General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

citytillidie · 05-10-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196133#Comment_121196133

Because FIFA don't make the laws that is IFAB

joeguevara · 05-10-2023 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196908#Comment_121196908

Well they didn’t change it either.

IncognitoMan · 05-10-2023 12:54pm

Genuinely surprised at the amount of posters who are taking Klopp's comments as literal.

This is what the top end managers do all the time. They use their platform to create a narrative around their sides.

As sure as the sun will raise tomorrow Liverpool will get a few nice decisions over the next few weeks.

Same at the start of the season - as soon as Wolves didn't get that penalty and all the up roar that followed you knew Utd would be shafted in the coming weeks. Next game... Shafted.

It's something I wish ETH would do more of. The best manager create an environment where you better be damn sure you aren't giving a slightly contentious decision against them or you'll have them on your back in the media.

I've seen posters even call it a "siege mentality", which just shows that it works.

Liverpool's next game the ref and the VAR will not give anything they are even slightly unsure of against Liverpool.

DeanAustin · 05-10-2023 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197123#Comment_121197123

Did Wolves get any dodgy decisions?

Can we expect Tottenham to get screwed rather than Liverpool get good decisions then by this logic?

Infoseeker1975 · 05-10-2023 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197134#Comment_121197134

I would have thought that conceding a goal at 0-0 when that team is down to 10 men but then the ref after saying it is a goal forgets to include it is enough good decisions for 2023:)

The Big Easy · 05-10-2023 3:27pm

Is Southgate trying to get sacked!?

How can he in all seriousness continue to pick Maguire and Henderson? It's a complete joke!

TitianGerm · 05-10-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198022#Comment_121198022

And he picked an injured Saka.

joeguevara · 05-10-2023 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197358#Comment_121197358

Ref said it was offside

blanch152 · 05-10-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198072#Comment_121198072

And that is why the calls for a replay are completely nonsensical. Without VAR, the goal was ruled out. With VAR, the goal was also ruled out.

loyatemu · 05-10-2023 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198022#Comment_121198022

Loyalty? They're effectively already qualified, I assume he'll phase Henderson out before the tournament. Maguire he seems to trust but if he continues sitting on United's bench he'll eventually lose his place (in the starting 11 at least).

citytillidie · 05-10-2023 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198272#Comment_121198272

Or without VAR the linesman have to do their jobs again fully and not relay on the back up of VAR so it would never have gotten that far as if the linesman thought it was offside his flag would have gone up right away. Swings and roundabout here now at this stage. Just wonder if it was any other team would there have been as much whataboutery

Infoseeker1975 · 05-10-2023 5:54pm

We let the kids ref the game when they are starting out up to U10, think it might be worth a try this weekend in the PL, would be entertaining if nothing else. They could not review the first yellow card where the spurs player's foot made contact with Jota's knee though obviously we all know Jota was using his knee to foul that player.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38573537/panel-says-diogo-jota-red-card-liverpool-spurs-was-incorrect

IncognitoMan · 05-10-2023 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197134#Comment_121197134

Not sure. Spurs may well struggle.

But I know it's highly likely Liverpool will be on the "Postive" side of a few decisions over the next few weeks because that's the standard we have in the PL.

Sure you don't have to believe me. We'll revisit in a couple of weeks and we'll see if Liverpool suddenly end up on the other side of a few calls.

If they don't I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong.

Infoseeker1975 · 05-10-2023 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198783#Comment_121198783

I agree though the great thing about the current standard of referees is the uncertainty of what they will do.

Each referee should be reviewed and rated by an independent person/body of people after each match; there should be an ability for those refs in lower leagues to move up whilst those in the PL if they maintain a really low level can be moved down a league.

I could never understand why most of the refs just stay in the PL every year regardless of how good they are at their job.

The Big Easy · 05-10-2023 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198444#Comment_121198444

That can only go so far though. He's making himself bigger than the job he's in.

If you can't get near starting for your club while they're going through a defensive injury crisis you should be nowhere near the England squad.

He's coming close to devaluing a call-up and the honour of playing for your country.

Equally if you choose to effectively leave competitive football you can't continue to play for your country.

I'm not English nor a fan, but I think it stinks.

~Rebel~ · 05-10-2023 7:42pm

The Henderson one is nuts in any competitive sense alright, I can kinda understand the Maguire one though, particularly with the number of defensive injuries at Utd that will likely see him back in the frame getting game time.

Though with Hendo it might be case of bringing him back to consciously give him a last game at Wembley before he's phased out. They've a friendly against Australia in this window, probably a decent opportunity to give him his goodbye. He served them well over the years, so could see Southgate repaying that with a swansong.

DeanAustin · 06-10-2023 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198783#Comment_121198783

I actually think Klopp's approach will mean that refs call everything absolutely down the line and do it very clearly over the next few weeks. The scrutiny will be huge so if Liverpool suddenly start getting favourable calls, there will be a lot questions asked and opposition managers sniping.

IncognitoMan · 06-10-2023 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200511#Comment_121200511

You have more faith in PL official's ability than I do so.

None of the ref's will want to be subject to a post match analysis on their incorrect decision against Liverpool in the wake of this one. Even subconsciously it's going to be there. They will be second guessing calls - I haven't seen anything from any ref in the PL for years to think they will handle this pressure/situation well.

This isn't something against Liverpool either - Klopp is paid to win matches for them. He's dead right to try every trick he can. In an ideal world we would have a system / officials in place that could handle the pressure but these can't.

DeanAustin · 06-10-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200753#Comment_121200753

Let's come back and revisit in a couple of months and we can bet a pint on it. Maybe I do have too much faith in the officials...

JRant · 06-10-2023 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198783#Comment_121198783

https://twitter.com/mickquinn1089/status/1710020208813855066?t=GKy9cTtRLCR8LEP-J-GzZA&s=19

Something like this maybe?

blanch152 · 06-10-2023 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200753#Comment_121200753

Have to agree with this. Have zero faith in the professionalism of referees. They are looking after each other's backs all the time rather than focussing on the job. Will want their mates to avoid further scrutiny and outrage from Klopp et al.

doc_17 · 06-10-2023 4:47pm

I don’t blame Southgate for picking Maguire, it’s not Maguire’s fault or Southgate’s fault that Ten Hag is acting the way he is. Should Southgate ignore one of his better defenders because Ten Hag is treating him unfairly? Ten Hag might have to eat humble pie.

Fitz* · 06-10-2023 7:53pm

Laugh at, mock and give out about Liverpool and Klopp all you want, but without them doing what they did, would every other club and fan be getting this audio moving forwards? Or would it continue to be just cherry picked by Howard Webb once every 6 months to show how great they are?

Will there be a change for the better in the VAR terminology, thus increasing VAR standards?

They are rhetorical questions btw.

https://twitter.com/MiguelDelaney/status/1710316781980496296?t=knHaxD3xwwoVyJH3Bo2xdw&s=19

joeguevara · 06-10-2023 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202879#Comment_121202879

A friend of my mine (a Liverpool fan) sent me a link to the following post on a Liverpool fan page:

‘1. In 2022, Everton got a PGMOL apology after Rodri handball was not given as penalty. Everton lost 1-0, and Liverpool lost the title by 1 point because this handball decision was not given.

2. Last season, Arsenal got 2 PGMOL apologies which cost them 5 points. City won the League by 5 points

3. Man City have never received a PGMOL apology. Somehow the horrible quality of refereeing in this league never affects them, but affects their direct title rivals a lot.

So in last 2 years, 3 apology worthy mistakes have given 2 titles to Man City, the same team that has not been punished for FFP in 15 longgg years. You hear a lot of praise for City and Guardiola from pundits and ex-players. But if Klopp points out issues about FFP and VAR, he is said to be moaning/crying/whinging and should move on. Quite an absurd logic...I think Klopp has been absolutely bang on, all along 🤔’

when it’s put in those terms it puts an interesting take. I’m not entirely in agreement with it but it’s galling nonetheless. What are your thoughts?

~Rebel~ · 06-10-2023 8:23pm

City do seem to get a particularly easy run from refs for some reason, with persistent cynical tactical fouling - Rodri especially - going unpunished week after week, and year after year. It's worth pointing out though that even without Arsenal's 5 point reduction, City still would've won the league comfortably on goal difference. Maybe it would've changed other results, with Arsenal falling apart a bit at the end, which maybe they don't do without those setbacks - but on paper, the VAR decisions didn't entirely hand City that one.

y0ssar1an22 · 06-10-2023 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121203009#Comment_121203009

cos they press so high, most cynical fouls happen in the opposition half..ref's dont have the balls to give yellows for that.

they are also masters of blocking the runs from the oncoming attack by running across the same path. all you need for that is a bit of intuition and determination.

i do wish cynical fouls was an instant yellow, like the way a pull back is an instant yellow in ~80% of cases.

very basically, the ref's do not have the balls to consistently implement their own rules.

machiavellianme · 06-10-2023 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202966#Comment_121202966

Even if Arsenal had those 5 extra points, they still would have lost on goal difference so a moot point.

https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1513231540427366403/photo/1

However, had VAR been around to (hopefully) get this one right for Sterling's perfectly good goal against City back in 2013, then the game might have ended in a draw and Liverpool would have won that league by 1 point rather than lose it by two.

y0ssar1an22 · 06-10-2023 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121203330#Comment_121203330

can you go back any further? i hate all these past injustices

machiavellianme · 06-10-2023 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121203544#Comment_121203544

Sure. Thanks to the wonders of a digital information age, it's possible to go back as far as records began but seeing as you hate all these past injustices, I couldn't burden you with them all.

However, you can take solace in the fact that none of them resulted in a replay and apart from a bit of a fuss until the subsequent game, they were quickly relegated to the annals of time. Not long for you to wait now, then what will you have to post about hating?

doc_17 · 07-10-2023 9:33am

From The Guardian this morning…..

“The UK government has been asked to reveal what steps it has taken to investigate whether Manchester City’s owner, Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan, assisted wealthy Russians on whom it has imposed sanctions in moving their assets to the United Arab Emirates.

Lawyers acting on behalf of a Ukrainian activist – who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals from Russia – have written to the foreign secretary, James Cleverly, to ask whether investigations have been carried out to determine whether Mansour, the UAE’s deputy prime minister, should be identified as a “designated person” subject to financial sanctions under the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019”

What a club.

klose · 07-10-2023 9:39am

https://twitter.com/RobBurl/status/1710559178106786028?t=IxyABexXVPHT5XGaRTzF-A&s=19

The faux outrage against Klopp/LFC all for nothing as something good came out of it for all clubs.

poppers · 07-10-2023 10:45am

Easist thing would be have the ref go straight to the monitor and discuss with var and on fiield ref makes the call just like rugby.

joeguevara · 07-10-2023 10:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204404#Comment_121204404

I don’t think there was any outrage apart from Liverpool fans at the VAR decision. Everyone else had secondhand embarrassment.

theoneeyedman · 07-10-2023 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204404#Comment_121204404

Window dressing.

Transmit an audio feed of the deliberations live straight away, not once a month with Howard Webb and Sky cleaning it up, being questioned by remounted hard hitting journalist Michael Owen 🙄

The silence from the other 19 clubs and their supporters was deafening all week, seems once liverpool were baong shat on they were all happy to swallow whatever crap the PGMOL was offering.

Once the clubs, ie the ultimate bosses of this league are happy to stay quiet, why would PGMOL change?

theoneeyedman · 07-10-2023 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204388#Comment_121204388

I suspect once the Tory government get a slice of the pie they are happy to turn a blind eye to the UAE as they have done with the Russians washing money through Londongrad for the last 30+years.

joeguevara · 07-10-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204635#Comment_121204635

The silence of Liverpool through every PGMOL apology not effecting them is different to this instance in what way?

theoneeyedman · 07-10-2023 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204678#Comment_121204678

Because this one was fundamentally different. It was demonstrated that there was a **** up made, which is one thing, but the guys knew they were fuckin up and still continued on regardless. It's only because of the furore that the non-apology was offered, and the attempt to pretend they are changing things. Add in the smell around the lads off on anall expenses paid jolly in UAE last week, it's comical in a lot of ways if it wasn't so serious.

Sooner or later someone ka sponsor or a bookie or something) is going to take a pound of flesh from these guys.

joeguevara · 07-10-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204969#Comment_121204969

They couldn’t have done anything about it. Thems the rules. Again Liverpool always quiet unless it affects them. Which isn’t bad or wrong. Everyone’s the same. But don’t deride teams or supporters for being silent.

citytillidie · 07-10-2023 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204678#Comment_121204678

The silence of every other team was just as bad 🤦‍♂️

joeguevara · 07-10-2023 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204998#Comment_121204998

I don’t understand. Apologies.

Augme · 07-10-2023 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204984#Comment_121204984

But other teams supporters weren't silent. They were the complete opposite. they were very vocal in saying Liverpool shouldn't be complaing, that mistakes happen and they should just get on with it.

joeguevara · 07-10-2023 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205176#Comment_121205176

So which is it, the poster I was replying to said they were silent. You saying they weren’t. And actually there hasn’t been any fundamental changes in VAR. plenty of promised reviews etc. consult assistant var (wouldn’t have made a difference in Liverpool match). So realistically a lot of huffing and puffing for nothing.

and again spurs fans were saying var was shocking. But Liverpool giving out about the cards was met with opposition

ShamoBuc · 07-10-2023 1:42pm

What a stupid second yellow by Bissouma. What goes through your head, when on a yellow, to dive like that.

Could go either way now.

Augme · 07-10-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205204#Comment_121205204

He might have been referring to the silence of clubs? I referred to you comment about the silence of fans. Also, PMGOl have stated that there will be fundamentally changes starting this week so Liverpool pushing the issue clearly worked. Despite Gary Neville and Co. Being completely against it.

Now whether these new changes will work is to be seen, but it can't make the current shambles that is VAR any worse.

joeguevara · 07-10-2023 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205222#Comment_121205222

we can only hope, but honestly i don’t see many actual proposed changes that make any difference. Mainly lip service.

DAngelo Bailey · 07-10-2023 1:55pm

It's worth pointing out that VAR audio was being released prior to Liverpools courageous stand on behalf of football.

Very interesting early game here where 10 man spurs lead Luton an action packed game where Bissouma was deservedly given a 2nd yellow for a clear and disgraceful dive.