President Biden closes gun control speech in USA with 'God save the Queen'

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746102#Comment_120746102

I have presented on the thread links to articles from experts explaining how a stammer can lead to some of the behaviour being called out here as a sign of cognitive decline. Their expert opinion outweighs any single person's experience of it unless you can show - which you wont - that all sufferers experience the condition in the same way.

What Biden said is much less specific and does not have general applicability to all of the verbal behaviour alleged on the thread here to show cognitive decline.

So unless you can show to the contrarty wrt expert opinion your claims have no standing.

Biden has been making verbal gaffes for decades. He has used the the phrase God Save The Queen in domestic speeches in the past.

This entire line of argument is scurrilous.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746102#Comment_120746102

don’t teach your grandmother to suck eggs

Thanks never heard that one

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746140#Comment_120746140

Ok, don’t take Biden’s word for it or a stammerers experience.

Just tell me. How does a stammer make one believe one’s son died in the Iraq war?

If you can explain that, as an expert on stammering and its effect on cognition.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746161#Comment_120746161

You're the President and you have to dance around the Government's inability to fundamentally acknowledge, account for, or adequately treat the link between the military and certain veteran cancer syndromes. Beau Biden died of brain cancer 6 years after touring in Iraq and was exposed to burn pits.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/beau-biden-die-in-iraq/

https://www.wtap.com/2021/06/22/dying-veteran-targets-burn-pits-source-cancer/

That's how.

Ok, don’t take Biden’s word for it or a stammerers experience.

Then you allegedly have something in common with POTUS: that surely wouldn't mean you're both in cognitive decline, right? Therefore, where is the proof either of you are?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746132#Comment_120746132

Your evidence is just his age? What standard of evidence is that? You complain about goalposts but you aren't even aiming at a net, just kicking an empty can around a field.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746161#Comment_120746161

Where has anyone on the thread said any such thing? You are the one linking that claim to stammering, no one else. It paints a clear picture as to the credibility of any and all claims made in your posts.

You tell us. Why does Biden think his sons death is linked to the Iraq war? It is your claim. How does it relate to a stammer or cognitive decline?

This is an entirely disingenuous line of argument. Disgusting deliberately misrepresenting Bidens view of his sons death to try to score a point in a post here. Morally and intellectually bankrupt accusation.

If that is how you have to make your argument you have none.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746150#Comment_120746150

Speaking of which isn't purpose of thread trying to tell grandpa Joe to suck eggs?

Can everyone on thread roll a d20 for awareness on that pls?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746202#Comment_120746202

Tell me does cognition usually decline with age? Therefore is it not logical to assume an 80 year old has experienced some cognitive decline?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746203#Comment_120746203

It’s ridiculous to say someone died in a war when they didn’t.

If someone smoked in Vietnam and subsequently died of lung cancer would it be legitimate to claim they died in Vietnam.

Of course not.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746265#Comment_120746265

Tell me does cognition usually decline with age?

Does it? I'm not a subject matter expert on cognitive decline, are you?

I thought you would provide evidence, not a sophistic argument.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746273#Comment_120746273

So you are denying that age is a factor in cognitive decline. Fine.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746281#Comment_120746281

Argumentum ad hominem. Droll.

Attacking the personality or knowledgebase of the skeptic to your argument doesn't move the actual basis of your argument forward a molecule. I could be as dumb as a brick, but you still haven't shown to any actual standard this specific 80 year old, not just any possible 80 year old, but this guy, has cognitive decline.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746286#Comment_120746286

It isn’t an ad hominem. No more than asking a flat earther if they deny the earth is round is.

nullzero

The amount of back and forth on whether or not a man is at an age where maybe the cheese may possibly be sliding off of his cracker (to use a vulgar form of humour) is nauseating.

At 80 any human being should be winding down and enjoying the time they have left and let's face it at 77 Donald Trump should probably be thinking along the same lines.

The last decade or so has been a relentless mess of identity politics and the two people who ended up at the eye of that storm are still at the forefront of everyones attention.

Maybe it would be better if Biden went for the pipe and slippers option and the end of his four years and Trump joined him so maybe we can move beyond this pathetic excuse for political discourse.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746291#Comment_120746291

You didn't ask, though. You put words in my mouth: "So you are denying that age is a factor in cognitive decline. Fine."

If you could actually establish a proof that Joe Biden has cognitive decline, you would be doing that, and there would be no logical need to put any words in anyone else's mouth, the argument would speak for itself, right.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746270#Comment_120746270

Veterans who died from Agent Orange aren't War casualties? Gonna part ways with you on that spin of yours as well.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746270#Comment_120746270

Ok, so now it is "ridiculous". All pretence of falsely linking it to a stammer or cognitive decline has been dropped. You aren't even trying anymore. It shines a light on any claim made by you on this thread alright. You have no evidence, your bluff was challenged on the thread and you know it, so now your argument degenerates into this.

He has shared that view of the cause for his son's death for many years now. It actually disproves the entirely scurrilous spin you try to put on it.

Your comparison is ridiculous. He wasn't just "smoking" in Iraq. In Biden's view his exposure was directly linked to his service in Iraq. He lost him to the Iraq war.

To try to compare it to "smoking" the utter lack of credibility in your statements.

It's plain your agenda here is nothing more than a hatchet job against Biden, motivated by malice. Trying to exploit his son's death to weaponise against him. Disgusting accusation, entirely without merit or foundation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746286#Comment_120746286

This is a common misconception about Ad hominem. Ad hominem is not the same as a personal attack. Ad hominem is when you use a personal attack as the primary basis of undermining someone's position.

If he said, "Your argument is false because Overheal is [insert personal attack]", then that would be an example of Ad hominem.

But the user didn't do that at all. He said you appear to be denying the role of age when it comes to cognitive decline. That's so far from an Ad hominem.

So you may disagree with his point, but he is not guilty of launching an Ad hominem against you.

Incidentally, you do appear to at least minimize the role of age when it comes to cognitive decline.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746320#Comment_120746320

But it at this point, is the primary basis, because user has abandoned an evidence based approach in lieu of straw manning, attacking other posters by putting words in their mouth, and engaging as you would say, in sophistry, to undermine my position, the commonly held position, that Joe Biden doesn't have cognitive decline issues. They're engaging in undermining that, through these methods, rather than proof that Joe Biden has any such issue. I thank you for attempting to clarify ad hominem here but your own clarification explains that I'm on point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746329#Comment_120746329

Would you agree that anyone at the age of 80 would at least be experiencing some form of cognitive decline?

Because answering that would help clear the whole thing up.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746316#Comment_120746316

Joe Biden is telling people at election rallies that his son died in the Iraq war yet I am the one exploiting his sons death?

Take the scales from your eyes.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746341#Comment_120746341

Yes you are now just slinging whatever mud you can find against Biden now not even trying to link it to cognitive decline. Biden has shared that view of his sons death for many years now... he sincerely sees him as a casualty of thst war from his exposure to high risk cancer causing chemicals. As much as someone wounded in combat who dies later from complications.

Your mask has slipped. Your agenda all along here has been a hatchet job on Biden nothing more which paints a picture as to the sincerity and credibility of any and all claims made by you on the thread - it was a pretence all along.

The extent of the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of your attacks on Biden are now plain for all to see.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746335#Comment_120746335

You could say the same about soneone over 65 or 70.

So that is not the question. The question is whether he is fit for office. Or significantly less fit than when first elected such that it materially impacts his position.

We have seen nothing on the thread evidencing that.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746314#Comment_120746314

Are the millions who were exposed to agent orange and died in the decades after the war included in Vietnam war dead? Are there names on the Memorial Wall in Washington? Did they die in the Vietnam War?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746335#Comment_120746335

Would you agree that anyone at the age of 80 would at least be experiencing some form of cognitive decline?

I don't, that's an assumption that doesn't jive with scientific method at all. Especially to single out ONE public individual.

If your opinion is that 100% of the above 80 population has cognitive decline, then we are not in agreement. Folks can get into their 100s and not experience cognitive decline, in the assumed parlance of this thread for such a nebulous term. You might say "Yeah well they are the exception" - egg-sucking grandpa Joe is the President of the United States, by definition he is the exception, too.

Arguing such broad stroke to strike at one man defies logic. I cannot infer things about you personally, based on mere statistics, either. You wouldn't assume racial stereotypes about your own neighbor based on racial statistics, why would you believe your neighbor is in cognitive decline based on ageist statistics?

According to health academica, 'cognitive decline' (their term, the scientists) can begin happening after 'mental peak' in our 30s ('Kids, this will be important in a sec'), and can begin inflecting for people as early as 45 or 70.

What are the requirements to be President, let's look, it's in Article II of the United States Consitution:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Therefore, certainly are most if not all of the Republican, Democratic, and Independent and Third Party candidates almost all certainly prey to this argument of technical cognitive decline, nevermind the fact that technically anyone eligible for president is de facto presumed to already be experiencing cognitive decline.

Therefore, as I said, I don't find that sophistic argument to be valid.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746341#Comment_120746341

It wasn't an election rally, or a rally period, but you would know that wouldn't you if your concern about this topic was sincere right.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746400#Comment_120746400

Now you're getting it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/magazine/laos-agent-orange-vietnam-war.html

SFA to do with POTUS gaffes, but folks might learn a thing or two.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746422#Comment_120746422

Which one wasn’t an election rally? Is a stump speech not a speech given while electioneering?

https://nypost.com/2022/11/01/biden-again-wrongly-says-son-beau-died-in-iraq-in-stumbling-florida-speech/amp/

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746539#Comment_120746539

Irrelevent nonsense. You are splitting hairs about where a speech was given but at same time deliberately misrepresenting why Biden believes it.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746429#Comment_120746429

That article is behind a paywall so I can’t read it.

Is this an attempt by you to reinterpret the definition of those killed in war so that Biden’s claim that his son died in Iraq, in the Iraq War is legitimised?