General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326331#Comment_121326331

Does it matter of the ball went back or forward? I think it's still offside even if the ball goes backwards, I'm just checking.

DAngelo Bailey

The ball was in play Gordon was onside and there was no foul it was checked for ages all obvious.

DAngelo Bailey

Ball clearly still in

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326026#Comment_121326026

yep, just a general observation , we are never going to win the league, the other end , so would be rooting for Arsnal to stop City

DAngelo Bailey

What is Gary o Neill whinging about? That's a stonewall penalty

jacool

Interesting to hear if there is any truth in the story that VAR reviewed Bruno's assault on Jorginho and said it was a forearm not an elbow, because if they have said that, they clearly haven't read this under VIOLENT CONDUCT

"In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible"

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326381#Comment_121326381

Yeah, the ball going forward or backward is irrelevant - all that matters is whether the receiving player is either behind the line of the second last opposition player, or behind the position of the ball, when it's played.

I think the "ball went back" thing is usually brought up trying to show that if the ball went back and went to a player, they surely must have been behind that line - but it going back doesn't inherently mean anything within the rules... for instance if the ball is played backwards, and a player who was offside runs back to get it, or even just hooks a foot back to help it forward, they're still offside.

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326015#Comment_121326015

+1

They dont have thr calibre of people to operate it.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325725#Comment_121325725

It's great. They're a bit of a throwback to the best era of PL in the late 90's/early 2000's. Having teams with different styles of play makes football so much better. They're probably the only club at the moment whose passion is not generated from being screwed over by VAR.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325225#Comment_121325225

I don't really know what you're expecting from a team who had their midfield gutted during the summer? Their points per game is the same as last season after 11 games, actually marginally better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325932#Comment_121325932

Mistakes happen...

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326361#Comment_121326361

No, it's not.

It is about tribalism though.

Arteta, Kompany et al tell other teams and managers to just get on with it when VAR is a mess, but go nuclear when the shítty refs fúck them over.

Nobody is bothered until it happens to their own team. And so, nothing will ultimately be fixed.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326015#Comment_121326015

The concept is sound - a referee having more information about making big decisions - but the implementation is flawed.

VAR generally works, too. Last season had about 160 on-field decisions overturned, and when the process works correctly you don’t hear a peep about it.

The issue is when mistakes do happen(and honestly we should expect some mistakes, VAR isn’t technology, it’s human process), it’s a knock on effect to more mistakes, and the audience are completely in the dark as to what’s happening.

I think a few things about revising how referees communicate with eacother along with allowing the conversation to be broadcast will go a long way to stem the outrage after seemingly dreadful VAR calls.

Getting rid of it now would represent an utter failure on PGMOLs part to football, it would essentially mean that they would prefer a situation where they’re allowed to get things wrong. And there’d still be outrage about decisions which would happen more frequently based on last years data on VAR overturns.

doc_17

I enjoyed the spite in that Arsenal game, but that’s all there was to enjoy. Those two teams can really turn a match in a poor spectacle with their anti football tactics. If a player can’t tie his laces in a way that they stay tied that should be his own problem. Stopping a game for it shouldn’t happen.

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326916#Comment_121326916

Newcastle are horrific at this. It's appalling and it's wrong.

And I won't hear 'every team does it'. They really don't. Newcastle completely take the mick. Its not just to obstruct the opposition's rhythm, but their style is high pressure - so they use the stoppages, particularly in 2nd halves, to recharge so they can basically press in sprints.

SlickRic

Just saw the O'Neil interview on MOTD. Very revealing.

He said that he was asked to go have a sensible conversation with the referee, and he said he said down, they watch the penalty decision together, and the referee continues to insist its a penalty.

That, everyone, is what we're dealing with. Arrogant with zero accountability.

Osmosis Jones

This genuinely looks like someone trying to get themselves sent off

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326944#Comment_121326944

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/pJ2UT0bZid

This wasn't given last week either so maybe elbows aren't red cards anymore?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326944#Comment_121326944

Looks like a Sunday league player! Ciggerates in the socks

ctrl-alt-delete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326944#Comment_121326944

All I can think of is that VAR got caught up saying that sliding challenge was fine and didn't see him charge towards the other player and catch him with that forearm/elbow.

I honestly can't see how anyone can look at that and not say it is a red. It is baffling.

It's almost like Ant&Dec are in their ears saying "no,no don't send him off"

Osmosis Jones

Can there be retrospective action taken against the elbow? I feel like I haven't heard about those kind of bans since VAR came in.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326848#Comment_121326848

as you say mistakes occured with VAR, and without VAR , it has taken the spontanaity out of football, the magic of a goal, where you have to sit around and wait 2 or 3 minutes to see if ther was some technical error, even minor , that could dissallow the goal - The big mistakes were spotted before VAR, except in very rare instances, similar to whats happening with VAR now . I realise it won't go , but I hate it.

Zico

That Newcastle goal absolutely stinks.

jacool

What time is that "ref watch" thing on Sky Sports? Is it Monday? Should be fun.

pjohnson

The funniest thing with VAR is that it sometimes uses the "Clear and Obvious" line as an excuse for not intervening in generally obvious incidents.

And then the spend 5 minutes using it desperatly tryna find a fingernail offside to disallow a goal.

NIMAN

Is it just England that is making a total hames of the use of VAR?

or are other euro leagues talking endlessly about var decisions all the time?

I said before I am nearly starting to think like a conspiracy nut, that these things are happening to create interest and discussion about the epl. Honestly it seems every day now the media, websites and the likes of Talk Sport are talking for days about the weekends Var decisions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327617#Comment_121327617

I don't see the same issues in Champions league games. The offsides are way more clear cut. No bloody lines been drawn!

So yeah it's probably the English.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327624#Comment_121327624

I've watched a few live games in Serie A, where they have adopted a more automated var system, and it seems to work well, and more importantly, fast.

NIMAN

Any update on what's happening with the 115 charges against Man City?

All seems to have gone very quiet on that front.

Fitz*

I think that VAR can still serve a purpose.

One change I would like made would be for the VAR to ask the on field referee their opinion, rather than tell him to change his mind. For example if a referee gives a free kick for a foul, the VAR can ask him 'did you see that tackle clearly?' and then the on-field referee can say 'yes, I had a clear view, so I'm giving a yellow card'. The on field referee has the power there and accountability. And I think people might accept that more, as it's the one referees opinion and we stick by that. Rather than what is happening now of the referee giving a yellow card and the VAR telling him it should be red instead and it'd being mudded by different viewpoints.

The whole clear and obvious stuff is taken out in wording but if am on-field referee has missed something or didn't have a good view of a foul/incident, then they can say they didn't have a good view and the VAR can advise to look at the monitor, in real time replay first, and help the on-field referee make up their own mind on the incident. Rather than being being told that it is a red card and shown a still image. That's just confirmation bias.

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327673#Comment_121327673

You will be waiting I'm afraid,certain clubs are treated differently. The power of money.

Widdensushi

The whole thing stinks of corruption ,no consistency, other than consistently bad decisions,there's too much at stake for it to be allowed to continue, scrap var in it's current format, come up with a computer program for as many of the decisions as possible and let the rest to the ref .

eigrod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327673#Comment_121327673

With a World Cup now awarded to Saudi Arabia, the pressure from Fifa on the PL to sweep it under the carpet will be massive - no more bad publicity please. The Saudis can do as they please now. The game is over.

ctrl-alt-delete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327810#Comment_121327810

No other submissions to host it either, so it didn't even make it to the stage where one could say they have gone with Saudi Arabia for such and such a reason. Very clever in their dealings - and money as always talks - or doesn't talk as it would seem with word on the Man City charges.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326944#Comment_121326944

Must have had a bet on himself to be Red carded.

The Newcastle goal could easily have been VAR'd for a number of reasons - the Red card was a yellow for me - and I've no idea how the 'Elbow' above cannot be classified as a Red card. The ref did not see it as a foul, so surely VAR could have shown it to him as it was an obvious mistake - not to even give a free and it has to be classified as a Red card challenge, right in the back of the head, clear intent and on purpose.

Is he becoming the new Rodri?

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327827#Comment_121327827

its mad how it happened.

3 continents ruled out of the rotation with that bizarre decision to give south america 3 games, rather than an actual world cup for the centennial.

that only left ME (unsure if that is counted as Asia) and oceania as being able to bid.

with the expanded world cup you need 14 stadiums. Aus and NZ between them can offer only 11 apparently.

that's just leaves saudi to have a free run at it.

but it is absolutely corrupt.

retalivity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327756#Comment_121327756

Still think that its not corruption, just incompetence. The English refs, officials, var teams, etc. are just really, really bad.

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327852#Comment_121327852

Ya, the corruption / deliberate favouring of city or NU is fanciful. Its just being poorly executed. Look at the Unites goal that was disallowed yesterday. Nearly 5 minutes reviewing it then requesting an "objective" opinion on it. It begs the question why doesn't the PL use the automated system that's used in the CL?

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326930#Comment_121326930

Weak refereeing.... Just tell them play on..... The laces will soon not be a problem.

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327810#Comment_121327810

What have the Saudis to do with man city?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327673#Comment_121327673

Be interesting if anything happens this year as even this early, having the best striker in the league you wouldn't bet against Man City walking the league again this year.

The PL is becoming like the German league with Man City being Bayern.

eigrod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327980#Comment_121327980

Directly, nothing. Indirectly, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, neighbouring countries, close allies with identical political and cultural interests, one of which now is sportswashing, with Fifa and certain EPL clubs in their pockets.

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328014#Comment_121328014

I know little about the geopolitical situation in the Middle East. But I do know that those countries aren’t all allies.

tom1ie

Fantastic for spurs to be the only unbeaten team left in the PL this year.

It makes it interesting.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328014#Comment_121328014

Allies, LOL! Sure, Tottenham have a jig tradition of Isreali support, and that's only up tge road, include them in this too whan you're at it.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327446#Comment_121327446

How so? There were three debatable 'decisions' in the run-up to it but it's not clear and obvious to me that any of them was a 'clear and obvious' error. Have Arteta or Arsenal explained exactly why they think the goal should have been disallowed?

GLaDOS

That's one of the worst misses I've ever seen from Nunez

tom1ie

Luton 1 up!!

hynesie08

If you didn't smile when Diaz scored you are dead inside.

Father Hernandez

Whatever about club allegiances, it was nice to see Luis Diaz score and get his message out about his Dad. God knows what he's going through.