saying he can neither be written off as a total flop nor classed a great signing just yet.

I'm all for the "we are a better team with him on the pitch" line but that's as much to do with Diaz and Gakpo.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655164#Comment_121655164

He has under performed his xG alright and as I said he does need to improve his finishing. I don't think that's up for debate, but I do have faith in that happening as he has shown glimpses of how good that can be both for and against Liverpool.

You mentioned that 10 game run, and he does need to be doing more there in terms of output. But Klopp persisted with him during that run because of the other stuff he was going in those games. The workrate, the creating space, there creating chances and the general chaos that then allows the other forwards to flourish as part of a cohesive unit. Klopp made reference to his work rate last season as a reason as to why he was not starting. Nunez improved that and is starting every week now. It's helped the team a lot.

One thing about him is he is never hiding. He is always involved in the game. The same cannot be said about some other high profile transfer forwards, who have lower or much worse goal scoring records.

He had that big miss against Luton but Liverpool won most other games in that run so it's not like he was cost Liverpool points every week. Would you rather a forward scoring goals in every game to draw or helping the team to wins with goals every second week?

Opposition teams fear Nunez now, as much as opposition fans / social media / some pundits like to belittle him and want you to think otherwise. Yes, his goalscoring numbers can and should improve, but his overall record is still good and he is helping the team to win games, with & without goals scored. There's a reason he is a fan favourite inside Anfield.

citytillidie

Game week 21 table

doc_17

I see Ceferan has come out and said a few things about City. I really hope that they are dealt with firmly, should they be found guilty (which they already have been by UEFA but City appealed to CAS and got off on a technicality).

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/jan/25/pep-guardiola-hits-back-at-ceferin-after-manchester-city-european-ban-remark

Mitch Connor

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1750830869638422719

Absolutely stunning news.

I know the Liverpool thread will be full of talk about it, rightly so, but I don't want to be wading in there with opposition fan thoughts on it.

whiterebel

Strange time to announce it

That is a big shock. Delighted obviously. He might do a Fergie and change his mind

klose

Sounds like he will take a break from management for a while by the sounds of his short interview he gave.

Mitch Connor

He must be absolutely drained to have taken this decision. I thought he'd be at Liverpool for years to come.

As has been discussed in this thread over the last week or so, very easy to argue he is the best manager around, or at least one of the two best.

It doesn't feel like a move 'forced' by how the board have or have not backed him. The rebuild of midfield in the summer looks to have been well done and the signings up front to replace Mane/Firminho (Jota, Nunez, Gakpo, Diaz) have all been good signings. So it does just seem like he needs to step away.

My assumption is Liverpool will go all out to get Alonso, seems the obvious choice. I had hoped United would go for him, but if he has the choice of the Liverpool (or Madrid) job he doesn't even given United a thought. I felt he could have been got this summer by United, but with Klopp going i'd be SHOCKED if Alonso isn't announced in the near future for Liverpool.

I'd also wonder if the Liverpool board are actually quite happy with the timing cause if maybe next summer Madrid rival them for Alonso. Not certain he'd chose Madrid over them, but they've basically a clear run at him this summer. And he is quite clearly the next big thing in management it seems. Maybe Michel at Girona, but Alonso is the clearer choice, imo.

Mitch Connor

It also feels like it will be fate he will sign off with a PL or CL.

and we are going to have to put up with that narrative building for the next 4 months!

Father Hernandez

As a rival fan, this is fantastic news he's leaving.

Top class manager/coach, probably the best around.

The PL will be worse off when he's gone.

Allows Pep a clean run at it unfortunately unless he goes himself.

DellyBelly

Surprised at the that news. Think the team will go all out to win another Premier League title for him now. I think if he was to finish with just one title considering the squad he's had would be seen as a bit of a failure. They really have something to aim for now

El Gato De Negocios

As a rival fan I'm delighted to see him go as he was the difference maker but the league will be worse off without him while Pep is still around.

Genuinely shocked but its understandable considering what he has given. Without doubt, a massive, massive blow to Liverpool.

nullzero

He's been there a long time by modern standards.

He's probably right to go if he's feeling he's not able for it, life's too short.

Last season wasn't great for them but he's got them on the right track now.

Pool fans will love him forever regardless, it was a long 30 year ls of waiting for a league title.

Maybe they'll convince him to stay like United did with Ferguson 20 years ago, a big bag of cash can cure a lot of ills.

HalloweenJack

Needed to make sure it wasn't the 1st of April. Feels really odd timing to announce it and that the board have known since November.

It's a shame. He was very entertaining and certainly made things competitive. Depending who they get in, City could be running away with the title for years to come on current form.

DellyBelly

..

The_Kew_Tour

Every Liverpool fan will want Eddie Howe.

El Gato De Negocios

To give him his due, he doesn't seem motivated by money, didn't he forego a salary bump on his most recent contract so other staff could get a raise. He already has more money than he could ever spend, will take some time out and probably end up managing Germany.

NITRO95

The EPL will be poorer without him but as a United fan I'm obviously delighted he's leaving Liverpool.

I expect he'll be named Germany manager after the Euros and I'll be stunned if he doesn't win at least 1 WC or Euros with the squad he'd have available to him as Germany NT coach.

y0ssar1an22

xabi alonso in me thinks

Father Hernandez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674812#Comment_121674812

Unless he's just completely burnt out, you'd hope there isn't something else at play here with illness to him or his family. Timing just seems off but maybe it simply is burnout.

Agree it seems like the German job will be his whenever he wants it.

El Gato De Negocios

When he left BD didn't it come at a really random time too ie not in the closed season? Or am I making that up?

rob316

The man IS Liverpool football club. What he did is so much more than trophies he won, he is the Shankly of the clubs recent history.

retalivity

Very rare a manager gets to leave a club on their own terms, was Fergie the last one?

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674767#Comment_121674767

I disagree. If it wasn't for him, you could have been looking at Man City going for 7 in-a-row, without any real competition.

This is a Liverpool club who have about 115 charges less than City, but who weren't that far off garnering as many points as Man City did throughout Klopp's reign.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674727#Comment_121674727

Only one of those available. He must be going to the national team.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674866#Comment_121674866

If United do move on from eth I wonder does that make neigelsmann a higher chance option for United.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674861#Comment_121674861

Agreed, I don’t think any Liverpool fans would remotely consider him a failure in any respect. To win everything he’s won with a team like City financially doped to the eyeballs is a phenomenal achievement.

bucketybuck

Timing wise, if they have known since November but have decided to announce it today, you have to imagine they are just getting it out ahead of a leak.

A journalist gets hold of the news somewhere and in the vein of future relations says that he can't sit on this story for long, but will wait a few days.

Liam O

All I know is that the next appointment means more.

SlickRic

Klopp has always said he doesn't want to grow too old doing this job. I don't think this has anything to do with the national team at all.

I'd say he genuinely feels that this is the right time to go - the club is in as good a shape as he could have it for leaving it to the next person, and this way he gets to leave relatively young without feeling like he left the club on a downturn.

he owes the club absolutely nothing. a master of his craft that simply came up slightly short in the league in an era that contained the greatest club side i believe the Premier League has ever seen. the trophy haul isn't what it quite deserves to be given his impact on the club, but that doesn't tell the whole story of what he did for Liverpool and the Premier League. The league was a dead league without him.

a legend, and genuinely irreplaceable.

eigrod

….

citytillidie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674767#Comment_121674767

Failure lol

Fitz*

A year ago, Klopp looked very very drained. He looked older than he was, and was under big pressure from external sources, media, rival fans etc. He gave a bold interview saying that he was confident in his abilities to turn the bad situation around.

A poor league campaign, finishing 5th just missing out on CL place and it was well known that his senior players were fading/leaving in the summer. There were questions about the ownership and whether they wanted to sell or not, the senior director of football he had worked with had left, his new DOF had left and there were other structural changes with senior figures there such as Ian Graham leaving. It would have been a very easy time to leave.

Instead, he stuck around and changed the team up, reinvigorated his players and team during a year of upheaval and has the club back top of the table, in a cup final and progressing in the other cup & European competition. He 'fixed' the team instead of walking out. He didn't want to leave when it was easy, even though he would still retain his status and legendary status. Instead determined to bring the club back up again. Get the foundations in place for a new team, and let the others settle into a new club around him as the pillar.

It says a lot about the man really, and the manager inside him too. What a legend.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674767#Comment_121674767

Klopp's reign, deemed a failure? Are you on some kind of narcotics?? If Liverpool don't win a match between now and the end of the season, he will still go down as one of their all time greats!

Imagine what he would have achieved if he didn't spend 9 years going up against the financially doped City with their 115 charges against them?