General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

AidoEirE · 04-09-2023 1:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065909#Comment_121065909

None of that is true to be fair except the price tag.

doc_17 · 04-09-2023 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066144#Comment_121066144

I’m comparing him to a Walker, Trippier, White, Trent. He is a decent squad player, but an upgrade would have been sought had Utd not had other issues to address.

AdamD · 04-09-2023 9:38am

He's a good one on one defender but you knew Arsenal were going to own that side of the pitch once he was picked as he doesn't push up and isn't great on the ball.

SlickRic · 04-09-2023 9:59am

Ten Hag should be supported in the Sancho issue. The lad got 3 months off, was integrated when ready, and was dealt with, seemingly, with nothing but respect and understanding.

But on the game, I'd honestly be worried about Ten Hag. His excuses after this game were mental. Like, almost unhinged. His ability to be one-eyed in his analysis is unhelpful. There is creating a 'siege mentality', and then there's just coming across as nuts. He's stepping too close to the latter in his post match spiels.

Oranage2 · 04-09-2023 10:38am

Am I the only one who has serious questions around the united goalkeeper's shot stopping?

Necro · 04-09-2023 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066867#Comment_121066867

I know the Rice goal took a mad deflection but I always feel getting beat at your near post as a keeper isn't great. The Jesus goal was just different gravy though, wouldn't fault him much there.

Liam O · 04-09-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066867#Comment_121066867

Well I think we've seen Heaton do well in the past with shot stopping, Bayindir I've not seen much of. Onana had a better save % than Allison and Ederson last season.

What are your "serious questions"?

SlickRic · 04-09-2023 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066867#Comment_121066867

You're not.

It's not the primary reason he was bought. His feet are more important to how Ten Hag would ideally like to play. And not every keeper is prime Alisson or Neuer who can do both.

Onana will let in stuff the best shot stoppers won't. But the idea is that he makes the team better at progressing the ball.

Ottoman_1000 · 04-09-2023 12:38pm

Only getting to catch up on MOTD this morning after the weekends action. It was great to see an Irish lad scoring a hat trick again, I was starting to think we would never see the likes again! One stat I found mad though, they revealed the that Ferguson is the 6th youngest age for scoring a premier league hattrick on 18 years and 306 days...Michael Owen takes up 3 of the top 5 places, he had 3 premier league hat tricks before his 19th birthday, mental.!!!

04-09-2023 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067433#Comment_121067433

Easy to forget how good Owen was when he ‘burst on the scene’, the hat trick against Newcastle and that goal against Argentina stand out.

nullzero · 04-09-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066659#Comment_121066659

Jesus H Christ, every manager at a major club spouts the same nonsense after a defeat.

Klopp whinged about the wind blowing in the wrong direction once, Wenger famously "didn't see the incident", Ferguson would simply walk away when he didn't like the questions being asked, Trapatoni was stone mad almost all the time. All successful managers none of whomthave ever given anything resembling an honest appraisal of their own teams performances after a game.

Managers can be criticised for a lot of things but yesterday whatever the hell Ten Hag has been trying and failing to do this season began to click, his delusional post match interview isn't a cause for concern because managers have been talking waffle after games since the first camera was pointed at them decades ago.

I know you're pretty level headed for the most part and don't typically stick the boot in for rivalry reasons, but to be honest Manchester United have so many things going wrong at virtually every level of the club there's really no need to invent other issues that don't exist to be able to point and laugh as a rival fan.

Manchester United is a husk of a club where staff don't even have basic job security at the very foundational levels of the business and that's an issue reflected throughout the club up to and including the playing staff.

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 2:23pm

Whatever about Eth's comments on the Hojlund/Gabriel incident (i think it a penalty) or Gabriel stopping Evans from getting out to Rice (its debatable, both at it), his comments about the Garnacho offside infuriate. The system accounts for angle. Everyone should know it. Unless there is a player the VAR just hasn't seen, which has happened, if it says they are off, they are off.

Overall I thought United probably did enough to get a draw. Disappointing we couldn't snatch it with a late winner, never mind conceding two and losing it!

Taking Varane, Martinez, Shaw and Mount out of the starting line up makes things difficult. Hojlund and Amrabat will make a difference. Mainoo too, imo, when he comes back.

Ottoman_1000 · 04-09-2023 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067979#Comment_121067979

Same, although I hate the fine margins of offsides these days, I hate it even more when people don't seem to understand how it actually works!

SlickRic · 04-09-2023 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067886#Comment_121067886

The difference I found with ETH is that he was adamant that every decision went against him - and he chose to list them without prompting. Even the offside, which i found particularly mad. He doesn't normally come across like that. He seemed genuinely hard done by, and I genuinely felt it was a weird look. It came across as straw clutching.

I think he's frustrated. I think his recruitment team screwed him. He wanted the likes of Amrabat quicker. He has annoying injuries to deal with. He still has Maguire. He still had to play Martial. And then he has a painful last minute loss to deal with, and the frustrations cut loose in the form of moaning a bit too much about everything.

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 3:41pm

I wonder if he is trying to pressure refs. Last season United got nothing from the refs after klopp whinged about us getting decisions.

Any United fan will tell you they reckon we'll get punished for the wolves game, the onana penalty that wasn't.

Against spurs we were denied a clear and obvious penalty for handball.

Imo United have to make comments on these decisions because the media love to put pressure on the refs for giving us calls. Look at the days of coverage of onana. The coverage of the rashford penalty vs forest. If United don't comment on it, no one in the media will

04-09-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068428#Comment_121068428

I'd say the second part of your ffirst paragraph is wildly inaccurate. That's been kind tbh.

I could whinge about similar calls about Liverpool this season but it'd be labelled as delusional.

In reality the standard of reffing is poor accross the board.

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 3:55pm

United had the third least amount of penalties last season. The week after klopp whinged about us getting penalties we ere denied a clear cut penalty. And then it kept on happening.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068445#Comment_121068445

brevity · 04-09-2023 4:12pm

Antony now in a spot of bother after allegedly assaulting his girlfriend.

There are some pictures on Reddit of her hands...I haven't seen them but juding by the comments they are not for the faint of heart

Ottoman_1000 · 04-09-2023 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068497#Comment_121068497

so you reckon because Klopp whinged about UTD getting penalties, refs have decided to take Klopp's opinion on board. If it was that straight forward, why wouldn’t Klopp just whinge about the lack of penalties Liverpool received last season and change their fortunes? I think we got 3 maybe 4 all year!

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068594#Comment_121068594

Yes, I think refs are swayed by public opinion and are afraid to make calls that will see them attacked in the press all week. So managers putting pressure on the ref, feeding the media love of crapping on them, has a real world impact on the pitch, imo.

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068577#Comment_121068577

Will be interesting to see if United suspend him as they did Greenwood or play him every week as arsenal do with partey.

I suspect they hope the media ignore it as they do partey so they can continue to play him. If the Greenwood 'evidence' wasn't so public they probably would have continued to play him.

nullzero · 04-09-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068307#Comment_121068307

A manager hasn't been born that didn't use post match interviews as an opportunity to make a clown of themselves at some point.

04-09-2023 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068497#Comment_121068497

Cool. So Klopp has that much power over refs. Incredible.

04-09-2023 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068577#Comment_121068577

That was doing the rounds a few weeks ago. Is it officialy out there now?

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068675#Comment_121068675

So you don't think anything a manager says has any impact on refs. Incredible.

BillyHasMates · 04-09-2023 4:38pm

I don't buy in to the conspiracy level stuff aimed at referees and whether they are giving favourable / unfavourable decisions consistently to certain teams on a somewhat conscientious level. Fans of clubs who are involved in high stakes games, whether it be a knockout game or a game involving teams in a title challenge, will always focus on and react more strongly to decisions made in those games. If they think there is a pattern then cry conspiracy. I think what VAR has shown, much to everyone's frustration, is that the standard of refereeing in the EPL is extremely poor and wildly inconsistent from one referee to another. The referees are simply being exposed now to far more scrutiny.

~Rebel~ · 04-09-2023 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068577#Comment_121068577

Is this the existing domestic abuse case from his ex-wife, or a new one with a present girlfriend?

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068699#Comment_121068699

The reffing team that didn't give Wolves a penalty were hammered by the media for a week and dropped from PL games the following match day.

Did the reffing team that didn't give United a penalty for the Romero hand ball receive the same treatment? Or missed Pellestri getting clipped from behind in the box in the same match?

I can't believe people don't think refs are swayed at all by public discourse. Guess y'll don't feel home crowds can yield any pressure either. Wonder if these same people think Fergie never had any sway over a ref either....

04-09-2023 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068688#Comment_121068688

If you're going to imply a conspiracy put the hard cold facts down on paper.

Without data it's meaningless.

I see people whinging in the Liverpool thread about refs this season. Does that mean Klopp is now not being listened to by refs? How do you explain that one?

Or, is it simply not a conspiracy and the refs are just shockingly bad for all teams?

Mitch Connor · 04-09-2023 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068718#Comment_121068718

I think it is present girl friend, but didn't have any idea about there being two pending/open cases.

United really great at picking players with the right attitude. Christ. Just burn the club to the ground.

04-09-2023 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068718#Comment_121068718

Ex I think. Alleged headbutt

Osmosis Jones · 04-09-2023 5:06pm

Can't stand Sky taking the pìss out of fans leaving early when they schedule games where your only options are leave early or wait until 6am for a train. Maybe not the case for yesterday but they're always at it.

eigrod · 04-09-2023 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068497#Comment_121068497

Man United were awarded 3 penalties last season. 10 teams were awarded either 3 or 4 penalties last season, so 3 wasn’t really an outlier.

Contrary to some narratives (not saying its yours) , most of the top 10 positions for penalties awarded are not traditionally “big” clubs

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2022

djan · 04-09-2023 6:11pm

I don't think you can compare penalties awarded across teams. There's so many variables such as possession spent in opposition box and type of players involved in incidents.

I agree that the refereeing errors tend to balance themselves out. But the issue with that is there's a big difference in missing out on a penalty when 3-0 up or in another game when it's all square in thhr last minute.

Fitz* · 04-09-2023 6:17pm

Was it not over 2 years ago that Klopp spoke about Man Utd's penalties? During the COVID behind closed doors season when OGS was in charge. I don't remember any last season.

He made comments of that ilk (basically Man Utd had received more penalties in 2 season than he Liverpool had received in his 5 seasons) in January 2021 after a loss to Southampton and Liverpool were controversially not given a late penalty to rescue a point. The two clubs played each other later in January 2021.

Before the comments that season, Man Utd received 6 penalties in 16 games. After the comments, they received 5 penalties in 22 games. – not particularly convincing as evidence of “a big, big difference” as OGS called it at the time.

It was a case of a manager being angry at not being given a decision during the game. It can't be used as an excuse nearly 3 years later IMO. Unless there was comments last year but I can't remember any right now.

BillyHasMates · 04-09-2023 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068731#Comment_121068731

I don't think refs are influenced by managers, no. I am saying this in response to your comments about Klopp as if he suddenly influenced refs in to not giving Utd as many penalties. You are using a stat that Utd have been awarded less penalties since Klopp's comments and have come to your own conclusion that the commemts he made must be the cause, ignoring other realistic possible causes.

I do think the amount of media scrutiny refs are under now from broadcasters like Sky with the inclusion of former refs giving opinions etc can influence refs in terms of I believe it must hit their confidence and introduce more doubt and uncertainty into their decision making. Everything they do now is micro analysed and debated more than ever. It allows fans to compare decisions to similar incidents in other games where a different decision might have been made and cry about the unfairness of it all. Fans weigh up the favourable decisions and unfavourable decisions they get over time and seek a balance. If they don't think it's there then it's a grand conspiracy.

As I said I think the standards are just poor, highlighted by the inconsistent decisions in games irrespective of what teams are playing.

Garzorico · 04-09-2023 8:21pm

I was just watching a review of all the VAR decisions from the weekend on Sky with Dermot Gallagher. Is he the head of the refs union of something? Anyhoo, its not surprising that VAR doesn’t work. I’d say 9 out of 10 of the decisions they discussed they were obviously incorrect (in my view) and there was loads of subjectivity i.e. sure the keeper wouldn’t have got it anyway (Liverpool goal) and he starts fouling him outside the box lark (Everton) until he took him down inside the box! Ward-Prowse handball v Luton (arms in a natural position, they were not in a natural position he’s not a duck) The Arsenal defenders rugby tackle on the Utd player was my favourite. Ah sure it’s a contact sport! Gallagher said the City and Liverpool goals weren’t offside - the players (Akanji and Salah I think) were literally standing in front of the keeper interferefing with play. Ridiculous decisions and ridiculous interpretations. It smacks of protecting the referees on the pitch rather than stamping out foul play. There needs to be a shift in the power balance away from the refs/VAR to I don’t know who/what because it’s obvious that the refs/VAR don’t have any authority, they are petrified of making a mistake and this in turn is making them make mistakes. Maybe they should hire lawyers to be VAR.

omega man · 04-09-2023 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069525#Comment_121069525

I watched ref watch this morning with Gallagher and thought he explained the decisions quite well and more or less with full agreement from the pundits. He even admitted the City goal was a terrible call by VAR, which it obviously was. The fact you described one instance in Arsenal v Utd as a “rugby tackle” doesn’t help your argument if I’m honest! Utd fan?

I will admit I was confused with the Luton penalty call. Thought it was a clear pen myself.

pjohnson · 04-09-2023 8:44pm

christ

The_Kew_Tour · 04-09-2023 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066867#Comment_121066867

Ya must say I thought he could have done bit better alright.

One of those you forgive once domtbsee it too often

Weepsie · 04-09-2023 9:46pm

As a utd fan, I wish all other united fans would bore off. Var and refs are not out to get the team. **** sake.

Whatever about being disliked for being the dominant team, were a sack of moany shites now that can't accept the limitations of our star players and have to point fingers of blame at outside factors while ignoring that we get away with a **** load