General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375516#Comment_121375516

I have articles everywhere. In the last few months he's fallen to no.2 in Europe behind Jude Bellingham. Mbappe is third, Rashford fourth and Son fifth. That article is on fourfourtwo.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375321#Comment_121375321

I thought you were talking about sporting success = popularity but perhaps not.

In F1 Ferrari still maintain and increase their popularity despite their era of dominance (led by Schumacher) being 20 years ago. Since then Red Bull have/are having 2 periods of dominance (led by Vettel then Verstappen) either side of Mercedes dominanting (led by Hamilton). They've generally been incompetent yet no effect on popularity.

Again Valentino Rossi was even more dominant than Schumacher on his Yamaha when he was king. Yet Marc Marquez has ruled MotoGP on his Honda to a greater degree than Rossi up until his own body started to fall apart. Harley dont compete in MotoGP so don't see why you bring them up.

Yes Curry is outselling LBJ. But again I thought you were on about team success in which case the Lakers do outsell the Warriors, which is hardly surprising as the Lakers also had Davis in the top 12 selling shirts, the only team iirc to have 2 players in the top 12. And speaking of NBA teams I could and probably should have also mentioned the Michael Jordan led Bulls of the 90s that predated the Lakers Kobe & Shaq era. The Bulls still sell as crap tonne of "Jordan 23" gear which keeps them high in the best selling teams section despite not having an actual marquee sales player to push them up.

I'm not sure you know what you are trying to say.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375402#Comment_121375402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375669#Comment_121375669

Fúck sake boards didn't load this page until after I made the mistake of replying.

Cant beat ranker.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375075#Comment_121375075

Haaland doesn't come across as a very likable personality, he seems robotic and insular. There aren't the same level of clips of him dribbling past 10 players to score impossible goals singlehandedly either. He's a clinical finisher. Kids love that, but the Messis and Ronaldos of this world have far more about them and kids love that more. Before last season, most kids probably didn't know much about Haaland. Messi and Ronaldo have been around for decades. Yet Haaland allegedly has the 2nd highest tshirt sales globally, for a team with fewer fans?

Something doesn't add up.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375402#Comment_121375402

Not such an "eagle eye" after all

jacool

Arteta has been charged for his comments after the Newcastle game.

""It's alleged that his comments constitute misconduct as they are insulting towards match officials and/or detrimental to the game and/or bring the game into disrepute," the FA statement said.

Wait until the FA tell us what they think of VAR as it can be considered to have both been detrimental to the game and to have brought the game into disrepute!!

doc_17

Lot of talk about City on here this past week. I think John Henry said it best regarding their commercial success…..”what was was the second highest offer for that sponsorship deal?”….

UEFA have already determined City were guilty. City got off on a technicality.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376436#Comment_121376436

I am saying that success leads to popularity.

Michael Jordan's Bulls won six NBA titles in eight years, Jordan retired for the two years in between their two three in a rows.

Jordan sells to this day as he is the greatest to ever play the game. Again success led to thise sales.

The Lakers, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's have all seen multiple titles. Success breeds popularity. Great players too, they've had Magic Johnson in the 80's and Al Jabar, Shaq and Kobe in the 00's, Kobe and Gasol in the 10's, now LBJ and Davis.

Ferrari were the most popular long before Schumacher. It's because of their sports cars. Everybody loves the Ferrari range. Obviously they became much bigger when Schumacher started winning titles but that's success again.

Curry outsells all NBA players because he's the most recent star on a multiple winning NBA team. Again success increases popularity.

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378506#Comment_121378506

The talk has been about man citys revenue for last year which has been the biggest in world football to date. People cant understand how because they haven’t tried to understand how.

I absolutely hate Simon Jordan but he is spot on in this:

https://fb.watch/omXVrojyC4/

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121373156#Comment_121373156

This is a prime example of what prompted this discussion.

Did you read the article? Or anything about the discussion here?

Absolutely no one, not a single person in the world is claiming man city reported 700mplus in profits. No one.

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121373466#Comment_121373466

Another one who hasnt looked into it or followed whats said in this discussion.

Real Madrid play in spain a league with a much lower television deal and didnt win the league or champions league last season. The amount of fans they have is irrelevant for last years account(to an extent).

Majority of Man Citys revenue came from broadcasting, matchday and a very profitable year in player sales.

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378954#Comment_121378954

Since you've looked into everything can you outline the difference between the broadcasting revenue for Madrid and City?

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121373564#Comment_121373564

On matchday with no membership or history? Simply not possible. In fact its very hard to buy tickets for any clubs on matchday just by showing up with a few quid in your pocket. Didnt Roy Keane complain about when trying to buy Wigan tickets on the gate a few years back.

If they had membserhsip and history that may have been possible as the game was moved to a Thursday in january just before payday after christmas so I am guessing a load of tickets went back from supporters who couldnt make it which if I recall happened a few lads in my supporters club.

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375182#Comment_121375182

We must live in a bubble then because I have mates who have bought their kids haaland shirts too in Ireland. I see loads of them around where i live to(albeit not in ireland). I have noticed it when I return to ireland too maybe i notice it more than most because i grew up being the only city fan i knew. It even irritates me a little seeing all these on the bandwagon but thats a side point!

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378972#Comment_121378972

I dont believe Madrid have released their accounts for the year, have you seen them? Send me a link and i will take a look.

But the premier league has the biggest tv rights in the world thats a fact i thought? Its divided first evenly, then on how many times you are on tv and then based on position. Man City get more than any other team in world football on this basis and have for the last few years as they have won the league.

Man city have earned more money than Real Madrid in the champions league by simple fact they won the competition. I dont think is disputable either.

I wont be shocked if when Madrid release their accounts they beat citys number this season as i think(and could be wrong) they had their first full season at the new bernabeu and whatever else they have going on that I dont follow close enough.

I cant think of any major player sales outside casemiro they had so id expect city to have generated more revenue here too with sterling jesus zinchenko plus a rake of youth players like bazanu all leaving.

POKERKING

@eagle eye has done a sterling job debating this despite not being a city fan.

No one is debating that city have as many fans as united or liverpool. No one is debating that they find it easier to fill their stadium.

Anyone with half a brain can see that success breeds popularity, its only natural. Know any irish blackburn fans? Exactly. City supporters will grow and grow while they continue to be successful. Star players breed popularity its why kids have messi miami shirts and ronaldo I actually dont even know which team he plays for but you get the point. Maybe not in ireland as much as the rest of the world but it will happen for the next batch of superstars and Haaland despite not being the prettiest is defo up there.

I am also debating the city dont sell out their ground. For league games this is not true, they do. Potentially for dead rubber CL games or cup games against lower opposition they dont but its abs not true for league games. Its actually impossible to get a season ticket for city. If city sold 50k season tickets they would sell straight away, thats not to say every game would be full in fact it would have detrimental effect which i think is one of the reasons for even debating this. Someone mentioned city had to give away tickets to kids to fill the stadium earlier in the thread this made me laugh, every club does this. City have been doing it for years as part of city in the community, it isnt a new thing and isnt exclusive to city. City make a lot of matchday revenue from their corporate section which i would say is the best or at least joint best with Spurs in terms of how they have tried to maximise it. They invested a lot of money in this area(look up tunnel club or any of the various options like getting a pic with captains of both sides after the toss etc).

I think this will be my last post on this topic, I have made my case and its going round in circles(god dam international break). Happy to debate further with anyone over PM if anyones generally interested in discussing this further, even the accountant guy(cant remember his username) who couldnt understand the numbers at all.

Have a look at the Simon Jordan piece I posted earlier, its an excellent point and part of what I was trying to make. And he never says anything good about Man City.

BenK

The debate about City and their finances always gets nauseating. City fans will never admit any potential wrongdoing & it always ends up going around in circles.

Whether City's recent record revenue was earned 'legitimately' or not is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Clearly, getting to the point where they could easily win the treble and gain the associated increased revenue is the real issue that can't be just ignored. What happened in the previous years is crucial in giving essential context to where they are now. There is no doubt whatsoever in mind that they cheated to get where they are. There is also no doubt whatsoever in my mind that if the club was sold in the morning to a 'normal' buyer that the club would revert to a more realistic standing in the game, reflective of their true resources and support.

In reality, that's why no one actually cares about their 'record revenue', because it's all built on sand. & everyone knows that.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379027#Comment_121379027

You make is sound like winning the league creates a massive financial gap in terms of the distribution of the TV money. But in fact it's pretty close between the top placed clubs. Swiss Ramble has this breakdown on it, albeit from 21/22, but I think it's still the same TV deal so I assume it's the same distribution.

And even then, there is a reason why Man City were not shown the most in the live games - 2 clubs were shown more - and that is because the viewing figures. There is a reason why BT keep picking Liverpool for their 12.30 slot whenever possible and the amount of times dwarves all other clubs in recent years. I'm aware that the European games dictate this timeslot somewhat but correct me here if I'm wrong and the following games were available for BT to use Man City in, but chose a different game instead. Some are fair choices, but you'd think they would want to show Man City more, given their apparent popularity.

GW5: BT showed Wolves vs Liverpool when the option of West Ham vs Man City was there (not on TV at all).

GW9: BT showed Liverpool vs Everton when the option of Man City vs Brighton was there (not on TV at all).

GW11: BT showed Fulham vs Man Utd when the option of Man City vs Bournemouth was there (not on TV at all).

GW16: BT will show Palace vs Liverpool when the option of Luton vs Man City was there.

GW20: BT will show Luton vs Chelsea when the option of Man City vs Sheff Utd was there (not on TV at all).

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379183#Comment_121379183

It'll never be proven though.

As I said earlier there is nobody with enough money to bring a case to fruition. They will hire the best legal minds and just keep bringing up legal issues and arguments and points of law until the opposition run out of money.

Premier league say it'll be dealt with in-house, they'll be in court immediately challenging that and it's goes on from there.

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379027#Comment_121379027

You said that Madrid play in a league with a much lower television deal so I presumed you had numbers to hand on that. They look pretty similar in terms of broadcasting revenue in previous years so I'd be unsure why this would suddenly change?

McFly85

It depends on the appetite of the PL to follow through, really.

The PL in this case is essentially the other 19 clubs, so as long as there’s a majority willing to continue the process they can easily afford legal fees - this shouldn’t be a situation where City can just bleed the opposition resources until they give up.

And what does that strategy say about a club that maintains that it has clear evidence to refute the charges and a manager who says he would love this to be resolved today?

Everyone knows they’re guilty and their actions are completely at odds with their statements. It’s almost Trumpian.

Suvarnabhumi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379246#Comment_121379246

Another textbook response from the city book of deflection.

Lord Pannick is the best legal mind they have. He challanged the commission because one of the members was an Arsenal fan. If that's the best he can do.... 😂 You'd swear the Premier League were going to hire someone straight out of law school. When you get to that level in law, there isn't really going to be any difference if your lawyer cost's £5,000 per hour (as it is suggested thats what Pannick is getting), or £4,000 per hour.

As far as I know, they can't challange the outcome, certainly not with the CAS.

I don't really see the day when the PL announce they're dropping the charges because they've ran out of money!

City are the Lance Armstrong of football. Everyone knows they are cheating. It just needs to be proved.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379183#Comment_121379183

I know two City fans. Both fully admit there's financial doping going on, but don't really care for the most part. Why anyone would deny it though is bizaare.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379136#Comment_121379136

The accountant guy, me, has a far better understanding of the numbers than you. I'm just not a deluded moron. Oh and UEFA did actually prove City's wrongdoing, it just got overruled on a technicality of the evidence being 'time-barred'. City's sponsorship deals which drive a portion of this revenue are utter nonsense. I won't bother with anymore on this as it's like arguing against a paid shill.

Mod: Attack the post not the poster

Suvarnabhumi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379478#Comment_121379478

Do they have a Haaland jersey by any chance 😁

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379393#Comment_121379393

I'm with you on them spending their way to the top.

The other Premier league clubs aren't going to spend big money challenging them.

Succes in the past is irrelevant to the big clubs. Success now is what's important.

It's not impossible to knock City off their perch. You just need a well managed club, from the owner all the way down.

Liverpool showed it could be done winning the Champions league and then the league the following season.

United can stay inside fpp and spend €500 million on transfers. That won't happen though because of their greedy owners.

Obviously Newcastle can start pumping money into their club through nefarious sponsorship just like City.

Chelsea have spent a fortune over the years and nothing was done about that. They were every bit as bad in the 00's and 10's as City have been. And now they've went and spent a net €750 million over two years. Is there anybody complaining about that?

Fact of the matter is soccer loves controversy to keep it in the news. No use only having football results to rely on.

Years ago they brought in last man back fouls it's a penalty. Now they've changed it to preventing a goalscoring opportunity and straight red if I'm not mistaken. That creates controversy, VAR creates controversy weekly.

So now and then they pick on the smaller clubs and punish them for breaking rules. Only the Italian FA has the balls to stand up to the big clubs.

Look at Barcelona and what's been going on there and nothing done about it.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379553#Comment_121379553

Difficult to beat them when they are supplementing the officials incomes.

eh i dunno

Everton hit with 10 points deduction. Interested to see what city and Chelsea get

Fitz*

Everton deducted 10 points.

https://twitter.com/_pauljoyce/status/1725488276935446866

eigrod

This will put huge pressure on the authorities now to deal with the far bigger breaches by other clubs.

Everton go second bottom.

Burnley still bottom!

eigrod

Burnley, Sheff Utd & Luton will still finish below Everton

rob316

Its right they are deducted but the decision on Man City needs to be quicker. I nearly still fancy Everton to stay up just.

doc_17

Everton have every right to feel aggrieved, not for the fact that they have been punished, but that the PL aren’t treating their members equally. City were already caught by UEFA who then tried to throw them out of the CL. City took it to CAS and got off because of statute of limitations, not because they weren’t guilty of the offences. City have already been found guilty of this stuff. It’s cut and dried.

Suvarnabhumi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379648#Comment_121379648

Probably the best season to get a 10 point deduction. I'd imagine they'll stay up.

billyhead

One rule for the rich and another rule for the rest. Joke.

Will last years relegated teams now sue Everton? Have they a case there?

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379658#Comment_121379658

Is there a decision on Man City pending and expected soon? What about Chelsea, surely there’s something there? Seems strange that Everton are first on the chopping block for financial irregularities.

Suvarnabhumi

Well worded response from Everton

The club believes that the commission has imposed a wholly disproportionate and unjust sporting sanction … Everton maintains that it has been open and transparent in the information it has provided to the Premier League and that it has always respected the integrity of the process.

“The club will also monitor with great interest the decisions made in any other cases concerning the Premier League’s profit and sustainability rules.”

Interesting times ahead.....

ebbsy

City must be going down to the GM Vauxhall then.

Heighway61

A lot posts on this thread defending man city are wilfully ignorant. Under the counter payments, shell companies to hide the money trail, wining and dining referees, an owner who is a royal in a hereditary absolute monarchy and is deputy prime minister of a country with apalling human rights, Manchester City is a corrupt football club. Everybody knows what is going on. All those within football, the fans, club owners, commentators, pundits, broadcasters, the governing bodies, and those outside of football looking in, journalists, financial experts, those in other businesses and industries, those who take the blue coin and those who don't. All know. Manchester City fans know. They are defensive as any fan of any club is against an accusation, are defensive because of possible punishment, but most of all are defensive because any and every trophy win is tainted.

whiterebel

Leeds and Burnley dropped legal action against the PL after being told that Everton didn't break the rules. Now it turns out they did. I can see barristers being very busy now.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378628#Comment_121378628

You seem to be tryna argue a point while simultaneously disproving it.

It started with you talking about success boosting teams, yet now you seem focused on individual sales which doesnt corresspond to team sales.

Bizarre.

HalloweenJack

I can see this as being the start of a return to the Super League idea.

Barcelona and Real never really gave up on it. I'm nor sure what Juve's current position is after their punishment last season. Chelsea and City are under scrutiny for past dealings, Newcastle will be as well at some point. All the money coming from and the talent pouring into Saudi Arabia will be a factor, too.

Instead of facing the music, I can see clubs like City and Chelsea crying 'persecution', picking up their ball and walking off to play in a tournament that doesn't care how or where they get their money from. Other big clubs will wait and see but money talks and if the money is in the Super League, they will go as well.

A re-imagined Super League with 'invited' Saudi/UAE teams can't be too far away. Or that idea about the expanded FIFA Club Championship that has been touted for years.

Look how FIFA backed the inaugural African Football League (originally called the African Super League) this year. CAF already has a Champion's League and the Confederation Cup (their Europa League). The competing teams were chosen and the prize money was a lot higher than that for other CAF tournaments.

El Gato De Negocios

....

Liam O

I would like a Super League without any of the traditional teams in it. Let City, PSG, Chelsea, Newcastle and the Saudi clubs have their money pit league where finances don't matter.

I still don't see how the Super League would be good for the teams being run properly. Finish in the bottom half every year and no draft system or anything to even the field. The mega clubs just spend more and more to push you down.

Suvarnabhumi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379849#Comment_121379849

Who's going to watch a Super League with city and Chelsea.

Whether we like it or not, the big attractions in English football are Manchester United and Liverpool, followed by Arsenal and a couple of others. If Manchester city were relegated to the Conference, nobody apart from their fans would really care. They're not a big draw, the big TV deals are not because of them. The next TV deal will be huge regardless of whether city are in the PL. You couldn't say the same if United and Liverpool had left to join another tournament.

SlickRic

What people need to realise about the City thing is that they will not make a decision until it is utterly and completely watertight.

The fact is that City have already warned that they will use every avenue necessary to defend the club; and while Everton can fight it if they want, they don't have a State backing them, and that makes a difference I'm afraid. They can pump billions into any defence and waste the authority's money in the courts.

Everyone knows what they've done. Everyone knows they've cheated.

We can talk about technicalities that they might have exploited, or they can point to obscure ways they may have stayed within the rules while actually breaking the rules, but everyone knows that they have cheated - the issue at the moment is nailing it in such a way that there can be no recourse, because it'll be fúcking expensive if there is, and Abu Dhabi will have no issue with destroying the PL.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379596#Comment_121379596

You know they'll get away with it. You at least doubt they'll get any penalties.

They'll accept financial hits but nothing else.