General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

bdmc16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991664#Comment_121991664

The amount effort and skewing of data you are desperately pulling here does not nothing but confirm how unexpected it was that Liverpool were top going into that game yesterday.

3rd favourites mean a solid CL place . 3rd came 14 behind last season and 19 points off season before so nowhere remotely aligns to being top ahead of treble winners and Arsenal going into yesterday game with 7-8 games left . It’s been absolute brilliant but totally unexpected title charge especially given the injuries, midfield rebuild and how bad we were last season.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992113#Comment_121992113

Can you explain how I have "skewed the data"?
The numbers are there. They don't lie. Saying "but Utd came 14 points behind" the season before means absolutely nothing to the odds. Odds are not drawn up based on the gap between places each season they are drawn up based on the teams.

Did Liverpool not win a league title with City finishing 19 points behind? Would you have said City were no hopers, no chancers the following season? No you wouldn't, because they had a squad well capable of challenging. So did Liverpool this season.

bdmc16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992144#Comment_121992144

again you skewing examples . Liverpool won the league by a record amount that season , it’s not the norm. Additionally the whole strikeforce and midfield bar Salah was different this season. It’s not remotely comparable

what you are saying is in contradiction to what every Liverpool fan, bookie and pundit was saying at start of season unfortunately. Not sure how that so hard to grasp but I’ll leave it there either way

pjohnson

Liverpool fans have been fixated on the underdog drum for years. You'd swear they had zero budget and a Sheffield United-esque squad the way they try to make out they are a plucky underdog.

eagle eye

Before the season started if you were asked how many teams have a chance of winning the league most would have said City, Liverpool and Arsenal

Obviously City miles ahead of the other two but no other team would be in the majority of minds as contenders.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992184#Comment_121992184

I haven't skewed anything though have I?

You said 3rd place was 14 points off 1st place last season. So the 3rd favourite team in betting could not possibly have been expected to mount a title challenge due to the points difference.

I've pointed out how that logic is daft as Man City finished 19 points off you lot and won it the following season.

You are jumping through hops here to try and mentally come up with some situation where you weren't the 2nd best placed team to challenge City at the start of the season and that's ACCORDING TO THE BOOKIES! Who you try and claim then to have also given you no hope

I accept if City had gone on a tear and put up 95-100 points then Liverpool and Arsenal would be way off the pace. But City haven't done that - they are on course to finish on sub 85 points.

So the 2nd and 3rd favourites are in the running. It's not hard to understand at all

Infoseeker1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990678#Comment_121990678

As a Pool fan I thought we had no chance of being in a title race; we badly needed a DM and we got Endo - I had absolutely no clue who he was, also there was no cover at RB as again all I knew was Bradley did well at Bolton; at CB we had Matip and Konate both of whom were very injury prone.

If I was offered top 4 & a domestic cup I would have been thrilled.

MacAllister for me has been the best signing in recent times that we have made; the age profile of the team is very good so even with Klopp gone my expectations for next season would be higher than this.

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992248#Comment_121992248

Exactly….. City strong favourites but if any teams had a chance of challenging them it would be one of Arsenal or Pool.

SlickRic

Liverpool are not massive underdogs.

But nobody outside of overly optimistic Liverpool fans thought they'd have a prayer of winning the league at the start of the campaign.

Infoseeker1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992325#Comment_121992325

I think that is likely to be the same for next season also; City will strengthen a lot in the summer, missing out on Paqueta was important for Arsenal & Liverpool this year as Nunes is nowhere near the level of player that he is.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992322#Comment_121992322

MacAllister has been a steal.

Great business. A massive upgrade in an area Liverpool were weakest in the year before.

The squad is in good shape alright and the youth team seems to be pushing through players who have been well prepared for first team football.

The only question mark for next season is who's in the dugout but unfortunately for everyone else the setup behind the scenes at Liverpool looks to be working well.

At this moment I wouldn't expect a massive drop off next season. The manager appointment would have to be a disaster for that to happen.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992352#Comment_121992352

The weak spot in the Liverpool squad was midfield, it was overhauled completely with 4 new players and the old guard went out. Our best MF last season was a 19 year old, who hasn't played a minute this season.

I thought we would comfortably get back into Top 4 but nowhere near City and a further strengthened Arsenal.

K-9

Hadn't been on this thread in ages, came in on February after Liverpool beat Brentford and people saying it was a great result for City and Arsenal because of all the injuries Liverpool got, Alisson, Jota, Trent etc. You'd think Liverpool were underdogs to be joint top in April all right.

golfball37

Don’t forget the plucky underdogs who had no defensive midfielder and no money bid 100m on one last summer

Royale with Cheese

Liverpool are not joint top. Does anyone outside the Liverpool fan base actually use this phrase?

K-9

Yes.

Liverpool are in 2nd.

K-9

Yep, but that only really matters come the last day of the season. To be exact they are second on goal difference, that is all. If somebody is joint 18th it doesn't really matter who's above who until the last day of the season.

jacool

These were the BBC predictions at the start of the season.

Averaging them out has Liverpool finishing in 4th place. Interestingly, this top 4 is in exactly the same order as predicted by the Racing Post experts.

Royale with Cheese

So you agree that they're actually second then?

K-9

Yep, but considering people on this thread were writing Liverpool off in February because of injuries, handing a big advantage to City and Arsenal, I'm saying joint top.

Liverpool had a great win in February against Brentford but according to this thread, City and Arsenal won that game because Liverpool were fecked. So yeah, joint top!

Sudden Valley

Liverpool are minus 9 on goal difference compared to Arsenal so that is a quite significant gap if both teams win all their remaining games. Given their performance in last five years I wouldn't say people are that surprised to see Liverpool challenging at this point, definitely less surprising than Arsenal challenging last season.

eh i dunno

Another two points deduction for Everton. Man city and Chelsea keep doing as you please

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990147#Comment_121990147

Mainoo is a talented young player, but he is nowhere close to being one of the best in the league.

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992590#Comment_121992590

I have read this about 5 times and I still dont understand the point.

Because people were writing off Liverpool you have decided they arent second?

golfball37

Spurs didn’t even get a vote but are on course to finish fourth. Yet somehow this will be a bottling whilst other teams out performing predictions have done magnificent!!

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992769#Comment_121992769

I agree, getting a 4th place trophy should be celebrated by Tottenham.

The Rooster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992658#Comment_121992658

Obviously the difference being that Everton and Forest have spent too much versus their income, which is clearly outlined in their financial statements provided to the Premier League. Whereas, City are living well within their means, but have falsely inflated their income through related party contracts, so much harder to prove.

Be interesting to see how they came up with 2 points. 3 points is the starting point for a breach. Another potential 3 for a "significant breach", but they have already been hit with that this season, so understandable that they don't get that again.

Forest got 2 points remission for co-operation, so maybe Everton weren't quite as co-operative, so only got 1 point remission. Or maybe something completely different.

slumdogemillionaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992896#Comment_121992896

Exactly, it is so tedious seeing people still conflating these cases

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992683#Comment_121992683

One of the best young players in the League

The Rooster

I had a flick through the Everton legal decision. Penalty made up as follows:

Breach = 3 points

Reasonably significant breach = +2

Double jeopardy = -2

Loss of revenue from Finch Farm sponsorship agreement (which could not have been foreseen) combined with early guilty plea = -1

Total = 2

There is also an outstanding accounting issue that relates to Everton capitalising certain costs, thus reducing their loss, which the PL disagreed with. The judgement has ignored this and has given Everton the benefit of the doubt for the moment. But it will be investigated and could result in the "Significant breach" element being increased and/or the double jeopardy reduction being decreased. If Everton lose that there could be (worst case) an additional penalty of up to 4 points, but more likely to be either 1 or 2.

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2024/04/08/eef5f482-4d3a-473a-9e38-26f995059377/Premier-League-v-Everton-Decision-FY23.pdf

pjohnson

Everton have been pretty comical tbf.

They spùnked out 32m this summer while not having a pot to pìss in. They cant have any complaints.

Deeper Blue

Still think Everton will stay up comfortably

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993203#Comment_121993203

Aye if they could pick a season where they were going to be deducted points, they couldn't of asked for better. Dyche doing a decent job in difficult circumstances.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993203#Comment_121993203

Well it does seem like the authorities want to punish these clubs just the right amount so that they don't get relegated because of the punishment.

It's a complete joke to be fair. Break the rules and the authorities are scared that their sanctions have any real consequences.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992524#Comment_121992524

wow spurs were no where on those predictions!

They got that wrong anyway.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992849#Comment_121992849

Yeah Ange has done really well in his first full year in the prem and introducing a completely different way of playing football compared with what was there, with a team he inherited, whilst losing our all time top goal scorer.
He’s probably in line for manager of the year if we get 4th.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993382#Comment_121993382

He should definitely get manager of the year. He plays a nice style of football although it died leave his defense exposed a bit.

Another thing that helps his team is his calm demeanor. Players rarely get upset or stressed when their manager is that calm all the time.

McFly85

Getting the CL in his first season after losing their star player would be a brilliant achievement. Only 11 points off top with a period of lengthy absences for key players too. Definitely should be in the running for manager of the year.

Will_I_Amnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993185#Comment_121993185

A. They didn't spend anything close to £32m last summer

B. They brought in £71m mainly with the sales of Kean and Iwobi plus £45m for Anthony Gordon the previous January

TitianGerm

Emery would be ahead of him for me. That Villa team weren't as good as Spurs and they've had plenty of injuries themselves.

With 8 games to go Spurs are currently on the same points they finished last season with. I'd imagine they've scored more goals now than last season and conceded less as well maybe? I would actually think the new keeper and VDV have made them more solid to build attacks from. Obviously missing Kane but now spreading goals around a lot more which is a positive.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993587#Comment_121993587

That’s an interesting take on things.

How long has Emry been in charge and had a chance to set things up at villa? IIRC it’s a full year ahead of Ange?
They still have their star striker playing for them don’t they?

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993611#Comment_121993611

Put it this way - how many times have Villa and Spurs been in Europe over the last 10 years?

Spurs had a poor season last year and are back on track now. Villa wouldn't be expected to be where they are and the turnaround since Emery came in is very impressive.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993644#Comment_121993644

The villa turn around is impressive over two seasons but not as impressive as the spurs turnaround in one season.

Pauliedragon

Evertons players must be really frustrated over this drama. They haven't known their real place on the league table since November and now there's another punishment and appeal. You have to wonder if its affecting their mindset on the pitch.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993728#Comment_121993728

18 months. He's only had one more transfer window than Ange.

Edit: actually very similar to Ange, Villa lost Grealish the summer before he joined didn't they? So both managers had to work without their most important players from the previous year in their first season at the clubs.

Deeper Blue

Emery is ahead of Postecoglou for me, considering where Villa were relatively recently under Gerrard

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993728#Comment_121993728

In fairness there was only 1 point between them last season and Spurs dont have European distraction.

I would guess if Arsenal or Pool win it then Arteta or Klopp will get it anyway.

K-9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992750#Comment_121992750

Nah, I hadn't clicked on the thread in ages, so it brought me to February and Liverpool beating Brentford. Apparently Liverpool didn't win that game, City and Arsenal did because Jota, Alison and Trent got injured.

Strange thread. Other teams winning games they aren't playing in and the idea of a team being joint top, enrages the pedants.

K-9

If Edwards keeps Luton up, should be manager of the season. Some would say but Forest and Everton deducted points, still would be a remarkable achievement.