General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

theoneeyedman

Why are CAS not an option?

Heighway61

Could they take it to a court of law?

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395617#Comment_121395617

You can challenge every little thing. Points of law on everything. There's documents upon documents for anything like this.

I've seen criminal cases take seven years to be resolved by going to higher courts on points of law in this country. And this is not rich people who can afford to spend millions on it or have the best of the best legals teams.

I'll give you an example. James Toney got banned for gambling for eight months I think it was given to him.

I'd have appealed that, for a psychologist to say he had an addiction problem and while bringing it to court I'd have had him getting 'treatment'.

I've now proven that he was suffering from an uncontrollable addiction. Are you going to ban a person with a serious illness. You'll never get away with that.

I'm very surprised that wasn't done.

The Premier League want to keep things in-house but City won't let them do that.

The Premier league can't afford a legal battle with City unless they get the backing of all the rich owners in the league. You can rule out Chelsea and Newcastle for a start and Everton as well.

Everton will be bringing them to court as well and Chelsea too.

The Premier league would end up in serious debt if they went to battle with all these clubs.

What'll end up happening is City will accepth a large fine, maybe even a massive one but no other penalty. Same will happen with Chelsea.

They won't let, I'm talking about City and Chelsea, the Everton punishment stand either. They don't want a precedent.

eagle eye

I have to say, all this thing about fairness in the league is a bit ridiculous anyway. City have rich owners and they run a business. Why can't they invest as much as they need to improve the value of their asset. It's a lot bigger than football these days, these clubs are massive commercial enterprises.

Mansour bought the club for under £0.5 billion and it's now worth over £4 billion.

And there hasn't been fairness in the league since before the Premier League began.

United were the biggest club and could outspend everybody. Arsenal were another rich club. Then Chelsea and Abramovich came along with his money and now Mansour and his money.

You can say that United earned the money the right way but there was crookedness all over more than a few of their dealings, both football and business.

Any of you remember the Panorama show about United?

This is not me liking the owners. I despise Mansour and bin Salman and Al-Rumayyan. Murders, War crimes, jailing and killing members of the LGBT community and women who have the 'temerity' to demand equal rights.

McFly85

I wouldn’t be surprised at all to hear that cities books are as dodgy as ever. It’s been no surprise to see teams that are state owned like City and PSG be top of the revenue pile.

The big issue it is that it creates a false economy within football - a small group of teams generating record revenues through essentially self sponsorship, which feeds into overall profit and in turn goes into how much they can spend on players - and at that point it starts to affect how much players cost everyone(see the after effects of the Neymar transfer for evidence). Trying to legitimise their spending while make like more difficult for every other club.

If city are found guilty they should be absolutely hammered with punishments for how they’ve acted.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396061#Comment_121396061

That's fine until you factor in the reality of the situation which is that the means by which City have financed their sporting success are strictly prohibited by the Premier League.

There's a reason that the richest football club in the world (Newcastle United) haven't been spending like the proverbial Pools winners they are, and that's down to the looming catastrophic repercussions facing Manchester City, they're learning from the mistakes made there albeit whilst indulging in some quite similar practices re sponsorship.

City aren't just using their owners wealth to buy success, they're purposefully concealing how they are structuring their sponsorship deals, how they are paying their managers (and yes this includes the anointed one, Pep) with under the table deals and fees for makey-uppy work that amounts to the type of "no show" jobs that wouldn't be out of place on the Sopranos.

It's just a pity that City will be able to put off their fate by tying the Premier League up in legal red tape for years before this finally gets resolved.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395907#Comment_121395907

No and Yes. Which isn't a great answer. I'll try to clarify.

Firstly it seems from Incognito Man's link that the rules of the EPL state that an independent 3-person panel is the final arbiter of guilt and subsequent punishment. And as City signed up to those rules then they'd appear not to have a case to bring it to a court of law.

So technically they'd need to do a 2-step process. First bring it to a court of law in the hope of declaring that the EPL internal process contravenes actual law. That a decision like forced relegation or expulsion can't be made via some internal process. If they win that case then they can bring it to a court of law to examine the whole case. The first part (even with appeals) should be relatively quick and if they lose it ends the process. The second part, it it gets there, would be what would end up taking years to complete.

Heighway61

Being a part of The Premier League would they not be litigating against themselves? Can that happen and the status quo remain? Just thinking out loud...

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396061#Comment_121396061

Do you honestly think any non-sportswashing entity would buy City for £4 billion pounds? Not a hope imo. The whole issue with City is that they actually don't run a business—anyone running a proper business does not carry on like City with complete disregard for genuine proitability.

& you can't make a completely disingenuous comparison between City / chelsea and United / Arsenal and just slip in almost as an afterthought that United earned their money the right way. It's a completely bogus comparison. Equivocating any perceived crookednes with United's dealings in the past with City's current shenanigans is laughable.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make tbh.

y0ssar1an22

spurs in trouble now for selling defoe to pompey all those years ago. apparently they didn't use a registered agent which is not allowed.

harry cant remember, and no one in the FA knows what happened (they dont know why it want investigated even though they knew about it) but are looking into it now.

doc_17

Without wanting to offend solicitors that may be posters, I’m reminded of many old jokes about them.

City are massively tainted. But they don’t care. They are cheats. But they don’t care. Pep wouldn’t come to a team that had to restricted his spending again after Bayern. To me, it has tainted his legacy. In Barca, he was at his peak. Inherited a golden generation and made a few good buys. But ever since, if you asked me to do a word association with Pep, one word would come to the fore - dishonest.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396579#Comment_121396579

My points are that this is no longer just football. It's a multinational business these days.

The fact is division one/Premier league has been crooked for years.

You deciding that because one is less crooked than the other that it's not comparable is hypocritical.

We all know that City have cheated their way, financially, to being a powerhouse in football. It doesn't mean that cheating by others should be dismissed. They all led to league titles.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396629#Comment_121396629

It was the dog. 😁

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396762#Comment_121396762

The same Pep that was banned from playing football for using performance enhancing drugs, the same Pep that was manager of Barcelona during the period of time that is now under investigation for bribing referees and the same Pep that is now manager of Man City under investigation for fraudulent financial activity during his managerial spell there. No, it can't be!

Heighway61

It really is no longer football as we know it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67490620

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396795#Comment_121396795

Can you outline to me what cheating United did to lead them to win any of their league titles? I'm genuinely not aware of this.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397097#Comment_121397097

Go watch the Panorama episode about them.

Infoseeker1975

UAE are far bigger than the Premier League; they have leverage outside of football with other business transactions.

Nothing will happen with City.

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397158#Comment_121397158

So you're saying there's a panorama episode about United that highlights cheating/corrupt behaviour that led to them winning league titles? Must have missed that one.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397158#Comment_121397158

Surely it would take 2 seconds for you to type the words:

"Manchester United cheated by...."

Doping? Financial doping? Bribing referees? Breaking the legs of opposition players?

You have had plenty of long posts defending city, surely you can spare a dozen words to clarify your claim about United?

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396061#Comment_121396061

I somewhat agree that if an owner wants to put in money why should they be stopped. As long as they put the money in abd it's not a debt that could cripple that club it's tough to argue against.

But...

1. There are, currently, rules that city are accused of braleaking, 115 times. They signed up to abd agreed to abide by the rules.

2. If you want to argue to abolish the rules (they'd still have allegedly broken them) then you risk absolutely destroying the league, much worse than it arguably is. Imo ffp is needed to try maintain some level of competitiveness in the league.

If this is what city do when there are rules in place, imagine what they'd do if given free reign to do whatever they wanted.

eagle eye

I'm tired of this.

People claim they don't know things when it suits them. So they want me to go and prove it.

The same people know all about what City have done but don't have any proof. That's okay though.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397272#Comment_121397272

When have I defended City?

By saying the club has grown and is catching up fast on all the bigger clubs? Is that defending them?

How about where I've said they cheated their way to becoming a big club? Did you not see the many times I've said things like that?

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396951#Comment_121396951

why did 7 clubs block it

Are they all keeping their powder dry in case they also get multi-club owners?

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397283#Comment_121397283

I'm sorry but if you're making unsubstantiated claims, maybe it's reasonable to be asked to link to some kind of back up to your claims? I have genuinely never heard anything about United doing anything corrupt that has led to them winning league titles.

If it makes you feel better we'll go with the 'alleged' 115 FFP rules broken by City.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396951#Comment_121396951

who are the 5 hold outs? i know city and newcastle will be 2 of the 7.

bonkers that is.

do not get it at all. and it shouldn't even need a vote. it should not be allowed.

utd may have been one so they can get nice players.

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397420#Comment_121397420

.....

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1727041274987807230?t=py-Bxark0FpVQmsvNSLA9w&s=19

noodler

Maybe as simple as individual owners not wanting to reduce the value of their own assets (club) by voluntarily reducing it's sale appeal?

Heighway61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397420#Comment_121397420

Palace and Chelsea owners are multi-holders so probably those two anyway.

Nope, as above.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397283#Comment_121397283

I never asked you to prove anything, I simply asked you to actually state out loud what you are saying.

You said United were cheating, but you won't say how. So why not just say what the cheating was? If you actually can.

poppers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397578#Comment_121397578

could it be that since the club is near on billion pound in debt is running up that loss while still spending huge amounts on players could be seen as another form of financial doping.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397434#Comment_121397434

Any sympathy people had for Everton will probably fall away. They deserve their 10 points, and maybe more to come, for financial cheating/mismanagement

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397671#Comment_121397671

Could be. Perhaps the poster that said other clubs were cheating will be able to give the cheating a description.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397578#Comment_121397578

You made a statement that I was defending City.

I responded to that but you didn't apologise so as far as I'm concerned that's the end of me responding to you.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396629#Comment_121396629

Yea Spurs in serious trouble over this one.

Seems they will be stripped of all the trophies they won after the Dafoe signing...... 😏

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397578#Comment_121397578

It’s about Fergie’s son Jason who was an agent for some players at utd. Goes back nearly 20 years and nothing untoward was ever found to have happened. It looked shady at the time and Utd stopped agents acting on behalf of the club and player at the same time, I think.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397756#Comment_121397756

How convenient.

Dozens of paragraphs handwaving away the crimes of city, but can't spare a dozen words to clarify the cheating you say other clubs were doing.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397158#Comment_121397158

What the one about their debt that was in fact a general look at football finances? Or the one about how Ferguson's son was acting as an agent despite not being an agent and being paid by the club in some way when he had nothing to with transfers and was basically the club being conned out of money .

Like the latter did not look good for Ferguson, but it wasn't any sort of sporting cheating.

Maybe go watch it yourself

whiterebel

Man U have a debt of over £1bn and can spend away, Chelsea the same under Abramovich, Brighton owe their owner over £500M, Leicester allowed to wipe debts to the owner, and then become "plucky Leicester" to win the p`l and FA Cup. To me, all clubs are doing it to varying degrees.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397778#Comment_121397778

What's convenient is how you just dismissed my response to you regarding your false accusations that I was defending City.

Instead you go and accuse me of defending City again when I've said multiple times that they cheated their way to where they are now.

You must have no morals and it's obvious you can't read or else comprehend things.

theoneeyedman

Some amount of whataboutery around here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398370#Comment_121398370

Not a surprise for any old timers here.

Roll on the weekend.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397759#Comment_121397759

Well they shouldnt be allowed have the green goblin

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398355#Comment_121398355

You have posted multiple times since the question was asked, and yet still you can't just say the words:

"Other clubs were cheating because they were (insert reason here)."

It is very transparent.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398344#Comment_121398344

I can't help but laugh a bit when people claim that United can spend away.

Yes they have wasted a shocking amount of money, but Wout Weghorst? Sabitzer, Reguilon and Amrabat on loan? Jonny Evans resigned?

Can you imagine City signing these bargain basement players under any circumstances?

United wasted their money and now it is gone and they have a real problem, it is the polar **** opposite of what City are doing.

whiterebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398563#Comment_121398563

Hojlund, Antony, Onana? They might be buying rubbish, but they've still spent €400M under ten hag. A billion in debt and they are allowed to spend nearly half that again.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398344#Comment_121398344

Yeah, all that debt is really benefiting Utd alright. Nearly 1.5 billion taken out of the club in dividends and loan repayments has absolutely helped them alright.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398547#Comment_121398547

You can't admit you made false accusations. You've had ample time to check up and see that I said multiple times that City cheated but it obviously doesn't suit your agenda.

I'm not responding to you anymore.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398690#Comment_121398690

Don't respond to me then, but why not have a little dignity and clarify to everybody else why you stated that all the other clubs were also cheating.

It would only take one line, trying to dodge it by pretend crying that I am being mean to you is a bit sad really.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398629#Comment_121398629

Nobody at all denies that they have spent and wasted money, but they are sitting there with Jonny Evans at the back and no back up striker because unlike City, they do not have a bottomless pit of cheaty money.

United actually do follow FFP, if anybody has evidence to the contrary I would be happy to see it.