General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

AdamD

How in the world was that not a penalty for Liverpool

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876188#Comment_121876188

Firstly, on what grounds should a goal have been chalked off? Over 110 seconds had passed and both sides had taken possession and had opportunity to use the ball in that time frame. Yet it should be chalked off? They even took a corner (game restart, can't go back) and another 6 phases of play after that before it nestled in the net.

What about earlier in the game where a Harvey Elliott shot cannoned off Ryan Yates? The referee restarted by giving the ball to Forest’s goalkeeper, Matz Sels – it being outside Forest’s area and at Alexis Mac Allister’s feet when play stopped. Shouldn't the game have rolled all the way back to that point by your logic? For once, I applaud the ref for being consistent.

On another day, Yates mightve had several yellow cards accumulated before the Konate incident and it'd have been a moot point, but the ref only awarded yellow cards to the team with the fewest fouls and the most possession in that game. Swings and roundabouts. But hey, we can always roll back to the incorrect decision and play it right, eh? Maybe then, he'd have awarded a free kick for Yates kicking Konate in the face in the first place and foregone the drop ball?

Secondly, the incident today was reckless. Those kinds of high boots have been resulting in frees all season (apart from Yates on Konate). That aside, the ball rolls up Doku's upright arm and could've easily been given as a handball either. Yet nothing. Not much can be done about it now, these things happen. Personally, I'm less annoyed about it not being given by the ref than I am about the lack of VAR intervention. What did they see that made it OK? Is it safe behaviour to boot someone studs first in the chest, ball or no ball? Is it OK to handle the ball in the box after you've booted said someone, even if your hand is in an unnatural position? Why not suggest the ref review on the monitor if you aren't sure?

But I suppose it's OK not to bother today because in a game a week ago a drop ball decision was applied consistently for both teams, but some people didn't like it because one team scored nearly two minutes later.

Garzorico

Does it have to be a “clear and obvious error” still? If not then I can see why it wasn’t given.

bingobango12

Spurs fan so no skin in the game but pretty mind blowing how that wasn’t given at the end.

Fitz*

This thread is funny. Since the final whistle, I've read the following, amongst other things;

Liverpool fans frustrated at not receiving a penalty.

A Spurs fan saying that Liverpool shouldn't have had a penalty because of a drop ball decision they got a week ago.

A Man Utd fan saying that Man City consistently receive good luck on incidents like the one today.

Talk about a previous incident that Man City benefitted from.

A Villa fan telling us that Liverpool fans are a special breed and venomous because they talk about previous incidents.

fyfe79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876538#Comment_121876538

Great post. I'd like the anti-Liverpool crowd to read it, but I doubt it. I doubt Joe even read it!

"Firstly, it wasn't a penalty".... with zero words to back it up. Ok.

If I remember correctly, Joe is a Spurs supporter - a main beneficiary of blatantly wrong VAR calls this season.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876649#Comment_121876649

I refuse to believe a Liverpool fan would ever catalogue a list of their perceived wrongs experienced for future use.

fyfe79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876638#Comment_121876638

Fair play. A good counter to your fellow supporter Joe.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876700#Comment_121876700

I was shocked today when they were booing the other team for nothing more than having possession for a long time. 😁

The Rooster

#NotaCityFan 🤣

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876813#Comment_121876813

They've invented creating a hostile environment now.

McBain11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876330#Comment_121876330

If I could thank this post 10 times, I would. They are a horribly cynical team now and get away with a scandalous amount of yellows/reds. Guardiola's teams always had this part in them, but the past 3/4 years in particular, they've doubled down on this side of the game. How referees referee them with such leniency, I'll never know.

bdmc16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876188#Comment_121876188

Not only should the Forrest goal have stood but Forrest should have been a man down when we scored . Yates should have been sent off how that challenge on Konate and a free out.

I love the it’s shouldn’t have been a penalty followed by zero insight which is really consistent to the last time I recall seeing your comments post spurs vs Liverpool. Big Ange and spurs all changed your tune pretty quick when outrage about VAR didn’t suit yee.

McBain11

I'm at a loss how anyone can think the high boot incident at the end isn't a foul. We have all seen this exact incident a thousand times before, and it is a foul every single time. The only question is usually whether there's enough force or intent for the foul to also be a red card instead of just a yellow. In this case, it's clearly a foul and a yellow card.

Why are pundits, fans etc. making up completely new rules around how a high boot has been dealt with since forever?

I expect pgmol to issue another apology to Liverpool tomorrow. There should be a pgmol apology league table at the end of each season btw, another trophy clubs can try get their hands on.

Fitz*

I don't think there will be an apology. I don't like the whole apology stuff, they only happen when it's a fundamental break down in the VAR system. Like not awarding a goal when they were told to award the goal.

It's just incompetent refereeing making a bad decision at a crucial moment of the game. The same referee/VAR will probably award a penalty for the same incident in 3 weeks time, given the PL's referees history this season.

bdmc16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876345#Comment_121876345

The faux outrage abiut the Forest game is so strange . Konate was kicked in the head by a shocking tackle by Yates. It’s was free out at worst anyway, red card at best. Forrest had plenty of chances to clear there lines and lost fair and square.

Gas reading these people who clearly didn’t see That tackle or see the slow mo of tackle today where both times Liverpool players were caught by high studs once in chest today and Konate in the head!

McBain11

Oh I agree, the apology stuff is beyond the pale. It wouldn't surprise me if there was an apology though - they do it for all sorts of stuff since VAR came in. In this instance, it's a clear penalty and an awful decision by VAR not to get the referee to look at the monitor.

My personal favourite was a Spurs Chelsea game about 3/4 years ago, where iirc Lamela stamped on a Chelsea player, and VAR looked at it and said there's nothing to see there. A blatant red it should obviously have been. Unless I'm completely misremembering, pgmol publically apologised before the full time whistle via social media 😂

Chelsea/Spurs fans might clarify that one?

NITRO95

Where's the faux outrage? I merely said one game changing decision went your way one week and another game changing decision went against you the next week. That's football, it happens.

Once again anyone found not to be in lock step with all Liverpool fans is shouted down

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877002#Comment_121877002

This one comes to mind from last season. Mings absolutely clattered Gakpo in that game, free and yellow card but probably should have been a red.

Doku was clumsy and had far less force in it but it's still a foul.

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877002#Comment_121877002

Don't be. Anyone who doesn't think that is a fould doesn't understand the basics of the sport. Clueless.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877101#Comment_121877101

A penalty is a game changing decision, a drop ball 2 minutes before a goal is scored is not. IMO, they are not comparable.

A throw-in being given the wrong way or a goal kick given instead of a corner kick are small scale things that happened every other game. I wouldn't call them game changing decisions, unless a goal was scored directly from the goal/corner kick.

Yes, Liverpool got the drop ball when they shouldn't have. Like a throw in gets given in most games, and like how Forest got one in their favour within the same game. They scored 2 minutes later, it wasn't directly from it. Forest had reset multiple times. Man City didn't have a big penalty about and let off today.

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877127#Comment_121877127

Whether you personally think it or not they were both game changing decisions. That's just a fact because they both changed the games in which they were made.

Still waiting for someone to point out the faux outrage.

And fwiw, I expected Pool to get destroyed today and to their credit I thought they were the better team. All that is lost though when the game is boiled down to one decision by Liverpool fans.

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877104#Comment_121877104

Did Mings get the ball before the contact?

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877366#Comment_121877366

so If you get the ball you can do what you want to the other player? Does it matter if you get the ball before or after you get the player?

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877293#Comment_121877293

Facetious comparison, as well you know

McBain11

This entire conversation about the penalty is just so odd. It's clearly a foul, so it's clearly a penalty.

As TitianGerm pointed out above with another foul from a high boot, the only question is whether Doku should get a yellow or red after such a foul. It's a yellow and a foul.

Why are people pretending there is some sort of grey area around such a scenario - can anyone point to examples like this Doku situation that are regularly given as no foul? For the life of me, I can't think of a single one.

Doku has a duty of care not to put his boot in the chest of another player on a football pitch. It's as clear a foul as you'll see.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877496#Comment_121877496

https://twitter.com/e_NON_appare/status/1766894149511372934?t=YLsfN2knTLet9XxY8_Hj4g&s=19

The slowed down clip actually shows the ball hitting Mac Allisters chest first then down onto Doku foot at the same time he makes contact with Mac Allister chest.

Bleating Lamb

Some 'tackle' from Mc Ginn on Udogie today,could easily have broken his leg.Will be interesting to see the suspension he gets.

citytillidie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877104#Comment_121877104

Don't dare mention last season, I mean everyone was up in arms when Jota was only booked for the same thing last year V Spurs and was still on the pitch to score the winner.

Kiith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876649#Comment_121876649

So pretty much like every thread involving the big 6 🤣

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877002#Comment_121877002

Obviously you don't watch many games. If there's no force it's blown up for a foul about 40-50% of the time. Some referees do and some don't.

This certainly is not a rare occurrence where it wasn't deemed a foul. Didn't Nunez take a ball down with his foot about six feet in the air beside a defenders head and score a goal a couple of weeks ago?

8-10

For all the talk about the penalty I have to say I was still delighted at the final whistle. City were 2nd best that 2nd half but still hit the post and hit the crossbar in that half

Klopp was jubilant and upbeat after the game, but watch John Stones' interview with Sky and he says that the City team feel "deflated back in the dressing room"

Before the game the draw looks like a decent result for both teams, same at the end of the game. So for one team to feel deflated and the other buzzing is brilliant I think.

And the one thing that nobody seems to want to mention is the ATMOSPHERE. It was insane. That's what Anfield at it's best is and yesterday was the largest attendance at a league game at Anfield EVER.

I've been hugely critical of the atmosphere in the past 12 months and really since before COVID but holy moly it delivered yesterday. Ground was rocking like the Champions League games of old and really there was nowhere you'd rather be to watch a game. Elite clubs going blow for blow with everyone in the crowd living the moment

Still on a high since the game and I honestly can't remember a draw that has left this type of feeling walking out of the ground before

Normal service I'm sure will be returned when the crowd on Thursday night will stay quiet for 90mins against Sparta, but yesterday was hugely encouraging atmosphere-wise

McBain11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878258#Comment_121878258

I genuinely believe we now live in a world of make believe, where no matter what the evidence, people can just keep talking circular nonsense and never admit what the actual truth is.

Look at the video a few posts above. Forget your original position that it's not a foul 40-50% of the time.

Watch the video. Look at 2 players running for a breaking ball, one with the ridiculous notion of connecting with the ball with his foot 5/6 feet in the air, the other coming onto to it to head it. McAllister sees Doku is about to kick him in the face, so turns slightly. McAllister gets to the ball first, Doku kicks him in the upper chest. It's a foul. It's always been a foul and it will always be a foul.

Astonishing nonsense being spoken around this decision.

8-10

Last week the narrative was PGMOL et al were conspiring to make Liverpool win, "play until Liverpool score" was the cry from people seeing 8mins added on and then Darwin score after that

This week it's bending over backwards to defend the refs decisions

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878534#Comment_121878534

Why would I forget my position that it's only called as a foul less than half the time. As I said some referees call it, others don't. That's the be all and end all of the matter.

You are trying to claim that Liverpool are being badly treated which is ridiculous.

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878600#Comment_121878600

"The narrative" or "a narrative"?

Not everything revolves around what people think about Liverpool.

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878671#Comment_121878671

A narrative, from some people who had a narrative about the decision yesterday

pjohnson

I'm surprised van Dijk got man of the match he wasn't near the best. MacAllister was best imo, Quansah a close second (he made one potentially huge error but got away with it), and Endo was like a Japanese-Scouse version of Ji-Sung Park harrying De Bruyne.

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878730#Comment_121878730

Diaz too but his chances missed hurt him, but his level was top quality outside of finishing.

Ake and Walker played well for them (Ake hurt by the short backpass but quality outside of that) as well as their sub keeper who got out quickly to Diaz and Darwin, played well. De Bruyne's assist was also painfully good

I don't watch City much at all but neither Haaland nor Alvarez impressed me much yesterday at all considering they were up against the likes of Bradley, Quansah and Kelleher who have a combined 27 league appearances between the 3 of them! Despite being their 2nd season, each of Haaland and Alvarez has twice the amount of PL appearances individually than those 3 Liverpool players combined!

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878767#Comment_121878767

Haaland is there to put the ball in the net, he doesn't really add anything to the general play, he does the first part really well. Alvarez doesn't look a city quality player.

McBain11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878669#Comment_121878669

It's actually frightening if we are now at the stage where some people genuinely believe what Doku did yesterday does not constitute a foul.

As for your contention, that some referees call it, others don't. McGinn got sent off for Villa yesterday - people can argue the merit of the red card, nobody with half a brain would argue it wasn't a foul. If that ref said play on in the McGinn incident, you'd have folk like yourself talking utter rubbish about some referees call it, others don't. You are taking up a position of make believe - one where no refereeing decision is actually incorrect due to various shades of grey.

Your position is simply nonsense. The Doku incident yesterday is a foul. There is no grey area in such an incident. Anyone contending that there is a grey area are either acting dishonestly (as plenty of opposing fans would do and are doing), or some people simply haven't a clue about the laws of football.

IncognitoMan

Out of the 3 clubs City will be the most disappointed with that draw. They should be beating that Liverpool team put out yesterday.

Arsenal will be delighted.

Definitely a penalty btw, can't understand the arguments against it at all.

Suvarnabhumi

Has the incident being posted in real time on this thread? I just seen the slo-mo clip. I'm curious to see it, but I'm not going back through pages of nonsense to see it :D

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878730#Comment_121878730

De Bruyne looked genuinely rattled leaving the pitch, not sure if it was just being annoyed at being subbed or the thoughts of going for surgery to be removed from Endo's pocket today.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878958#Comment_121878958

My exact thoughts, City will never have had a better chance to get a win at Anfield. They have to be putting that Liverpool to the knife.

Slight concern for Pep however on how they got completely outplayed for the 2nd half by that Liverpool side, it was almost weird looking at a City team looked so frazzled and flustered. One thing that also struck me, was how physically tired all the City players looked.

Arsenal must be taking huge confidence from yesterday, because City looked anything but the invincible side we see so often at this time of the year.

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879009#Comment_121879009

They won there during Covid, and won well

Difference is the crowd which again was incredible yesterday, so loud!

Best chance in a long time to win in front of a crowd at Anfield which they haven't done in over 20 years

And even then it was Liverpool who looked like they'd left the points on the table, City were relieved not to lose i feel

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878730#Comment_121878730

Quansah was very good alright but VVD was brilliant. Don't forget that he was the only member of the first choice back 5 starting yesterday and was organizing 2 kids beside him too. Haaland barely had a kick because of VVD.

We've heard this a few times in recent years too. In 2018 when Liverpool started the season by winning 7 games from 9 and only conceding 3 goals, people were saying that Joe Gomez was the better CB. In 2019 on the run to the CL final and being neck & neck in the PL title race, people said that Joel Matip was the better CB then. In 2022 on the run to the CL final and being neck & neck in the PL title race, people said that Konate was the better CB then.

The common denominator? VVD was playing beside them. I dunno is it an attempt to downplay VVD's qualities or not but he has been at his peak level the last 5 or 6 weeks at least. He's having a brilliant season overall. He's in the running for POTY too, and maybe his performances in the last 6 weeks have shot him to the top. Playing with a different patched together defence every game, marshalling the whole team, keeping clean sheets, scoring goals, lifting a trophy, progressing in other cups.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878258#Comment_121878258

Do you have any clips of these high foots where one player connects with the other player that aren't given as a free. I genuinely can't recall any that aren't a free.

8-10

The slow motion shows Mac Allister touches the ball first onto Doku's foot

https://x.com/Matthew2023LFC/status/1767015583327879221?s=20

Dermot Gallagher went on Sky Ref Watch today and said the opposite multiple times and nobody challenged him on it

They really don't help themselves

Kiith

Does whether or not Doku got the ball even matter (he didn't)? Surely its a dangerous high foot no matter the outcome of the ball.