General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064714#Comment_121064714

Laughable yes but it could have been worse as both could actually been moved on.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064715#Comment_121064715

Oh yeah. I was surprised about the peno. It was a judgement call. I think it would've been fine to say it was a peno, but palace has one very similar v arsenal not given too that folks were adamant was a dive

omega man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064648#Comment_121064648

Catching flights maybe. Either way they’ll be sick!

AdamD

Thought Rice was very good throughout. Arteta has gotten far too cagey though, hasn't gotten his tactics right this season. Hojland just repeatedly fouled Gabriel when he came on and mostly got away with it, looks a handful though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064752#Comment_121064752

Maybe I suppose, I'll always remember my first united game went with friend and his father, losing with a few mins to go and then decide to leave,.now these weren't season ticket holders or anything, walking down the stairwells and united equalize I was sick and we were staying that night.

Haven't left early since myself and I'll never get the mentality surely in london you'd get a flight later to most places too so why book one so close to the end time?

SlickRic

Ten Hag comes across a fraud in these interviews.

'We controlled the game'

'It wasn't offside'

'Clear penalty on Hojlund'

'Clear foul on Evans for the goal'

He's mad, lads.

hynesie08

How long till the green and gold scarves make an appearance?

jacool

I think Arsenal deserved to win, and I know Rice got his goal, but if you ask me I think West Ham have unearthed a superstar in his replacement, Álvarez for "only" £35m. I didn't see Rice contribute much besides the goal.

Augme

People take about Howe gett8ng the sack and being in trouble. They lost to City, Liverpool and Brighton. And they really should have beaten Liverpool. United have beaten Wolves and Forest and were lucky against Wolves and arguably Forest. ETH should be in far more pressure than Howe but he won't be. There's no ambition at United anymore.

SlickRic

Neville now trying to justify Ten Hag's claim that the 'wrong angle' meant Garnacho was offside.

Him and Carragher need to be off their own team's games.

Bluebb993

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064656#Comment_121064656

3 cases this weekend of that excat goal. Maddison in an offside position for sons shot, and salah in the way for liverpools 1st today. But don't let that get in the way of giving out about city again

(I do think all 3 goals are intervering with play)

If Carlsberg did Sundays!

What a day of results 😎

Jinglejangle69

Are people still saying it wasn’t offside after the clarification😁😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064808#Comment_121064808

Don't think he was bad last year but this year he does seem to be like a lad making excuses, maybe showing signs of pressure or maybe he is just letting off steam hard to know.

He did say martial had a good game so maybe he just wasn't watching 😂

omega man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064844#Comment_121064844

Rice was good today and has arguably been arsenals best player so far this season.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064863#Comment_121064863

I think he sacrificed, implementing a style of play last year for glory and that has set the team back, still had some great cup runs but was it the right choice in the long run?

Style of play has been poor this season no doubt, but it was nicer to see us being able to play the ball around at the back even is we had no ideas how to transition once we got to midfield.

Feels like he is settling into having his favorites and won't drop rashford or Bruno because they can do something special, but they are annoyingly selfish players at times and maybe not the best in a good possession side.

Hard to know overall, definitely some signs of improvement today but ya big season ahead

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064875#Comment_121064875

Haven't seen today's. Maddisons was a mm decisions too.ozhea was quite possibly playing him on and he wasn't between ball and keeper and made zero impact ok what keeper was doing.

He made no effort to play or touch ball. Akanji did. They're very different decision. You can try to pretend they're similar but they were not remotely . Being in an offside position is different to being offside and interference

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064677#Comment_121064677

United were poor last week and beat Forest, swings and roundabouts.

Neither side looked assured today at all.

United have been absolutely shocking so far this season but still kept pace with Arsenal even with another two injuries picked up in the game.

I fully expected Arsenal to demolish United today but that simply didn't happen.

A galling loss as a United fan but there were improvements over the previous three games that were small positives to take away.

Arsenal have a handy one next in the league against Everton but if they produce the type of performance they put in today against Spurs you wouldn't see anything other than a Spurs victory there.

Ultimately looking at that game today you'd have to conclude that both Manchester United and Arsenal have gone backwards since last season.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064863#Comment_121064863

Not a hope they'll win a league or champions league with him in charge.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064915#Comment_121064915

If we've learned anything about Ten Hag in the last 12 months it's that he just lies non stop to the media.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064808#Comment_121064808

It was like when scouting, they were told to find the new Pep.

So they got a bloke with a bald head and a beard and unfortunately, that is where the comparison ends.

theoneeyedman

Evans was grappling with the Arsenal player (Jesus?) got the corner, and when he couldn't disentangle himself, he cries foul and says HE is being held, LOL.

How have United left themselves with a back 4 containing Evans, Maguire and AWB in a supposedly big game after ALL the money they've spent, it's comical really (and Lindeof started, he's not a lot better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065110#Comment_121065110

They are essentially our 5th and 6th choice cbs, Martinez, varane, shaw, linderoff all ahead 3 injured one was Ill so you get what you get.

I can't imagine other teams 5th and 6th would be much better.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065039#Comment_121065039

I wouldn't call this a lie from ETH, as it's opinion and he's the manager so his one is worth the most, but Sancho's rebuttal makes it sound like he thinks it's a lie.

https://twitter.com/UnitedStandMUFC/status/1698401172254605669?t=FZC2Q7n8nV5lJCWlVq0W9w&s=19.

https://twitter.com/Sanchooo10/status/1698417915429531942?t=lRJr9z9dnOlToEcLYA6Ljw&s=19

Now I do understand that some manager do tell small lies to the media in the interviews to protect their players and that's all fine. But this seems like the opposite.

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065110#Comment_121065110

AWB is fine, and is one of those Ten Hag has improved.

ShamoBuc

With the way the game went, then ETH saying why he dropped him but Sancho's statement now, is showing that things really are all over the place at United.

He was much sought after. A pretty penny was paid and an even prettier penny paid weekly for him and now he is dropped and clearly a very unhappy fella.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065358#Comment_121065358

Why do you say "now he is dropped", when Sancho hasn't been near a regular first team place since he joined?

Father Hernandez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065309#Comment_121065309

Whilst I'm not a fan of Antony at all, he would start everyday of the week for me ahead of Sancho.

Sancho has been a disaster of a signing for United given the transfer fee, salary and shows no signs of improving or repaying anything.

No one really knows the backstory here but Sancho has been given a huge amount of time away from the squad to look after himself, maybe he hasn't been able to and it's coming to fruition now but he's being paid a handsome sum of £250k per week to do sweet fúck all.

Another to the list of overpaid United signings who turn out to be muck.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065404#Comment_121065404

The rationale/reasoning behind him being dropped from the squad.

For him to come out with his statement the way he did, stating not to believe everything you read.

I'm pretty sure he hasn't come out like that before, considering as you say he hasn't been near a regular first team player since he joined - which in itslef is a quandry given what was paid for him and the very high level of wages he earns.

He is clearly an unhappy camper.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065233#Comment_121065233

Aha, another player on his way to freeze out and alienation I see, kinda would have been better to do this while the window was still open everywhere and could have maybe got some kind of money in.

I wouldn't get hung up on the word lie from my post, probably not the best word - I should have just said if there's one thing we've leaned it's to completely ignore anything he says to the media.

SlickRic

Did Neville say the ownership might be affecting the players because if new owners come, they'll be worried that Utd might spend money?

Now, the Glazers are bad owners, obviously.

But this narrative that gets peddled that Utd don't spend money continues to be one of the maddest things that gets entertained.

Utd literally can't get rid of Maguire because Utd are spending more on him than any other club will. And we all know about many of their signings - the in-the-news Sancho included.

Blame the Glazers for hiring people who are crap at their jobs - particularly at recruitment over the years. But stop coming at us with the 'we don't spend money' nonsense.

StringerBell

Does Gary Neville have credibility?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065309#Comment_121065309

Sancho has done absolutely nothing in any game under TH since he has been at the club he has had plenty of opportunities now himself at this stage.

Anothy has been better again this season, by far out hardest working attacking player and the best ball progressor this season, end product still needs much improvement but even his dribbling is better.

You'd say something if Sancho looked class when he plays but he looks as bad as anyone usually

Neville was going in about the takeover creating a toxic environment at the club as a whole, and was going on about people being worried about losing there jobs but I thought he meant general workers.

He did repeat he knows a certain amount of times but not really sure what his point was.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065520#Comment_121065520

The blame is always put on the Glazers but United have spent big and offered very big wages to players.

It is a bit of a cop out to Always blame them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065622#Comment_121065622

Na he is definitely better this season and has shown much more then Sancho in his time at the club.

Still not worth 80 million of course, but hopefully he continues to settle and continue to improve.

But whatever about anything, Sancho is paid a lot of money to be professional which it's sounds like he isn't being.

This statement is ridiculous, it's childish and sounds a little paranoid and invites a **** ton of pressure and spectaculation.

Father Hernandez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065623#Comment_121065623

Therein lies one of the main issues. They've sent truck loads of money with nothing to show for it, massively inflated transfers fees and salaries that make it impossible to sell on. Players signed with little to no due diligence done on them due to the people in power at the club.

Chelsea have spent a billion in the past 12 months and arguably look worse. Money isn't the issue.

The common denominator in the past 10 years of failure have been the Glazer family who put the club up for sale nearly 12 months ago with little progress as well as the Greenwood situation the past couple of weeks. Everything about the club right now is rotten and that has been allowed to fester under the stewardship. They are 100% to blame here.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065593#Comment_121065593

Why is he referenced then? Just ignore him if he has no credibility

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065623#Comment_121065623

I mean it is and it isn't the buck stops with the them for everything, money and lots of money has been spent and most of it badly, mainly because they have refused to invest in a DOF who knows the Business and let Woodward have free reign for years, still making similar but lesser mistakes with Arnold.

If they have invested 1% of the money wasted on transfers in proper transfer structures for the club they would have spent a hell of a lot less and probably won a lot more or at least competed.

They have run the business absolutely as bad as you could really, people who want to defend them focus on the money spent, but money spent does not mean money spent well.

And there penny pinching and control over decision making has cost them and the club hugely

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065652#Comment_121065652

At least Antony puts effort in most of the time. The same can't be said of Sancho.

DAngelo Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065513#Comment_121065513

100% this lazy narrative that man United don't spend money needs to be called out at every opportunity ETH alone is at half a billion.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065620#Comment_121065620

Yea, Gazza is3a voice of the working man alright 🙄.

There is certainly something off the field with Sancho. It was rumored that the reason he was shipped out of City to Germany in the first place was because of 'off the field activities' shall we say, and to get him away from the company he was keeping. Now he's back and some of these rumours are beginning to circulate again, might be BS but certainly for all his talent he's not delivering, and while he's done well to get his big transfer to United, long term it was the last club he should be at. They are a mess, a circus, and any lad that's easy distracted needs a better structure around him. Pity, cause he's a talented kid.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065709#Comment_121065709

It goes hand in hand with the lazy narrative that united have spend gazillions on players they have no excuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065756#Comment_121065756

As in he was hanging with a bad crowd like Ravek Morison style or he was doing bad stuff himself?

That's the thing anytime he plays you see these glimpses of serious talent but obviously no where near enough.

I know people's will say it was only Germany but his numbers and underlying numbers were amazing for multiple years too.

He has brought most of this on himself though like I heard ten hags thing earlier and didn't really think much of it, a bad week for Sancho needs to work harder not great but big deal. But Jesus his statement has made it 100 times worse.

Does look like the end of him at the club now although he ain't getting them wages anywhere else now either and probably not even 40% of them so maybe he hangs around like martial

giveitholly

Just watching MOTD and that was poor goalkeeping for the Rice goal

StringerBell

Was even worse defending. 3 v 1 on the back post, joke shop.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065825#Comment_121065825

It took a deflection from about 6 yards out, what's he going to do.the goalkeeper was way worse on the third goal

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065683#Comment_121065683

This ties in with an interesting thing I read during the week - about 70% of effective recruitment is actually making sure you are not signing the wrong player. Most players are actually very good but they might not suit your club, manager, league, playing style etc. They won't settle or be effective in your team while they can start in another.

There are lots of avenues where a player can be signed to a new club, for example -

• new manager working with the player previously
• Scout recommendation
• Data analysis
• DOF
• Agent favours
• Owner likes him
• Board member likes him

To avoid all of these clashing with each other and battling to be the 'winner', instead of having the best recruitment for the club to succeed, you need a proper DOF structure with buy in from all parties.

Man United don't have that DOF structure, as you mentioned, and they don't have that final voice. There are many voices instead. There's no clear vision, there are many visions. There has been many contradictory voices at logger heads against each other and the wrong voices win at the wrong times. No cohesion. No long term planning.

I wrote in the Utd thread during the week about every manager being allowed to sign their own players and they a lot don't suit the club, or style going forwards. But at the same time as these managers buying players, there was also Ed Woodward buying players and these didn't mix together well as managers are left with unwanted expensive players, or they sign players for their playing style and not the club's style and not the inevitable replacement managers style. Charging style from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho to OGS to ETH with no consistency.

There was lots of talk last summer of how the Man Utd recruitment team wanted to sign Pau Torres. ETH refused it and signed Martinez instead. Man Utd had just signed Sancho to play RW (who decided on that I don't know but it could have been any of the above listed entities) but ETH signed Antony to play RW. That's not total buy-in in terms of recruitment.

There was definitely agents in the ear of Woodward to sign certain players and he did not know to avoid that signing. It was well known at the time that Real Madrid wanted to sell Di Maria but he didn't want to leave. Woodward signed him anyways, and Falcao too, when Falcao was not needed. Why? Vanity. An effective DOF avoids these type of signings.

I wrote a few weeks back in the Liverpool thread (so I can say this without being told it's hindsight cos of today etc) that even though Liverpool fans can be frustrated at their lack of signings, they generally have avoided big mistakes in recruitment. They pulled out of any sort of Pepe deal very early, much to the annoyance of many fans. And similarly with Sancho. But it wasn't always this way. Brendan Rodgers went to town on Edwards and had a lovely hit piece on him in the papers. There is the famous incident where Rodgers was refusing to allow Liverpool sign Firmino, unless he got Benteke too. Edwards was furious about it but the club backed him and Rodgers was sacked the following season. Klopp have Edwards his full trust and reaped the rewards. Klopp liked Brandt but Edwards convinced him to sign Salah for one example. Klopp has too much say in recruitment now IMO, and that that's for a different conversation.

Man City are one of the best at 'pulling out ' of signing the wrong players. Maguire, Fred, Jorginho, Cucurella. All publicly courted by Man City, and bids placed iirc, but all were left when they got to a certain fee.

Have Man Utd signed the wrong players in people like Sancho? Possibly. But Woodward (I'm assuming) won the battle and brought him in. His friendship with Rashford made for a great social media announcement and that opportunity couldn't be passed. #sancHOME wasn't it? Just like #pogBACK it sounds like a couple of bad eggs there and should have been avoided. Effective recruitment.

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065302#Comment_121065302

he improved him from a very low base. He’s slow, poor on the ball, slides in too often and is a very poor reader on the game. But then again, they only paid £50m for him.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065909#Comment_121065909

Shocking that that fee seems reasonable for a squad player two years later ,it was big at the time.