General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

thebaz

I'd love the to see Villa win league, be similar to Leicester , I know they are bigger team , but be good for league to break the City monopoly

Bounty Hunter

I'm still not going to go mad and start talking about a title challenge but especially in a season when 5th could get you in...Champions League we (Villa) are coming for you!

Your welcome Liverpool! They really have to have loved Villa's last 2 results.

Was a lot of talk of Utd being only 3 pts behind City but City aren't who they are competing against as at best Utd are trying to get CL football - 8 points behind Villa now (and they play each other this month)

jacool

Its strange, but I cannot warm to the underdogs Villa in the same way I did Leicester City.

All I see is the cynicism of Martinez and loads of time-wasting that just goes unpunished.

I also want to know how you win a penalty now as the referee who saw that handball didn't see Rice getting pulled to the ground in the box in the first half.

I'd love a weekend where there are 20 penalties in every game and then players realise they have to defend properly.

I would also like to see a replay of the disallowed goal again as I actually thought in real time that the ball hit Matty Cash on the arm first.

This does looks like the kind of season where it could be in the mix all the way through, as no one team is in anyway visibly ahead of the others and looking utterly unbeatable.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476591#Comment_121476591

It did hit Cash on the arm first. But his arm is by his side so it's not handball. Havertz wouldn't be handball either except he scored.

They have made an absolute mess of the handball rule. Handball is only handball depending on what happens next.

I don't believe for a second that the ref saw handball in real time considering it took a slow motion replay to see it grazed the arm.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476459#Comment_121476459

Villa kicked them off the park. Let it flow of course

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476616#Comment_121476616

Realistically we’re only gonna hear more about the handball rule (which has been in place for quite a while now) because it’s Arsenal and they find a decision to whinge about in almost every game under Arteta.

Went in to their thread for a giggle at the talk of corruption etc.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476591#Comment_121476591

I didn't see the disallowed goal but not all balls hitting the defenders hand is a penalty whereas if the ball hits the goal scorers hand then it's always a free out. I'm assuming they'd have checked for the penalty for handball for Arsenal after disallowed the goal for handball and deemed it not a penalty.

djan

As the rules are the Havertz one was correctly chalked off but regardless the kick of Jesus's calf stopping him from getting clean contact on ball after Villa defender completely misses the ball and whacks him was a stone wall.

Given in Liverpool game and not here. Really is all about consistency regardless of what team it is and bad decisions of rival teams should not be celebrated just because it suits some fans. I get it creates engagement on socials and studio lads have something to talk about but it's just annoying.

Not to harp on about it as it effects every team but strange how you don't see these things so often in other sports.

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476642#Comment_121476642

Saw that too. Douglas Luiz did not make any contact with the ball.

I get the feeling from the last few season's that Jesus and Salah would actually have to be shot with some kind of weapon to get close to getting a decision in the box. Jesus does himself no favours by 100% whinging all the time. I don't ever see Salah complain, so I guess referees just do not like him. Maybe the referee's summer holiday jaunt got held up and robbed near the pyramids.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476635#Comment_121476635

Every team whinges about the ref when decisions go against them. Don't pretend arsenal are special.

But it's crazy that the defender handles a ball, then an attacker handles a ball, and only if the attacker scores is it a freeagainst them. If it goes out for a corner then it's play on.

The rule has been in place for a long time but that doesn't mean it is a good rule.

artanevilla

Arsenal had 101 minutes of football to win today and they failed to do so.

There seems to be an attitude at some clubs that they have a devine right to win football games and when they don't it's everyone else's fault, Arteta drives that at Arsenal with his comments which is why he wasn't on the bench today.

djan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476664#Comment_121476664

Interesting allright to see Salah getting minced out of it often similair to Saka/Jesus but little given.

It would take one game where they'd go all out on the fouls and pens like they did in the WC with shirt pulling and antics inside the box would stop. It would lead to way more goals so engagement would be higher too.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476671#Comment_121476671

He wasn’t on the bench today because he celebrated a last minute winner by leaving his box.

You are talking nonsense.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476666#Comment_121476666

I definitely wasn’t making the argument that it’s a good rule. Handball refereeing in general is very difficult to understand and follow. Today the application of the rules (which was done correctly most importantly) went in my teams favour so I’m happy.

I agree that everyone is biased towards their team but crying corruption and conspiracy when bad rules are applied correctly is a special kind of hysterical.

djan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476671#Comment_121476671

In all fairness they sliced through them often and had a lot of big chances but with such lackluster finishing paid the price. Add to that two valid claims overturned and you'll get a lot of frustration.

Every club is like that, hardly expect them to be OK with incorrect calls (the handball one was fine btw). I guarantee the same response when Villa get decisions against them.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476680#Comment_121476680

I've seen no one from arsenal claim the goal should have been allowed.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476697#Comment_121476697

No, but they don’t understand why they don’t get a penalty

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476671#Comment_121476671

What an utterly dreadful argument

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476770#Comment_121476770

Seems like a pretty bang on one to me.

AdamD

The game being 101 minutes and Arsenal not winning means the rest is irrelevant? Yeah, load of utter nonsense.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476860#Comment_121476860

The rest being the correctly disallowed goal as per the rules of the game?

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476790#Comment_121476790

Apart from the fact Arteta wasn’t there tonight because he celebrated a goal.

So it’s not pretty bang on in the slightest.

CSF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476893#Comment_121476893

Oh, I thought it was for an accumulation of yellow cards. Silly me.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476679#Comment_121476679

It was for an accumulation of yellow cards, not for celebrating a goal.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476938#Comment_121476938

An accumulation which the last one was for celebrating a goal.

I don’t think he got a yellow card for thinking his team have a divine right to win because it’s his team.

Maybe you could point that one out to me?

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476697#Comment_121476697

Their fans seem to think it should have stood though.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476947#Comment_121476947

Which wouldn't have been a suspension had he not been given cards for moaning at the referee in previous games.

It's that type of behaviour that drives the attitude of "it's everyone else's fault bar our own that we couldn't win".

You could even see it in his post match interview today when he "refused" to speak about his "big opinion" on what was the correct decision, verified by VAR and also clarified by everyone who knows the laws of the game. But no, Arsenal didn't fail to score, fail take any chances or keep a clean sheet, it was the referee what won it for Villa.

That is what I mean by this self perception that some managers of some clubs have that they have some sort of devine right to win football games because they are pre-season contenders for the title and the other 15 or so teams in the league are just there to roll over and have their bellys rubbed.

It's not just Arteta and not just Arsenal either.

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476616#Comment_121476616

Nketiah scored, not Havertz

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476999#Comment_121476999

You're wrong there, every article or post about the goal says Havertz scored it.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476679#Comment_121476679

That was only one of his 3 yellow cards that led to his suspension, the others were for complaining. So it is you my friend who are talking nonsense.

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476987#Comment_121476987

In Arteta's defence - did I type that !! he must have seen this and thought - penalty.

I would like to know what rules of football say that this is not a penalty. Douglas Luiz kicks through his leg.

SlickRic

Jesus probably should've been a penalty.

Havertz goal was never going to be given, especially after the referee said no-goal. It was never going to be overturned.

What people find annoying about Arteta, I think, is he treats marginal calls against his team like cardinal sins, while acting like a complete lunatic on the sideline. It just wares on you after a while.

Nothing is ever his or his team's fault.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477041#Comment_121477041

So he didn’t get yellow cards for thinking his team have a divine right to win as the original post said.

That clears that up.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477141#Comment_121477141

So basically like most managers then.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476999#Comment_121476999

Nope, Havertz put it in with his toe, could see from the angle behind him when slowed down. Also ran off celebrating like he was the one who scored.

The Rooster

Actually if he had let Eddie score it, I wonder would VAR have allowed it, on the basis both Havertz handballs were natural (or whatever the wording is) ?

Maybe that’s what took so long with VAR, as it was obvious Havertz had handled but hard to see who knocked it in?

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477356#Comment_121477356

No. I think he's particularly bad. But as I said, it's what I think.

And I think there is objectively no comparison on the sideline stuff. I don't give a toss about the celebrating, but I do think his constant waving, coaching and remonstrating through the game (not just on big moments) is waring to watch for fans.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477722#Comment_121477722

Jesus Christ. So the exact same as Klopp or Pep then?

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477803#Comment_121477803

I don't think Klopp is as bad as the other two to be honest. Maybe he is more "in-the-face-of-the-4th-official" crazy.

It is ridiculous though. If I was paying people €250k a week, I'd be thinking that they might/should be able to do their jobs.

Slightly-ish off-topic - What I find worse is letting non-players onto the pitch to celebrate goals. I'd be booking them all.

Arteta comes across as not having much personality. His default face is a whiney one so it's always amusing to non arsenal fans to see him having a bit of a moan.

He can throw it back in everyone's face when he wins a major trophy.

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477803#Comment_121477803

Sure. If you think so.

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477906#Comment_121477906

The irony of this from a Liverpool supporter 😂😂😂

Comical

505_

Klopp, Pep and Arteta are by far the three worst managers in the league for sideline behaviour. Klopp and Pep also prone to be horrible to the press. Klopp very spikey at the best of times and pep loves some unnecessary sarcasm to answer a simple question. Two brilliant managers though.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477722#Comment_121477722

I actually don't care about the sideline stuff. It's definitely marmitey, I happen to enjoy it but I can see why non-Arsenal fans (and even some Arsenal fans tbf) could dislike it.

What I took issue with was this idea that he's the only manager that acts like a wrong decision is a cardinal sin, which is complete and utter nonsense. Most managers do it!

OwaynOTT

Arteta is by far the worse and Klopp and Pep are no angels.

Arteta is at it nonstop for the whole game. In the way of opposing players. Running up and down like a madman.

but harsh he got banned for celebrating but he likely should of have gotten his third yellow prior to that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478045#Comment_121478045

Yup. No difference between the 3 of them, by far the worst in the whole league. I don't even care about it tbh but to single out Arteta is laughable.

theoneeyedman

The difference about Arteta though is that he doesn't stay 'in his box', he's often up and down the line and has even interfered with the football at times, for example on throw in and stuff. It's counterproductive I think too, like he tends to transfer his manic anxiety onto th players at times, and then he's not there like yesterday, they haven't developed the decision making side and leadership they get from him spoon feeding and micromanaging them through games.

CSF

Weird one that all the non-Arsenal posters (who largely support different teams for the most part I believe) posted here say he’s the worst, and all the Arsenal posters are adamant that they’re the exact same.

I’ve no love for Pep or Klopp or City or Liverpool, but in terms of antics they are nowhere near as bad or as often as Arteta.

doc_17

Pep, Klopp and Arteta know that putting as much pressure as possible on the referee works. Even in the age of VAR. But what sets Arteta a little apart is him mini coaching team talks whenever there is a stoppage. He was at it a good bit last season but I wonder was there a clampdown on it? I remember Ramsdale pretending to lose a contact lens and the players were all straight over to Arteata. He’s really unlikeable, as is Pep and Klopp unless you’re a supporter of their team.

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477906#Comment_121477906

And you've touched on something there.

Arteta is trying to give off the aura of an elite manager without actually proving to be one yet.

Every time his team fails, it's someone else's fault. Even last night ... he referenced the decisions with his 'clear and obvious' stuff and also told everyone who'd listen that nobody had done what his team had just done to Villa.

Klopp will tell us his team has played badly. His rants can be annoying, but he has self awareness there on some level.

Arteta on the other hand gives off the impression that he believes his shít doesn't stink, and it irks people. Because the chap ain't elite yet. He could well become elite, but he's some stuff to achieve first.