General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229470#Comment_122229470

That Diaz incident did bring focus on cleaning up the VAR process. The PGMOL brought about a new structure about clearing the final decision after it, with a defined structure around the communication.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229487#Comment_122229487

And that’s what you want. I don’t think making arbitrary lines for reversing VAR decisions makes things more clear. If you set the rule as 5 seconds to stop a restarted play, then the world is outraged when the next botched VAR call only gets pulled after 6 seconds.

That kind of situation only leads to the kind of relaxed lazy approach that we saw in the Liverpool v Spurs game.

doc_17

For things like offside it’s not subjective. unless there’s someone pushing or pulling. I have no issue with them taking as long as as it takes to get it right. Think of all the time wasted listening to moaning after that Diaz decision!

doc_17

Hi Mods. Are we not allowed now at all to discuss Man City and money on this thread? Even if it relates to the money they are spending on players?

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229974#Comment_122229974

Mod: You can discuss Man City transfers here and the money they are spending on players in a footballing context. If it's directly related to the charges they are facing or questioning if the money they are spending on said players relating to financial rules etc, then the other thread is more appropriate.

As an example, "I see Man City/Club X are linked with player Y, it is a lot of money to be spending on a player like that but he would certainly bolster their midfield" would be appropriate for this thread.

"I see Man City/Club X are linked with player Y. I don't see how they can legitimately afford them/they are cheating/here's a link explaining how they get around the rules etc." is more appropriate to the other thread.

We understand deleting discussing is not ideal, however unfortunately since the move to Vanilla, we can no longer move individual posts to other threads. We hope you understand we're not trying to stifle the discussion, but encourage discussion in the appropriate place.

Kiith

After that Diaz vs Spurs decision, we got absolutely **** all from the refs for the entire season. So many 50/50 calls went against us, and its like the refs had it out for us for their **** up.

poppers

Either show the incident on the big screen and play audio between onfiled ref and var for all to hear like in Rugby or if thats not allowed in soccer incase fans will "riot" then Ref should go straight to the monitor and discuss whats happening in real time with the VAR lads and not be standing in the middle of the pitch pointing at his ear. the on field ref should have the final say either way.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230364#Comment_122230364

Absolute nonsense. That jota dive was given because of what happened imo. Wolves seemed to fare the worst overall imo.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230364#Comment_122230364

Never knew you were a Liverpool fan 😁

CSF

Funny how fans of nearly every team seem to think they fare poorly with referees.

doc_17

it’s like those stats about drivers…..something like 80% of drivers class themselves as above average drivers. And 84% think most drivers are below average.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231423#Comment_122231423

Konate not being sent off against everton was another one that blows this out of the water. Its just as if refs are inconsistent except in one or 2 things. Consistently fail to punish citys tactical fouls

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231423#Comment_122231423

Kiith is a Spurs fan… they're saying Spurs were ridden after that day.

I can't say I watched enough of their full matches after that to say if that was true or not - I would say that reffing was super inconsistent this year across the board, without seeming to be particularly biased in favor of anyone (with the possible exception of City who do seem to fairly consistently have the margins go their way). For Liverpool, I'd say some big things went their way (Konate, or the Forest winner), while others went against them (Doku pen, Arsenal pen etc).

For the most part the refs have just been poor, putting big spotlights on certain offences one week, and then ignoring them the next over and over. There's a few things, like hand balls, where we've basically no idea what is or isn't a foul now.

retalivity

Wolves were ridden raw all season, they ran away with the "fcuked over" cup

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230364#Comment_122230364

Hope the celebrations and schadenfreude of an ill gotten 3 points at the time were worth it.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233614#Comment_122233614

Did you enjoy when Liverpool got VAR decisions that won games?

y0ssar1an22

We're all the same. Love it when it goes for you and hate it when it goes against you.

Pgmol prob rely on that tribeilism to stifle much criticism. Every time one team is raging at a bad call there is another team who won't call it out cos it went in their favor that day.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233997#Comment_122233997

Correct

Then you have the endless media maelstrom over the inept PGMOL implementation and a minority of voices who still cling to the notion it may be scrapped. It all allows an escape for those who should be held responsible for the nonsensically bespoke elements of the EPL VAR system.

L'prof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231886#Comment_122231886

The refs are just poor. Far too many errors and the more you try to help them the worse it gets. I don’t think there’s any bias in it tbh. When there’s a lot of poor decisions being made then some will fare better than others

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234184#Comment_122234184

The same referees look very good in European games so you have to put it all down to the PGMOL.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234485#Comment_122234485

I think it’s the standards aswell. I think things took a real turn for the worse when referees were instructed to let more go a couple of seasons ago.

Pauliedragon

Maybe the refs are just **** themselves all the time cause they know the scrutiny is off the charts. Nervous people tend to make more mistakes.

Note. I'm not making excuses for them.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234536#Comment_122234536

'Let it Flow' - the Brexit mentality showing through, Great Britain knows best innit!

Badly need to head hunt both referees and someone to run them from overseas.

Fitz*

FWIW this is the 'table' of official VAR error for/against in the PL last season. Based on the findings of the Independent Key Match Incidents Panel that assess the referees, and all big decisions in all matches.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/insider/story/_/id/40150227/every-premier-league-var-error-ranking-winners-losers-referee-stats-2023-24

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122239437#Comment_122239437

Who comes up with this crap?

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122239659#Comment_122239659

I dunno, maybe the before mentioned Key Match Incidents Panel.

All well and good fans arguing about subjective decisions and selective memories. These are incorrect decisions from the season according to an independent referees assessor panel put in place by the PL.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122239885#Comment_122239885

I think the low quantity of them in itself kind of illustrates though that what they've actually admitted to is only the tip of the iceberg.

Hah at city's

doc_17

Guardian reporting that Tuchel met with Ratcliff and following that he has ruled himself out of the running to be the next Utd manager.

Fitz*

I don't understand how Man Utd are still so keen to get things like this out in the media, even still with the change at the top of the club. It's all the usual Man Utd affiliated journos that are running this story at the same time, not some red top clickbait types. Maybe Ratcliffe wants it that way, given how keen he is to stick his own face in front of a microphone and talk about what they are doing.

It's so very obvious that Man Utd are looking for a new manager, while not acting on their current one. Very much a state of limbo, and IMO it doesn't bode well for the 'new regime'.

I also read that Tuchel told them he could get Sancho back. Absolute nonsense in the papers as usual.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241003#Comment_122241003

So Ratcliffe didn't meet Tuchel about asking him to be the new manager of Man Utd and that's all made up?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241018#Comment_122241018

Yes. This is all from Oliver Kay, a known spoofer. Hasn't a clue about United.

golfball37

United were impressed with Tuchel when they met over the weekend. Not sure if it was reciprocated

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241018#Comment_122241018

Well I put up a couple of stories that were running at the same time and they all were nearly certain about what was happening at United and of course all different. All to do with the next manager and current one. I believe it was ETH staying and Poch getting the job and Southgate. Tuchel's name was being bandied about then too and McKenna, I even heard a ridiculous one about Zidane.

The guardian reporting Tuchel is out of the running for the Utd job after meeting Radcliffe.

Boards posters may have better contacts though!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/10/thomas-tuchel-manchester-united-out-of-running-talks-ratcliffe-manager

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241547#Comment_122241547

The article could have been typed better because if you read this, as I do

"Sir Jim Ratcliffe held exploratory discussions with Thomas Tuchel last week regarding potentially replacing Erik ten Hag as Manchester United’s manager but has ruled himself out of the job."

it implies that Jim has ruled himself out, not Thomas.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241547#Comment_122241547

Pretty sure Jackson is still banned from old Trafford.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241589#Comment_122241589

Lol. Yeah, well spotted.

Jim is out. Perhaps Tuchel still has a chance 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241589#Comment_122241589

It's the usual from the rags. One person writes an article and everyone copies.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241304#Comment_122241304

Yes. you posted a few links of stories from the Irish Mirror (citing Jason McAteer as a source), Sportmax & Teamtalk with every sort of clickbait rubbish. And then one link to a reputable source saying that Man Utd wanted to talk to Tuchel, as he is the number 1 target.

And guess which one happened. It was the reputable source.

It wasn't the clickbait stuff that a lot of United fans seem to get hung up on. This narrative amongst Man Utd fans that everything written about Man Utd in the media is wrong is weird, just because clickbait sites churn out nonsense. Not everything is wrong. It's pretty obvious that they are trying to get a new manager since before the FA Cup final.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242411#Comment_122242411

They are all crap. It's the offseason and even the media sites that normally are very good during the season are doing everything to keep their subscribers reading, watching etc,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242427#Comment_122242427

Yeah. You would think people would understand by now

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242511#Comment_122242511

United = fan engagement, both United fans and rival fans.

davemckenna25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242411#Comment_122242411

Why do you say its obvious... because the media says so?.

Because none of us actually know.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242658#Comment_122242658

Lots of fan complaints about how bad a season it was from ETH in terms of tactical set ups & performance. More engaged football people involved in the club will also have seen this, hence the new manager search.

Lots of fan complains around squad harmony and player fall outs. More engaged football people involved in the club will also have seen this, hence the new manager search.

More fall outs with players that a club will admit to caring about, and failing to keep this in-house.

Man Utd having a history of sacking managers in the last 15 years.

And most importantly a crap league season glossed over by a once off game. The talk of sacking him came about well before this once off game, and is what prompted the new manager search.

But if ye want to keep yer heads buried in the sand and that ETH is great and Man Utd definitely are not actively searching for a new manager and everything is all made up by the big bad nasty media, then be my guest. I'd actually love that to happen tbh.

https://giphy.com/gifs/head-in-sand-profit-accumulator-bury-JsUC9rI0VfyHi93MBU

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242770#Comment_122242770

The last 15 years? Tell me what manager did Utd sack in 2009? What manager did Utd sack in 2010? What manager did they sack in 2011? And what manager did they sack in 2012?

As for the rest of your post there's plenty of fan noise that want to keep ETH and plenty that want him sack. That's modern day football. Some would argue that Ratcliffe/INEOS meeting with Tuchel, McKenna, Frank is disgraceful and disrespectful. Some would argue its forward planning for potentially replacing ETH next summer. The point being that you will find arguments on every side of anything that does or doesn't happen and newspapers won't refuse ink and websites will seek clicks.

Rival fans being so engaged with Utd is nothing new tbf. It's just funny when you consider ETH has won more in his first two years than some managers managed in double that time in other top clubs.

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241589#Comment_122241589

I'm sorry but how can Jim rule himself out for Thomas..

ones-self can only be done by the person, not someone else …

I know you said the article is badly written, but I'm lost…

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242770#Comment_122242770

Who are these 'more engaged football people' you speak of?

It sounds like the crap articles you see in the mirror.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242877#Comment_122242877

Forgive me, it's less than 15 years. I got my years mixed up for when Moyes was given the boot.

In the last 12 years, it's been 5 long term managers sacked. Potentially 6 with ETH. All in, in that 12 year period, there's been 8 different managers in different guises. Carrick & Giggs were short term in fairness. That's a big turnover or managers and proves a history of changing quickly.

Forward planning? Lol I wouldn't believe that considering how reactionary some of the decision making has been in the past. OGS getting the job full time being one, and then sacking him again without a plan in place being another, hence why Carrick had to get the job. The club planning on signings but then ETH wanting a different player so going that route instead. Might be irrelevant but wasn't there a fan revolt against the club signing Arnautovic, and so the club pulled out? Reactionary again. ETH keeping his job past FA cup weekend is reactionary as he was set to be sacked that weekend.

IMO, Tuchel is a good fit. Cup manager suits a cup team. Southgate might actually work but everyone s***s on Southgate because of his stagnant style of football that he employs with a wealth of attacking talent. But that's international football. To me, Jim wants a British core to his club and so it's possible that he could try get a British manager.

Websites certainly won't refuse clicks when it comes to Man Utd is right. The thing is to click on the reputable people / sites, which goes over the head of many. I only listen to a handful of people when it comes to my own club, maybe 3/4/5 people/sources only. The example above of someone using made up websites as stories regarding Man Utd manager this summer. It's obvious which ones were clickbait from the outset. Everyone in their right mind should be ignoring them.

There is clearly made up stuff alright and then there is stuff that is happening and is being reported on. But just because the media says something does not make it untrue. It's not a blanket false. I remember a couple posters refusing to believe the Rashford going on the piss in Belfast story a few months ago for example. And it was mainly because of the narrative of 'big bad media make up stories about us'.

I remember this example well but a few summers ago, Talksport(!!!) said one Sunday morning (again!!!) that Man Utd wanted to sign Oxlade Chamberlain from Liverpool as he was cheap and he would help their HG quota. It was absolutely bull s**t of a highest order. But guess what. People fell for it and clicked on the 'story'. Later on that year, there was some sort of negative story about player unrest in the Man Utd camp. Leaked stories, cryptic Twitter posts, you know the sort. But, the Ox transfer was used as an example of why you shouldn't believe the story of player unrest because 'the media make stories up about us' and that whole narrative. 'Sure what would they know, they linked us to 80 players last summer and we signed 0' etc etc. all because they believed the Talksport crap. But used it as a reason to not believe a different story.

As I said above, I wouldn't believe most of the stories alright but there has been a consistent link with Tuchel for a couple months now, and it does look very much like there was a meeting some time recently and the interview didn't go well. But of course, lots refuse to believe it because the whole media is always all wrong using Jason McAteer said something else to the Irish Mirror as the example.