Looking tor a long rifle range to visit.

session savage

Hi folks,

I have a couple of questions I hope someone can answer.

I was hoping to visit a shooting range to spend some time pushing my .223 to the limits (and find out what my limits are)

I was hoping to call up to the midlands shooting centre so I contacted them through Facebook but I've not heard anything back.

Anyone know if they monitor their facebook account?

Do you need to be a member or can you just visit (depending on price, being a member probably wouldn't be worth it to me as I'm a good 2 hr drive away and wouldn't get up often)

I know there's another few ranges around but I think the midlands is the only one with over 500yds (up 1200 I think)

Any advice for a lad that just wants to spend a few hours plinking his .223.

Cass

The Midland is the only long range range in the country. The only one with anything over 300 meters (out to 1,200 yards with all distances in between).

The best option is to text/ring JP on the number of the site and he'll contact you back.

With regard to shooting on occasion without actually joining a range. No range can allow this, at least not frequently or on a regular basis. You can accompany a member as a guest to whichever range allows it, but day membership of ranges is not allowed.

The initial joining fee of most ranges is always higher than the yearly membership. This is to discourage people joining just to be able to get a license for a firearm that they would ordinarily not be able to license without membership. I appreciate your situation and being so far from the range so the only advice I could offer is to determine the cost, the type of shooting you want to do and if you visit say 10 to 12 times a year is the cost of membership worth it for the amount of visits you may be able to make?

session savage

I appreciate the reply Cass.

I was dimly aware that I would need to be a member but thanks for clarifying everything.

I'll have to do as you say and work out how often I might be able to get up there but off the top of my head its not looking feasible at the moment.

Its a pity. If I was closer its something I know I'd get really in to.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058301785/looking-tor-a-long-rifle-range-to-visit

As a caveat I think(someone correct me if I'm wrong) that for Midlands outside the 300 yard range you need to be a member to shoot on them(ie excluding guests).

I think I remember seeing signs there to that effect, but whether that is still the case or not I don't know.

Also, nice lefty rifle!

Cass

You could be right, because past 300 you have to do a zero card for safety reasons.

@session savage As the only long range range you are not just limited in choice but in actuality there is no choice.

I've been a member there for 23 years and the range, in my biased opinion, is second to none for the variety of shooting it offers. It specialises in long range as much as other ranges without the 300+ ranges would specialise in gallery, or pistol.

So as said above it really does come down to whether it's financially viable and sustainable for you not just to pay for it but to get the use out of it.

I will say this though, the cost of the yearly membership is on par with most ranges that don't come close to offering the same level of facilities. That Is not a shot (no pun intended) at other ranges as I know some are limited in size by the land they are on and others by their location which dictates their yearly fees but you have dedicated rimfire ranges, pistol ranges, new clay ranges, short/medium and long range ranges, not to mention access to reloading facilities .

If your heart is set on pushing your limits there really is not substitute to the MNSCI.

Ok, sales pitch over.😁

otmmyboy2

I'll echo Cass here and also try not to shill, but I actually joined a couple years ago now, been a member of 3 ranges in Ireland and visited a lot more and MNSCI is really the best of the bunch IMO.

Everywhere has it's flaws or little advantages, but overall I think MNSCI is the best available.

Of course subject to usage, because becoming a member and not being able to go is obviously a pointless exercise.

session savage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745529#Comment_120745529

"Ok, sales pitch over.😁"

you had me at "as the" 😂

This is an itch I'm going to have to scratch though. I've been shooting a long time now so I know what kind of shooting I like to do and I just like lying down on my belly shooting something far away. Unfortunately I only have a couple of permissions with distances over 300yds and they are too often full of sheep. (I wont shoot around livestock, especially sheep)

So membership is something I'll probably go for if I can afford it.

Thanks guys.

Clifford46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058301785/looking-tor-a-long-rifle-range-to-visit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058301785/looking-tor-a-long-rifle-range-to-visit

Testing your .223 at Midlands Shooting Centre is a great plan. Their response time varies, try contacting them directly via phone. While policies differ, some ranges allow one-time visits. Don't miss checking out the techniques of Mohsin Nawaz , an exceptional shooter. For frequent visits, you might want to explore local ranges.

scwazrh

Is midlands open during the week or is it weekends only ?

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992483#Comment_120992483

During the week also. Same as the weekend, just text JP beforehand to ensure space.

Cass

Opening Hours

Tues - Fri , 10am to 4pm, by Appointment Only ,

Sat 9:30am - 4:30pm,

Sun 9:30 - 3:30,

Closed Mon

garrettod

Hi,

What's the joining fee, and the annual renewal, at Midlands, please?

It's too far for me to travel to regularly, and I'm not looking to quit my current club, but the longer ranges are an attraction for an occasional day out etc.

A limited, or part time, membership, would be ideal - say max 12 visits a year, or whatever.

Thanks.

Cass

The links to ranges and their details are in my signature.

Day membership is not legally allowed so not sure it's an option.

Uinseann_16

A quick note ,you cannot shoot past 300m in the Midlands unless you are a member

All that shot PRS were forced to become members in order to shoot the competitions....

garrettod

Hi,

Thinking about this a little more, I wonder if there are enough people here interested in joining Midlands, as a "second club", for occasional use, to see if we could try negotiating some form of limited / part time membership?

I honestly couldn't see myself travelling the distance more than 5-10 times per year, so paying a joining fee plus an annual sub is a few hundred quid, doesn't stack up for me.

Cass

Wouldn't anything other than full membership be akin to day membership which is illegal?

Also no club would offer part time membership and the Midlands would be no different. It would almost certainly involve a reduced rate which is unfair to members that pay the full rate, yet the "part-timers" would enjoy the same amenities and facilities.

How many times someone visits a range is immaterial to the cost of membership as the facilities are always there and the usage a person gets from them is up to them.

I'm not trying to create a problem to every solution, but there is no real workaround either from a range point of view or a legal one.

garrettod

Hi Cass,

Personally, I dont see it the same way.

Is there something in the legislation that defines membership, or prohibits different categories of members (not to be confused with single day visitors). ? I'm not being smart here, I don't know.

If we use a simple comparison with a golf club, there are such things as 5 day members, for example, who do pay an annual fee, but pay a reduced rate in return for limited / restricted use of facilties. I see no reason why the same concept can't be applied.

As to the point about fairness to full members, again, I don't agree - members with restricted or limited access don't get unlimited use of the range, may not be eligible to shoot in competitions at the club etc. So, full time members would not be equal, they'd have additional benefits.

If someone knows they'll only use the range a half dozen times a year, then agreeing to a restriction on use, in return for a lesser membership fee makes prefect sense to me, while it also helps the range bring in additional income, that it probably would not receive otherwise.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455928#Comment_121455928

In what county/parish/planet etc are golf clubs are licensable

Cass

@garrettod Personally, I dont see it the same way

That's fine, you don't have to.

Is there something in the legislation that defines membership, or prohibits different categories of members (not to be confused with single day visitors). ? I'm not being smart here, I don't know

I suppose the closest thing you're looking for is SI 308 of 2009. However the "need" to jump to legislation is a concerning trend. Forget about whether it's legal, and think about the clubs/ranges themselves. They won't want to do it which means it's a moot point.

If we use a simple comparison with a golf club, there are such things as 5 day members, for example, who do pay an annual fee, but pay a reduced rate in return for limited / restricted use of facilties. I see no reason why the same concept can't be applied.

There is no simple comparison with any other sport. Golf club members don't have to:

• Record the number of balls used,
• The type of balls used
• The holes they played,
• To maintain a list of it's members and report to AGS if a member doesn't turn up enough/at all,
• Risk having their clubs taken off them for lack of use
• Ensure their members and guests are off good character and are supervised at every hole.

I'm stretching the comparison to golf a little thin so I'll stop there but you get the idea.

As to the point about fairness to full members, again, I don't agree - members with restricted or limited access don't get unlimited use of the range, may not be eligible to shoot in competitions at the club etc. So, full time members would not be equal, they'd have additional benefits.

Having a separate group within a range membership causes additional level of supervision and enforcement to the range, which means more ROs (usually volunteers).I t can lead to increased confrontations when a "restricted member" is challenged on their number of visits.

The other issue it will cause is when word spreads of their reduced membership rate. You'll have full members then try "negotiate" a reduced price for their membership because they only had a limited number of visits (regardless of reason) which is the same as the "restricted members".

Finally, and at risk of repeating myself, the ranges themselves will not want a reduced income. Ranges rely on their annual fees to maintain the range and introducing a lower rate for less visits still means reduced income .

If someone knows they'll only use the range a half dozen times a year, then agreeing to a restriction on use, in return for a lesser membership fee makes prefect sense to me, while it also helps the range bring in additional income, that it probably would not receive otherwise.

I only managed a couple (literally two) of visits this year due to personal circumstances. Should I get a refund because I didn't visit as frequently as I normally would? Should everyone else who attends 6 times a year or less but pays their membership get a refund?

The ranges are there and available to all members, as is the case with the Midlands, six days a week. Whether that is one person or a hundred per day it's there.

As I've said to lads over the years you need to find a range that suits your purposes and join it. If the Midlands suits your purposes then you support your range by paying athe membership for the year. It's in average, from a few ranges I know, €300 a year. I know lads that spend more than that on ammo and far more on scopes, rifles, and gear.

So why should the membership fee be the thing to "suffer" because lads feel they're not attending enough to justify the annual fee? If you cannot attend more than "X" number of times a year then either find a range you can attend more frequently.

In the case of the Midlands, which is the only long range range in the country, and you want to shoot long range, then realise the hundreds of thousands of Euro that went into building it, and also maintaining it, and support it continued existence by paying the membership.

You don't have to agree with me, and perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm voicing what I think would be the response of any range to the notion of reduced rate for limited attendance to its premises. I know some ranges did or are running a reduced rate if you're a full member of another range, but don't ask me which one it was/is or if they're still doing it.

BSA International

Joining fee aside it works out at €6.50 per week. I spend more on takeaway coffees.

I get there on average once a month. Well worth the fees for what you get.

Been on a few other ranges. None have been better than Midlands.

garrettod

@Cass

I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this, as I think we've both explained our views well enough, and I honestly don't think either of us would ever convince the other to change their mind. As such, I propose that we agree to disagree, on this one 😊

Cass

If we don't go back and forth then the purpose of the forum is moot.😉

You can ask some ranges, but when you do make sure to come back and let me know how you get on. I'd be interested in their response(s).

garrettod

Coincidently, I've just sent you a PM.

As for not going back and forth, I'm trying to resist the temptation to let this drag on for weeks, with neither of us ever agreeing, so help me out here, will you please ? 😉😂

Cass

It doesn't have to drag on for weeks. Doesn't have to drag on at all. You wish for one thing, I believe it's not possible or fair.

There is no need to drag it out, for as you said we've both said our piece and consensus is not required to end the back and forth.

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451251#Comment_121451251

Where does the legislation say day memberships are illegal? And if "anything other than full membership be akin to day membership which is illegal", then what about ranges that offer shooting packages that seem very similar to day memberships such as https://irishshootingsports.ie/shooting-range-packages/bronze-package/ .

Cass

@Munsterlad102 Where does the legislation say day memberships are illegal?

As stated above, SI 308/2009.

(4) A club shall not run any day or temporary membership schemes

@Munsterlad102 then what about ranges that offer shooting packages

Two things allow for such activities.

First is section 2(4)(d) of the primary act;

the possession, use or carriage of a firearm or ammunition during a competition or target practice at a club, shooting range or any other place that stands authorised under this section or section 4A of this Act

And the second is part 3(c) of SI 308/2009 which allows people to attend an activity, course or event without being a member.

The "guest clause" in the firearm act and subsequent SIs allow for attendance for specific reasons but not for the range to grant membership on a temporary or day basis.

If no such allowances were made beginners, etc. could not attend ranges and no competitions would be open to anyone outside the ranges. It would strangle the sport.

scwazrh

Im a member in one range and pay full membership fee , thats my primary range .Im also member in another range and pay associate memberhsip which is half the full amount , no restrictions on usage .I thought that was the norm but maybe not from reading above.

Cass

Yup, as I said above;

Cass - I know some ranges did or are running a reduced rate if you're a full member of another range, but don't ask me which one it was/is or if they're still doing it

That is different to going in with no membership to any range and seeking a reduced rate for limited use.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460727#Comment_121460727

What range offers the associate membership?

scwazrh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462016#Comment_121462016

Just in case I’ve managed to hold onto reduced fee associate membership by luck , it’s probably best that you ask in your own range is it available rather than me ruining my own ability to renew it in Jan.

MickS12

What exactly is a range card and what is its purpose?

Thanks.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483830#Comment_121483830

Do you mean a zero card?

MickS12

Yes that's what I meant sorry.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484494#Comment_121484494

No worries, a zero card is basically a target which you shoot at close range(25 yards often) and it has indicator points for where your round will land at longer distances.

Basically to make sure you don't bring a rifle out to a longer range and start launching rounds over the berm because you've no clue where the rounds will go at that distance.

otmmyboy2

Something like this:

https://targetsonline.com/images/7221473.jpg

MickS12

Thanks, so just it gives you elevation estimations for varying distances to keep you shooting within the back stop?

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484654#Comment_121484654

Yup, precisely.

You can get a good idea using a ballistic calculator but it's best to combine both the calculator and zero card for precise shooting.

But yup, the zero card is primarily about not launching rounds over the backstop.

MickS12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484685#Comment_121484685

Ok thanks I understand now, I wouldn't have thought that someones aim could be so far out to miss the backstop entirely!

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484785#Comment_121484785

Oh its not about aim, but instead impact. They could have their crosshairs on target but if they don't know that their bullet trajectory isn't intersecting at the crosshairs on the target that's a bad situation.

If a shooter usually only shoots at the 100 yard range and then goes to the 600 without any idea of their rifles ballistics they could well be unaware of their rounds falling either short, into the ground between the firing point, or over the berm.

Either is not a good circumstance.

So nought to do with aim at that point, everything to do with ballistics which is down to the individual rifle, twist rate, cartridge, etc.