Pushing buttons

RobertFoster

I was out for a spin today and in that 70+km I had to press 3 buttons in order to proceed. Two of the 3 stood out as they felt awkward and poorly placed, and they got me thinking of other buttons I have to press when cycling.

The first one I got to today was at the Wooden Bridge in Dollymount. Coming from town the button is on the right side of the path, meaning you've to cross the inbound lane twice if you want to press it. Technically it's a shared space as the track lines stop a few metres back so you're not crossing lanes to press the button but I still feel like I'm encroaching. I don't tend to cycle at peak commuting time so I can only imagine what this is like when cycle traffic is heavier.

The second button I had to press was at St. Fintan's HS. Not awkward as there's buttons on both sides of the crossing, and it feels more like turning right at a T junction rather than looking for permission to continue on straight.

Similar to the first one, crossing the R123 to continue on straight on the Baldoyle/Portmarnock Greenway requires you to press a button. It's another shared space like the Wooden Bridge, but at least there's a button on both sides. It felt awkward today as I chose the right hand (cycle side) button rather than the left (pedestrian side) button, then a couple more cyclists arrived at the junction (one stopped directly to my left, the other coming towards us) requiring some lateral movement when the lights changed.

A couple of bonus buttons that have come to mind:

• Crossing the Ratoath Rd. to get from one part of Tolka Valley Park to another: Kissing gate, (slow) Toucan crossing, kissing gate (at least the park is nice)
• Whoever designed the right turn at Heuston must have really long arms. For some reason I struggle to reach the button and keep my front wheel out of the bus lane.

Is having to use buttons an acceptable way to get around by bike? Are there any design guidelines relating to them or is it just another "ah, sure..." anything goes (like bad cycle tracks in general)? From memory, the track along the Grand Canal doesn't require having to press buttons. Either the light sequence is set given how busy it can be, or the coil/sensor works well enough to not need buttons.

Whenever I've to press a button to proceed I imagine the designers see the infrastructure as for pedestrians on bikes rather than for cyclists.

Mercian Pro

You can avoid the Rathoath Rd. one by taking a detour under the road bridge at the Tolka. Only one kissing gate but some pretty unpleasant smells!

On my route home from town, there is one at the top of North Frederick St. for use if you are turning right on to Dorset Street or straight on to Blessington St. At the top of O'Connell St. there is an induction coil but a button would be preferable (or adjusting the sensitivity of the coil) as I've been stuck there for two traffic cycles before joining other cyclists taking a chance dodging traffic and pedestrians.

cunavalos

The worst one I have noticed is inbound on the cycle lane on the N11 just after Cherrywood Business Park. The button must be on a pole in the grass close to 3 metres off the cycle path. I wouldn't normally be down that direction so don't know how long it has been like that

RobertFoster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723850#Comment_120723850

I've gone under the bridge a few times. It's either eerily quiet or full of people fishing.

AndrewJRenko

I don’t know any of the junctions mentioned but am I missing something obvious here? Why would cyclists be pressing buttons for pedestrians in the first place?

Weepsie

I presume they are at the end of cycle lanes.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727893#Comment_120727893

because sometimes cyclists are treated like pedestrians.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728420#Comment_120728420

Very true but I wonder why a cyclist on a 70k spin would treat themselves as a pedestrian in the first place, I'd just be on the road.

As a slight aside has anyone else noticed that you seem to get far more respected by motorists when you're dressed accordingly as a cyclist out purely for a spin?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728243#Comment_120728243

Again, forgive me if my lack of knowledge of these particular locations is the problem here, but don’t most cycle lanes end by leading the cyclist back into traffic?

Okay, I had a look at the first location on Google Maps, and I can see how the button is out of reach of a cyclist. But that is “by design” presumably. Why would a cyclist want or need to press the pedestrian button?

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729103#Comment_120729103

Because the cycle lane continues on the other side of the crossing, it doesn’t throw them back onto the road. It’s an off-road cycle path on the left hand side of the road with two lanes

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728518#Comment_120728518

That stretch along the coast is nearly 10km of almost uninterrupted cycle path, bar the couple junctions mentioned above, that’s in decent condition vs the road which is fairly poor. Would rather take that path every day, in fact some club spins even use it

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729228#Comment_120729228

So why do you need to press the button? Do the lights not change for cyclists anyway?

blackbox

If you have enough energy to cycle 70km, pressing 3 buttons is hardly a significant additional challenge.

First world problem.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729295#Comment_120729295

maybe they will eventually, or maybe pressing the button hastens the change.

it should be remarked upon that cycling from alfie byrne road (at the eastpoint causeway) to fintan's school in sutton is a 9km cycle where you only interact with a single set of lights, and cross two roads (one of which is at that set of lights). that's the sort of insfrastructure we should pray for.

Dr_Colossus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729295#Comment_120729295

I go through the one at Heuston daily (council did a great job making a bad intersection worse for cyclists but it's less hassle that trying to cross multiple lanes of traffic where there isn't even space to filter anymore). Certainly in the initial number of months the lights didn't change for cyclists if the button wasn't pressed, was caught a few times left standing until I was forced to press the button and asking others at the top of the queue to do similar. More recently the lights do change without the button being pressed but it's still quite a dangerous section with drivers breaking the red lights and traffic straddling/blocking the crossing.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729295#Comment_120729295

Example - If travelling northbound from Santry to Swords (R132) the cycle track south of the airport leads you into the airport where you have to push a button and wait to cross the junction. The powers that be do not want cyclists at the junction proper. Most of us just leave the cycle track at the second last exit and queue as normal with the motorists.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729517#Comment_120729517

Do you mean making the right turn from the south quays over the bridge towards Parkgate St? I've done that turn regularly, and never pressed the button in my life. It can be slow, depending on the timing - but it does change.

Dr_Colossus

Yes, that very turn, I'm not familiar with the others mentioned. It does change now alright, once the straight ahead for cars into Heuston St itself turns red the lights for us pesky cyclists then turns green allowing transition of the junction and your continued journey on towards the Phoenix Park. However for the first few months those lights were in operation you only got a green cyclist light if the button was pressed, I was occasionally caught at the junction waiting for an additional cycle. As in the straight ahead lights into Heuston turned red, the right filter lights for traffic remained green but then the left traffic got a green again when you'd expect them to remain red and cyclists allowed to cross both sections.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731209#Comment_120731209

Is there a cyclist specific light at that junction? I’ve never noticed them.

Dr_Colossus

yes, it's quite idiotic. There's a cyclist crossing with specific lights to cross the road towards Heuston and again over the bridge and then a separate pedestrian lights about 10m further on which are on a slightly different sequence. As in pedestrians get a green light to cross the road towards Heuston but the cycle lights remain red as cars get priority to go straight into Heuston, it's only when those car lights turn red that the cycle lights then go green allowing crossing of both sections.

kirving

I was waiting there a few weeks ago. Pressed the button, bike light went green but a bus was blocking my path. Taxi behind the bus tried to follow the bus through the red light. I moved out in front, and pointed at his red light. He started shouting abuse out the window that I wandered into the road. Didn't have my GoPro that day unfortunatley.

I guess the problem really is that a button where the green is below would be a hazard for handlebars. At the very least the stop line should be where I've put it below IMO. Is there some issue with induction loops or something?

I see some junctions now with a camera (cheaper than an induction loop) but even in the car it drives me insane since it doesn't react about 20% of the time and I need to reverse. At least it has a tiny red LED to show when it's detected something.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120733456#Comment_120733456

I never stay in the cycle lane if I’m turning right towards Parkgate St. I leave the cycle lane at the bus stop, and cross the lanes to join vehicular traffic turning right over the bridge.

Is this not easier than pressing buttons?

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120740238#Comment_120740238

I normally would do that yes, but was with someone not experienced in city traffic, and it was fairly busy that day. L

It's very easy to become cynical cycling in Dublin, about everything from pushing buttons to nearly being minced by blind drivers! Just gotta fight your corner!

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724215#Comment_120724215

I know it well and always wondered WTF they were thinking

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747331#Comment_120747331

Before switching to the parks, that was on my commute and I've never noticed! I generally just go with the main carriageway lights - it's the set before that I did have to regularly press.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747239#Comment_120747239

I've tried the right turn from the cycle lane a few times since it was suggested here. The first few times, it seemed to switch to green almost instantaneously for me, but maybe that was just lucky. I've also had to wait 2-3 minutes for the full sequence of the lights to complete at times.

The buttons are a bit strange, with the left light seemingly continuously list, and the right light with what seems to be a black sticker obscuring 99% of it. Any idea of the rationale here?