General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832257#Comment_120832257

Was the question; has the Everton manager signed an ex-teammate yet?!

Ashley Young & Sean Dyche playing together at Watford is something I did not know about previously.

artanevilla

He was really good for Villa last season, obviously he's getting on but he's in good nick and a lot of people were disappointed to not see him offered another year.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834069#Comment_120834069

Yeah hes always been weirdly maligned and meme'd more than he deserves.

Everton have left Mykolenko off their pre-season tour so they dont have a left back. Young slots straight in solving the problem.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832257#Comment_120832257

Puzzled as to how much of him you watched last season. A comfortable regular starter who was one of the better players in a top 7 team last season.

He’s an excellent stop gap option for a team who can’t really afford to fill every gap with long term solutions at the moment.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834668#Comment_120834668

Think he’ll be on the right, especially with Coleman having been injured and Patterson yet to take flight there.

He was always more comfortable on the right than left at Villa, although part of that will have been the system where Emery expects his left sided player to have much more attacking responsibilities.

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834712#Comment_120834712

He played 90 mins about 15 times last year, and most of them were when the team was struggling.The man who saw more of him that anyone decided not to renew his contract.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840944#Comment_120840944

He was also a stand out player in that struggling team, and continued to be excellent whenever he played under Emery. I would have him ahead of Coleman at this point, particularly with Coleman's fitness issues. He has a lot to offer a Premier League side, maybe not 90 mins a game for 38 games but he's still performing at a really high level.

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840975#Comment_120840975

I disagree, and so does Emery.

Bounty Hunter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841178#Comment_120841178

I’d imagine if Villas financial situation was anything like Evertons Emery would have happily kept him on board. If he is all you can get then I’d understand the annoyance but if he allows you to invest elsewhere by providing needed squad depth across a number of positions along with being a pro in training who was always praised for his positive impact on others / young players then it could be a very shrewd move.

As a Villa fan I would not have had any issues if he had of gotten a final one year extension as his play deserved it.

doc_17

Walker has apparently agreed terms with Bayern according to press reports. City are fairly shaking it up this summer.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841178#Comment_120841178

Emery was a fan so ....

, Emery said: "Ashley Young is an example. I had players like this at Villarreal too. If you didn’t know his age you could think he is 28 because every day even as much as he is playing he is playing very well. Before usually you were seeing players of 32, 34 starting to finish their careers 20 years ago.

"At Villarreal we were signing players 35, 36, like Jose Luis Morales and we didn’t change our mind for his age. Now it is the same for Young. We are going to speak about him. Now is not the moment but, of course, he can extend his career longer than this year.

"He is very important in the dressing room. I am using him a lot of times when we are speaking together before matches about our experiences - my experiences and the players’ experiences.

Like he's 38 now, and Emery probably sees that his availability and value is less next season, but he was clearly happy with him.

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120853604#Comment_120853604

And he clearly thinks he’s done. Words are one thing, actions are another. And actions always speak louder than words. What did you expect Emery to say? “Yeah, we’re glad to see the back of him…”.

On another note, surely it can’t be true that Henderson is being offered £700k for 3 years? If that’s the case there will be a stampede of top footballers in their prime wanting to go out. It’s just nuts. Henderson can make more in 3 years than he did in his previous 15 year professional career.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120853764#Comment_120853764

Emery has other considerations to make. Just because a contract isn't renewed doesn't mean he thinks he's done. Villa are making a big push, that's all it means.

They have a finite amount of players they're allowed have in their squad and have a finite amount of wages.

JP Liz V1

Trevor Francis, British football’s first £1million player, has died at the age of 69. The ex-Birmingham City forward, who scored Nottingham Forest’s winner in the 1979 European Cup final, died in Spain from a heart attack.

RIP

Apologies if wrong thread

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890948#Comment_120890948

RIP

Im old enough to remember the faffing about the million pound player, the cries of 'the game is gone' and where will it all end? Very talented player, always seemed to carry the price tag around with him though. Quite burden.

Different times.

El Gato De Negocios

Just reading that Chris Bart Williams has died, only 49.

Widdensushi

A different kind of "transfer" news ,rip .

DM_7

Spurs are having a crazy summer:

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1683968849102643200?t=kocFIsZ_YKxCESUWyhfI7g&s=19

doc_17

That’s a bit of a disaster for Spurs, a summer when they needed investment now sees them dealing with a crisis like that. They aren’t fond of the insider trading business in the SDNY, although I’m sure it happens routinely.

doc_17

West Ham have held initial talks with Manchester United about signing England defender Harry Maguire, 30, and Scotland midfielder Scott McTominay, 26. (Sky Sports)

That would be one way to spend the Rice money…..

Kiith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897030#Comment_120897030

Serioualy doubt it impacts Spurs in any way. Lewis gives **** all to the club for transfers, and he's only going to end up getting a fine of a few million dollars.

Doesn't look great, but this is business as usual for billionaires.

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897237#Comment_120897237

He probably forgot to pay someone lol

I can’t see how it impacts spurs in anyway, insider trading is rife, as you say he’s not spending his own cash to buy players

doc_17

Didn’t he handover some assets last year to his family? How interested will they be in Spurs?

xtal191

https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/1684290846865104896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1684290846865104896%7Ctwgr%5E98104c2e00c6d81d75856bf3a0b7978d83c04ff7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.othboxing.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fthreads%2Fthe-football-thread.38%2Fpage-4950

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Fitz*

Chelsea fined €10m for 'incomplete FFP reports' by UEFA.

Wonder to what degree they were withholding information? Must have been a lot if they were fined that much.

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1684976378482135040?t=0YsDVL1y_CfDsO_YA6T9Uw&s=19

EDIT: I assume that the PL will also charge them as well?

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897123#Comment_120897123

20m bid rejected.

I suppose English and still gets his game for the NT.

But at 30 and the few years he's had, I'd have thought that was a reasonable fee.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909519#Comment_120909519

UEFA and their attitude to FFP is hilarious. If they can prove you're cooking the books, then they are happy to let you carry on, as long as they get their bribe or piece of the action.......

no I mean they will fine you, it's a fine not a bribe, fine not a bribe....

DM_7

West Ham reported to have bid in the same region for Ward Prowse.

Teams know how much they received for Rice. Forbes rank them number 15 of clubs in world revenue, in between Ac Milan (14) and Inter (16).

Clubs will expect a lot from West Ham now as their position has improved and they have become established again in a league that provides huge income.

adaminho

Might have flown under the radar but the PL have decided to implement the world cup rules on time wasting!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/28/premier-league-referees-to-add-on-time-lost-for-goal-celebrations-this-season

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921578#Comment_120921578

Newcastle games will take 3 days to finish.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921578#Comment_120921578

IF they stick to it then the first couple of rounds of games will be super long then players will just stop it as there's no benefit. Same as to what happened at the World Cup.

kowloonkev

More likely the referees will implement changes for two weeks, players will continue to time waste because it disrupts the flow of the game, and the referees will revert back to normal.

Liam O

Yeah a simpler thing would be to introduce a deterrent for time wasting. If the ball is not in play within a certain amount of time it's a yellow, if a keeper holds the ball for the longer than I don't know, 6 seconds(!!!) then a yellow. They have balls available there so there's no reason for a goal kick to take 40 seconds or a throw to take 20. Add on the time on the floor and you have something maybe but would prefer to just allow physios on while the game is being played. A straight red if you roll back onto the pitch to get the game stopped for treatment in the absence of that.

These are 2 minute ranty ideas from me and nothing really changing year after year in the game except seemingly to make them 2 hours long.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923603#Comment_120923603

It’s probably the strongest argument for a 60 min game where clock stops anytime ball out of play.

That said, I don’t like thinking of a 60 min game partially cause it really makes me think of American NFL. Next thing there will be 4 quarters of 15 mins and a draft and a closed league…..

doc_17

This from the Guardian

“United’s upturn under Ten Hag since he took over last summer is the product of an impressive package of high-end coaching, man‑management and the vision of what an elite club should be. “

No mention of the the £350m plus Ten Hag has spent on players!

Cookiemunster

Well for a start, he didn't spend £350m plus on players last season. And Utd themselves are the proof that spending money does not automatically lead to success.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924513#Comment_120924513

True enough, but it does seem a bit odd if you are actually talking about success to only talk about management and coaching, and ignore the additions of quality lads like Casemiro, Eriksen, and Martinez etc. there’s been improvement from a few different directions.

rob316

Can't understand why they don't just stop the clock when the ball isn't in play.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922288#Comment_120922288

TV companies will want certainty so they can plan, at the minute they can do that with 45 minutes plus the normal 4 minutes injury time each half.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924333#Comment_120924333

Maybe its because spending 350 million spent over 12 months doesn't actually mean anything at this stage and cant undo 10 years of infrastructural mismanagement. Some people get hung up on net spend which is actually a ridiculous way of judging a manager, that's how you judge a club. Its not a managers fault a club has build up a squad of under performing and low value players by over spending. If a manager has 500 million spent on players, it doesnt matter if its a net zero cost to club or it cost 500 million, the manager is still getting 500 million worth of quality for their project. If you have an issue with spend, why not moan about Chelsea ? Is it because that kind of contradicts your point , that spending equates to success ?

What really annoys me about this sort of stuff, is the puff pieces written about Pep. He joined a club that was spending hundreds of millions on players and infrastructure for him before he even joined. He joined a club that was already challenging for top honors and he has been afforded more resources and support from a club that any manager in the history of the sport has enjoyed. He couldnt of failed to be successful and one could argue hes under performed in Europe given the advantages he has had. There is zero objective debate on him, he is the best cause success and points tally in the league. Oh and City dont spend loads now, because they juiced up their squad and infrastructure in multiple ways, including through back handers off books that everybody knows.

ETH joins a club that's a disaster, that's effectively destroyed the careers of every manager its had since SAF retired. Its a club that has a crumbling stadium, inadequate infrastructure, has a marketing strategy that regularly interferes with managers preferences of focusing on field, has terrible record in the transfer market and effectively looks like the complete opposite to City where a manager is effectively setup to fail. I do not think anybody would be stupid enough to think that a Pep at United over the last 10 years would have won anywhere near as much as he has at the far better run clubs (sure things) he has managed. That in itself shows the folly of judging a manager on spending.

Since ETH has joined United, Arsenal have spent €400 million which is roughly the same as United and under less pressure. The difference was that Arteta had time to weed out players he didnt want and start to mould the team before he got to spend big. ETH joined an over paid squad of disjointed under performing players in a club that's owners subsequently put up for sale, the biggest start in the team fell out with the manager and he had to sign Weghorst as a first team striker.

Most reasonable people would see last season as very impressive in terms of how ETH navigated things. Managing United is not the same as managing a club that will accept a few years working things out, because with big spending comes bigger expectations. And United is just a much bigger club then any club in England, that must really annoy fans, but its just a fact.

All things being equal, you couldn't of asked for more from ETH last season , he steadied the ship, got a trophy in the cabinet and most importantly most fans can see the potential that he promises once our cluster f**k of a club keeps backing him. That's no easy task, but I get why non united fans want to try and underplay his achievement and progress, a lot of the time they do not like seeing any praise for a manager they want United to sack.

McFly85

The addition of a proper amount of time added on worked very well in the World Cup, it didn’t take long at all for players to realise timewasting wasn’t worth it and to get on with it.

The problem for new rules with PGMOL is usually consistency in implementation. I fully expect controversy when a team like Newcastle spends the entire game timewasting only for them to have 3 minutes added on at the end.

At least with something like this it’s pretty cut and dry - Opta or whoever will be able to go over the game tape to see how much should have been added on, so it should be easy to reprimand a referee not implementing the rules correctly.

DM_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924737#Comment_120924737

Does the vision on what an elite club or the expectations of players not include the players bought?

The next line of the quote is : "That vision is about the relentless demand to be best in class, starting with United’s prize assets – their footballers".

The whole quote is part of the introduction of to the report of the content of an interview with Ten Hag anyway. A previous paragraph specifically notes how his plans are bolstered by expected new arrival in Hojlund.

Overall the quote is not worth reading too much into really out of context of what Jamie Jackson is writing.

Personally I think new players and changes in players were and are a key part of him having any success and also judging if he has had success.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/31/erik-ten-hag-manchester-united-standards-not-right-jadon-sancho-harry-kane

Brendan Flowers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924333#Comment_120924333

I'm glad managers aren't solely judged on the money they spend on players. For example if you were to take Liverpool since May 2020 when they won the title (I'm specifically starting for the point when Liverpool were the undisputed best team in England), Klopp has a total net spend on players of approximately €110 million more than Pep, yet it's City that have won 3 titles in a row and Liverpool have finished 3rd, 2nd and 5th since then. but that's a very simplistic view of how both clubs operate. Likewise with the article you posted above, a journalist could have taken the simplistic approach and just pointed out the money spent by Utd in the past year (which is not to dissimilar to the money being spent by Utd for the past 10 years). But instead they've looked at where the changes have actually been made behind the scenes by the manager to turn MUFC around.

Leroy42

Is there any movement on the charges levelled at City last season? 100+. It seems crazy that still nothing has actually been decided and that either City have to continue with this cloud over them (although that doesn't seem to worry them too much) or that the rest of the league is just supposed to carry on as normal while they continue to break the rules.

Why announce the charges if they had no intention of actually doing anything about them?

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924934#Comment_120924934

Surely if a manager has to sell their star player, in order to buy players and have a net spend of close to zero, it does affect the judgement of the manager.

Are we gonna sit here in 12 months and base Ange Postecoglou's job completely on where he has Spurs after spending £100m worth of new players, but totally ignore that he had to sell a prime club legend in Harry Kane at the same time, which in turn results in a balanced net spend?

ETH hasn't been forced to sell any star players he wanted to keep. He has brought in a lot of players, for a lot of money, that he wanted. A lot of the players brought in he has worked with previously, or were transfer targets of his while manager of Ajax like Malacia & Mount. He has singed 7 players permanently at Man Utd, 3 of those he previously worked with and 6 of the 7 had played in the Eredivisie while he worked there.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925667#Comment_120925667

The government and the football authorities can do what they want, when they want to as they have done in the past.

But really what motive do they have to tarnish their entire product that’s celebrated by millions of people who couldn’t care less how city achieved their success. There’s hundreds of millions being pumped into the sport , why would they sabotage the Gravy train?

I think of it like United and Greenwood. If you wait enough time , the fickle nature of people will just accept it’s probably not really an issue, even if there is some blowback. Meanwhile the EPLs treble winners and poster boy Pep can continue to be put up on a pedestal.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925667#Comment_120925667

The last I read about these charges was that their (City's) lawyers were arguing that the chair of the independent commission should be removed as he was an Arsenal fan.

That's the level of what we are dealing with here so there likely won't be a resolution to these charges for years as City will use every single trick in the book to drag it out as long as they possibly can

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925677#Comment_120925677

I don’t think it’s negligible factor but equally I don’t think the headline “he spent 350 million net” is an accurate statement in isolation. There’s sympathy in some parts for Graham potter who had over half a billion spent and he wasn’t even around a year. Amount spent is not as important as how it’s spent.

The only player ETH inherited who was worth anything was Bruno. The superstar of the team had to be sacked, something a lot of managers wouldn’t do and ETH got spot on. The first team GK couldn’t play to his tactics , went on a free. The world record defender , who was also the captain of the club, can might not fetch more then doublewhat liverpool got for a past it Jordan Henderson. How is that ETH fault?

If a manager doesn’t have any superstars to sell and doesn’t inherit a squad of any real value with unwanted players actually harder to shift, how can you hold that against him?

He’s also joined a club notoriously sh*t at selling and buying players for multiple reasons (one being the ridiculous contracts given out).

Id love to see any top manager of a top club have Weghorst as their starting striker for a couple of months in a season due to player limitations. That just doesn’t happen at most well run clubs. That’s not to say “poor ETH”, but to balance out the “he spent 400 million” narrative that is only part of the story.

If anything, people should acknowledge the difficult conditions United managers have to navigate. Spending over a billion on a disjointed squad is not a managers fault. Being stuck with those players is not a managers fault. Not being able to offload these players is not a managers fault.

I think if you put Klopp or Pep at United, neither would have won a league or CL the last 10 years , even though Uniteds spending was as much or more at times. A manager can only succeed with the right backing. Some of you seem to think that “well 400 million was spent” is “the right backing” but United , like Chelsea have shown this to be a very misguided barometer.

Certainly it’s only one part of how somebody should fairly judge a manager. The football infrastructure behind the backing is just as, if not more, important as the headline money being spent.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925715#Comment_120925715

Except that it was the PL itself that brought the charges - if they didn’t want to sully the brand they wouldn’t have. Now they’ve started the process themselves, they have to see it through, or look very bad themselves.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925677#Comment_120925677

O come on, i presume you are talking about Couthino, Liverpool were absolutely blessed with that transfer in many ways, and not one fan or Klopp himself would take that back, Barcelona way overpaid due to feeling mugged off by psg over the Neymar transfer and it enabled Liverpool to bring in players that were crucial to the future success, it is also the only time in Klopps tenure that I remember he had to sell someone he didnt want to, obviously Liverpool bought well and have sold well and deserved credit for that, it was a one off thing though and it brought nothing but positives for liverpool,

ETH is in the job a year also there is no point in even comparing the two at this stage, when did that transfer happen in his reign? If ETH is ever forced to sell someone due to a player forcing a transfer i would love it to work out as well as the Couthino one.

Also Klopp came into a club with a great transfer team who i think convinced him towards some of the transfers that have proven very successful over ones he wanted, ETH came into a mess that woodward has left and working with Arnold who at best can be described as inexperienced