General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

pavb2

I think out of all the grounds I’ve been to given its history and success Old Trafford was the one I was most disappointed in, outside looked ok but inside was cramped and all the steelwork just seemed rusty. The Emirates, Newcastle, Spurs, West Ham, Anfield even the Etihad are much better.

DAngelo Bailey

https://twitter.com/JohnBrewin_/status/1699703016939512318?t=pJ5lsvau8E4da59BWx6Ctw&s=19

Jesus Christ do Manchester United not employ anyone who can use Google??

~Rebel~

Bloody hell... the lad himself must've thought it was a wind-up when he got the call!

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080634#Comment_121080634

Nothing to see here, move along. Culture there is fine, don't say anything, move along please.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081227#Comment_121081227

Oh grow up.

Club captain assaults a DJ. Star striker racially abuses fellow professional, bites 2 others. Player spits on fans. Player assaults girlfriend in public. Young starlet winger charged with assault of 27 year old woman. Winger arrested for domestic disturbance. Brazil forward found intoxicated behind wheel of range rover.

This is all from the one club in relatively recent times. So if you're going to play that card have a look at your own house first

~Rebel~

Game's full of ****, but it should be possible to talk about some specific band of **** when the conversation is relevant, without needing to address all of football's **** each and every time.

Also, no-one here is responsible for the going's on "in their own house" for better or worse.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081577#Comment_121081577

I don't think that's a reasonable position tbh.

Raising that type of topic in a general discussion thread for the premier league is like a throwback to the bad old days of this forum.

The entire reason for raising such topics is; "this club I don't like are awful". It's not really relevant and let's face it if a rival fan arrived in a club superthread discussing that type of thing it wouldn't last long.

A separate thread for footballers and clubs being scumbags could be a solution but it just becomes a flame war over time.

In essence there isn't much of a positive impact on how this place works by consistently calling out things at one club, because every club has skeletons in its closet and they will be aired when this type of thing keeps coming up.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081689#Comment_121081689

That's fair enough, but it equally does feel like a fair enough conversation to raise to say "bloody hell, Greenwood, Antony, Konopka, that's a bad run of events!". I think how the conversation is framed and what its doing is important though, rather than just taking the piss out of a team for bantz.

I don't think there is any connection between these events by the way, though their PR team must be stressed out of their minds!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081732#Comment_121081732

Ya that's it exactly, how it's framed like no topics should be off the table but people throw so much hyperbole on top of them it brings the conversation down the wrong path.

I mean the **** going on at united is **** mental I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

But to say and believe the club is fostering some kind of culture that encourages this behavior or encourages them being bought (I'm not actually sure what the point is) is nuts. I mean how would that even work.

DAngelo Bailey

Nobody actually believes Manchester United deliberately invited and honoured a paedo but most including myself are in disbelief that one of the biggest sporting organisations in the world is being ran THIS badly.

To have the Greenwood debacle followed by Antony followed by this really is something in a short space of time.

Pauliedragon

Utd would want to do backround checks on every employee now. That **** was a guest of honour last season so some journo keept this up their sleeve until now. Every person that walks in the door now at OT will have the media scrutinising everything now. I'd hate to be some poor person working an average job there.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082185#Comment_121082185

Or there's some angry employee who leaked the images now?

Fitz*

It's not a culture that's being fostered, it's more that not enough work is being done to cut out dickhead behaviour within the current squad. Do they think that they are that entitled that they can get away with anything now? What is telling them this?

The club failed in their 'internal investigation' of Greenwood. What sort of message does that put out. Do what you want and we will welcome you back into the first team squad. Unless there is big backlash against us, so we have to try and save face and loan you out as a PR exercise. But the initial decision is what we really think. Man United failed the victims of domestic abuse there.

The club being happy to welcome Greenwood back into the first team squad is something that ETH was happy to support and there is enough other stuff with him as is, before the Greenwood decision. The club should be doing background checks on the players he is pushing to sign.

There are more people making accusations tonight that Antony assaulted them too. A third person now. Now I'm aware that this could be an extortion attempt, given his profile but you also have to take the accusations at face value and should not be dismissed instantly.

https://twitter.com/UnitedStandMUFC/status/1699854004094923075?t=bGYh_rEeBDyKavcoVfG_vw&s=19

Augme

I'm sure United will conduct their own investigation and conclude that Anthony is completely innocent and didn't do the things he is accused of.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082413#Comment_121082413

...

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075747#Comment_121075747

I think Ten Hag is clearly the most influential figure at the club when it comes to dictating transfer policy. Antony, Onana, Malacia and Martinez were all signed at his own request having worked with them previously. None of them have hit the ground running which is what you expect of multi-million pound signings playing in the Premier League. You can't wait around hoping they will develop into world beaters. Antony looks a very ordinary player to me. It's a huge leap in standard from the Dutch Eredivisie to the PL.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083362#Comment_121083362

This is the second time you claimed that Martinez has been a failure. He was one of Utds best players last season. He most definitely 'hit the ground running'. And Onana has been there 5 minutes. Way too early to be making any kind of judgement.

Malacia was signed as a backup to Shaw for £12m.

But he also signed Eriksen, Casemiro, Hojlund, Mount and Bayinder. Care to tell me when any of them previously played for him?

Again I'll ask did €85m Nunez hit the ground running for Liverpool?

AdamD

Jesus you are one defensive set of fans

Necro

Can we start a new thread called "Willy Waving" and all the United VS Liverpool stuff can go there.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083707#Comment_121083707

No, Mount didn't previously play for ETH, but ETH did try and sign him for Ajax a few years ago.

Also, you left Amrabat off of the list. He previously played for ETH at Utrecht for a couple of seasons. There was strong links to signing Hojbjerg from Spurs as an alternative in case that Amrabat deal did not work out. And yes, he worked with ETH previously too at Bayern Munich reserves.

You can't deny that there is a strong correlation between signings made in the last 2 years and those players players either having previously played for ETH / played in Holland / were attempted to be signed by ETH. Antony, Martinez, Malacia, Weghorst, Eriksen, Amrabat, Mount, Onana all fall into that category. Don't forget that ETH overruled the Man Utd scouts who wanted to sign Pau Torres last year and bought Martinez instead.

It's a byproduct of not having a DOF structure, giving the manager the free reign of control over the transfers. Each of the last 4 or 5 managers at Man Utd have had the same freedom and look how they ended up. Every one of them were sacked, sometimes because they bought the wrong players and did not deliver the results for the large amounts of money spent. Pressure is on ETH to deliver now, given the amount of money he has spent, and because he has wanted all of those players too. You can't claim that they are 'club signings'. They are his.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083882#Comment_121083882

United managers didn't have free reign on signings, certainly not in Ed Woodwards time, van gall has said he didn't get any of that players he wanted, when Jose there was leaks from Woodwards mouthpieces the players he wanted weren't right for united the summer before his blow up seasons, ole was a yes man and said he wanted all his signings but you could see with the Sancho transfer that wasn't true, as ole said himself he was a right winger then proceeded to never play him there.

Maybe ten hag has more input on transfers, but tbh I'd prefer him in charge then murtough who has no experience in the role, but it just shouldn't be the managers role to be coming up with all the recruitment options if that is what's happening.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083882#Comment_121083882

Having watched Pau Torres the odd time at Villareal and now seeing him at Villa then ETH was 100% correct in his decision. We'd have been adding another CB who doesn't play well in a high line when ETH wanted to work towards playing a high line.

A lack of DOF is definitely our issue. But for that to be put in place then it would need to be added by you know who...

ETH has not had free reign, his input is highly valued but he doesn't have much say beyond that - transfers at Utd from what we know go through John Murtough and Richard Arnold (Matt Hargreaves does the actual negotiations). If they approve it then is put to Joel Glazer who signs off or doesn't. That is in large part why there is often such a hold up with deals at Utd.

ETH will have been able to make suggestions like any manager - but if those above him don't agree it doesn't get done.

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083750#Comment_121083750

That way the perfect Arsenal fans who would NEVER engage in anything like that can live in peace 😉

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084733#Comment_121084733

And picking Martinez over Torres might well have been the correct decision and that's fine. But it's just more evidence that ETH wants his players. He wasn't willing to listen to the scouts and while he may have got one decision correct, it doesn't mean that he will get it right every time. Maybe he is against having a DOF and there is some resistance to change there on the manager's behalf? But of course, that is actually on the condition that the Glazers have intentions of putting one in place.

The number of transfers in the last 2 seasons point to ETH having full control, given the number of players he has vouched for and pursued. 14 players signed and a high number of them have a previous working relationship with him or were previous transfer targets of his while at Ajax. The list is big, and that suggests to me that he does have free reign, coupled with overruling the scouts decisions last summer. It doesn't send out the best message to me. This isn't the era of the 90s and 00s anymore when people like Fergsuson and Wenger could do that, and they had enough credit in the bank build up back then too.

To be fair, the Onana & Martinez transfers were stylistic changes so you can see why those were done, in different summers. Maybe he felt the need to bring Martinez in ASAP as he knew the player could adapt and would help the style change, and maybe he thought it was a difficult market at the time so using his previous relationship would be an advantage. Fair enough, but Onana is not the same. Antony wasn't the same - that was an awful egotistical signing considering who was in the squad at the time, and ETH pushed for that too. There are big questions around Amrabat and Malacia/Mount still have to prove they are at the level required. How often do you see a new manager take over a club and bring in so many ex-players to a club so quickly? It's not the done thing. Did the Man Utd scouts really recommend Amrabat - a player who is 27 and floated around mid-table clubs or lower tier European leagues for his career to date? he was being hawked around Europe since his purple patch of form in the World Cup and nobody bit. Man Utd did, and I would suggest that because is ETH pushed for it, like he did with a number of transfers in the last year or so.

The Moist Buddha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083725#Comment_121083725

they are gas aren't they 😆

doc_17

Martinez hasn’t been a bad signing, but equally, he hasn’t been a brilliant one either. He’s average. And every squad has them. Utd’s best defender is Varane when he is fit.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083707#Comment_121083707

They may all prove to succesful players fo r Manchester United in the long term but you demand immediate dividends at this level. Liverpool and Manchester City manage to integrate (most) new signings into their teams seamlessly with no diminution in individual player or overall team performance. Haaland, Luis Diaz, Salah, Rodri, Sboszlai to name just a few. Nunez, I'll grant you, is still a work in progress but has shown more potential and delivered more so far than Antony. Both cost over eighty million.

Extra game ban for VVD. Deserved too.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085011#Comment_121085011

If the best the scouts could come up with was pau Torres then the scouts are a problem. Not because he's a bad player, he was brilliant against United, and had been linked to them, but it's sort of such a lazy recommendation to make and makes me think of they don't actually do much scouting, or don't do it particularly well.

Like what scouting team would want to pair the rather slow Pau Torres with the running in treacle Harry Maguire

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086595#Comment_121086595

As long as everyone else is punished exactly the same then it's fine by me, and I'd assume 99% of sane supporters would agree.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086729#Comment_121086729

I hate to be cynical about these new rules, but there is a slim to zero chance we will see anyone receiving any form of ban for abusing officials after this. Its the same with the automatic yellow for waving your hands calling for a card for the opposition player, I think there was a few handed out on the first weekend, but I haven't seen anyone get booked for it since, and there has been plenty of occasions.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087173#Comment_121087173

yeah, the 'demanding a card' thing, and the 'kicking the ball away' thing both fell out of refs minds almost instantly it seems.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085840#Comment_121085840

Have you actually watched Man United games very often? Martinez made a very big, instant impact. The mind boggles here. It is a genuine question as to who had a bigger impact last season Casemiro or Martinez (it was Casemiro, maybe he is average too).

I am honestly perplexed by your take. Even Jamie Carragher climbed down from his mental take.

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087416#Comment_121087416

I have watched him. I watched Salah turn him inside out when he played in a team that lost 7-0 to a struggling Liverpool team. I watched him be taken off against Wolves recently after picking up a booking for a stupid, reckless tackle he didn’t have to make. For a team that wants to sit deep and soak up pressure, he’s grand. But he’s no VVD, Dias or Prime Silva. Also, he was Otamendi’s understudy for the Argentina team. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but he’s a pales in comparison to Vidic, Stam, Ferdinand etc…..he’s not elite. He’s grand. That’s about it. If your teams wants to sit back, soak up pressure, then he’s grand. But to get 90 plus points? Play a high line? Dominate his area? No. Nowhere near it.

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087874#Comment_121087874

So 1 and a half games. Imagine typing that and thinking you should be taken seriously.

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087900#Comment_121087900

I can see why Utd fans like him, he walks around like a hard man. He’s grand. But an elite defender. No. It’s not like I’m saying Maguire is better lads. Martinez is just grand.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085011#Comment_121085011

Like I said - I'm sure he has input, his views are surely very highly regarded. The first season especially he would have had to make more impact as the club were obviously handing back transfer targets that did not mesh with ETH's long term view for a playing style.

But again - I need to reiterate that there is at least 4 people above him that we know of that have say / final say on transfers. That's not opinion or speculation - that's fact. So no, he does not have free reign!!

I do feel like we are starting to create a bit of a narrative around the players brought in. Basically any link to ETH at all is deemed to be the deciding factor.

Mathinez, Malacia and Antony and are the ones I would say we actually went heavy with ETH's suggestion as it was his first summer and we had basically made a balls of our planning. After that, it doesn't make much sense every other signing you can point to it being a collection of reasons Utd would have gone for them.

Onana - moved for free to Inter in summer 22. He agreed that move or it was confirmed on July 1st. Either way a free reign ETH surely would have been able to get a move for a keeper on a free approved?

I understand Onana had agreed a deal with Inter a few months beforehand but again I'm sure a fee could have been agreed if indeed ETH had free reign and a serious thing for ex-players.

Instead Utd become interested a year later after a great season with Inter and the obvious need to change our style of keeper. If you done up a list of the world's best keepers over the last season he'd be pretty high on the list and he was at a club Utd could buy from. His playstyle is far more in keeping with the modern approach for keepers. Sure we could have gone for Reya etc..but they aren't as good or haven't at least shown they can operate at a level Onana can.

Amrabat - Surely a free reign ETH who loves his ex-players would have picked up this bargain floating around mid-table clubs before he had a chance to showcase his ability at the WC?

Instead Utd joined a group of clubs in becoming interested after his WC performances. Happens after every WC. Players profiles explode. Also, suggesting he was being hawked around Europe and nobody bit is a bit much. The player seems to have wanted the Utd move. His profile matches what our midfield lacks (cover and can play with Casemiro) It is an area that needed addressing and Amrabat ticks a hell of a lot of the boxes.

Mount - This one does make me laugh to be fair. England international, pressing machine. Available for a decent fee. Area of the squad that needs reinforcement. Fills homegrown allocation. Young with plenty of PL experience - any of these reasons why Man Utd would buy him? No, it's because ETH watched him play for Vitesse in 2017 :D

Eirksen - Signed because he had a really good season at Brentford and a tone of PL experience that could be hugely valuable in a transition period? Nope because he played for Ajax.

Then you have Hojlund and Casemiro - 2 of our bigger outlays in the last 2 windows and they have no connection. Or at least none that has been dug up yet :D Perhaps they passed ETH in an Airport at some stage.

We like to look for patterns in things and once we find one we often end up with confirmation bias. I would accept that Mathinez, Malacia and Antony were highly unlikely to be on the radar of Utd pre ETH (all happened in the first summer as well) but everyone else you can see why they would be looking at them.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087900#Comment_121087900

At least the whole "hes too small" rubbish has been retired. So theres some progress.

y0ssar1an22

apparently haaland was accused of something sinister. some people online think he should be suspended.

think there's an arsenal player also.

where do the good folk of boards stand?

accused, charged, convicted?

OmegaGene

looks like Antony will delay his return to activity with united due to investigation, mutual agreement until it is resolved

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092261#Comment_121092261

I do wonder did United want to bring Greenwood back in because they were aware of a similar issue with Anthony and they were worried they'd have to follow the same process for both?

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092296#Comment_121092296

Don't think it's likely.

SlickRic

Ten Hag must think he's cursed at this stage.

The Moist Buddha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092487#Comment_121092487

he'll be gone by the new year

doc_17

Antony sent on gardening leave.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090742#Comment_121090742

Every person has to take each case and make their own mind up. People aren't courts of law and neither are football clubs, courts find people guilty or not guilty based on the evidence presented in courts, its a little more grey outside of courts and a not guilty doesn't mean they are innocent either.

There are false accusations, there are real accusations, you can't suspend every player at the first Internet rumour, nor can you dismiss any potential victims accusations. It's unsavoury but unfortunately it's the world we live in. I hope most people will be able to use good judgement in each case.

TitianGerm

I'd swear at this stage Antony has made more statements about the ongoing allegations than he's scored league goals.

giveitholly

Yesterday wasn't the best date to reference an airplane in a tweet

https://twitter.com/ErlingHaaland/status/1701251285477937597?t=wvHjCmSfNE1dXL1jeA5jCg&s=19

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099490#Comment_121099490

Why? Because of an event that happened half the world away 22 years ago? Erling was 13 months old when 9/11 took place, I don't think he was making a joke at any Americans expense.

Posting that is just looking to be outraged and begging for people to agree with you

Bugatti

I see Lavia could be out injured for at least the next 6 weeks. Then you have Caicedo and Mount both looking like duds so far this season. 3 players that this summer chose huge wages over the opportunity to play for Liverpool & Klopp, and I can't hid the joy that it gives me seeing how badly the season is going for each of them (yes, I know it's petty but I don't care!) while the new Liverpool midfield is looking far superior without them.