Advice on running Ethernet cable outdoors

SocialSpud

Hi folks,

I'll be running some CAT6 ethernet cable from my garage to the front door of my house to fit a video doorbell camera. I'm looking for advice on the best way to do this.

The door strip in which I will be feeding the cable up into is pretty tight, but it can fit 2 indoor rated ethernet cables (see pics here and here). I was planning on running 2 cables so that if 1 fails, I have a backup. However, from reading up a bit, people say it's better to run an outdoor rated ethernet cable. The problem with this is that they are thicker, so I can only run one. I also plan on running a conduit so that if this 1 single CAT6 cable fails, I can pull a new one.

Questions I have are:

1. Is it better to run 1 outdoor rated cable or 2 indoor rated cables?
2. It's a 50 meter run, what conduit should I use? I know some people use the red ESB ones, but not sure if that's overkill.
3. If I do get outdoor rated ethernet cable, does this look ok?

p.s I don't have the choice of running the cable from inside the house to the front door.

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Tony H

double post

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755050#Comment_120755050

Thanks, did you dig it underground? I'm actually looking for unterminated as the a connector won't fit in this gap.

Tony H

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755059#Comment_120755059

Its under about a foot of earth for most of the run and the rest is just clipped to a wall ,

tried to edit a double post and deleted it , you quoted it just in time

don't know if its me or the site but apologies for the double posts

Glaceon

Don't use that cable that was advertised there. It's copper clad aluminium so not real Cat 6. You'll only get 100 Mb on longer runs.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755126#Comment_120755126

Thanks, does this look ok? I need something unterminated as the hole it will be going into won't fit a RJ45 connector.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755165#Comment_120755165

deleted

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755165#Comment_120755165

NO! Look carefully and you'll find the dreaded letters CCA (Copper Clad Aluminium) in the description.

If its protected in a conduit I personally don't think there is any need for external cable especially fake CCA cable. I run ordinarily decent quality CAT 5/6 outside something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oren-CAT6A-100m-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B0B12F6W18 and oldest run is about 5 years old and still working fine if I have to replace it no big deal.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755190#Comment_120755190

Thanks for the warning! Just saw that CCA are not compatible with POE devices, so that would have been a terrible waste of money.

I was thinking the ordinary cable would be fine but so many people online say not to as the conduit will let in water eventually. I reckon it will be fine for at least a few years and I can always swap them out. I prefer the flexibility of ordinary cables and this way I can run 2 of them. Did you use a conduit?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755330#Comment_120755330

I have one cable run thats been outside for 5 years that is strung between a PoE access point and a shed. I am taking a risk if it gets hit by lightening but its still working fine. My neighbour has a ten year old set up with 5 cables run in underground conduit between an outside office and the house all running fine. The conduit does fill with water but the ethernet cable isn't made of paper. Edit> All standard cables.

If the conduit will be difficult to run a new cable through then run a spare, it may seem expensive at the time but later on you may live to congratulate your foresight.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755190#Comment_120755190

Ouch, how did I miss that? Well spotted.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755387#Comment_120755387

Much appreciated, any idea what conduit your neighbour used? I will have a 50 meter run without too many bends so should be ok. I was looking at this ESB conduit, not sure if something else would be easier to maneuver though.

The Continental Op

He used the 50mm red conduit that comes in sections. There are twists and turns all over it and no way we'd ever run another cable in it. To get it done we had to pull the cables through section and joint at a time.

If you can do a continuous run with the conduit you linked to a 50m run is a breeze. Check youtube for ways of pulling cables. I've sucked, blown, used water pressure and cabling rods to get cable through. In most cases best to pull a string or rope through first and use it to pull both cables at the same time. Also worth using twice the length of string that you need so you can leave it in the pipe just in case.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755399#Comment_120755399

F3 on the computer keyboard to search then typed CCA, I've found it gets well hidden if you not careful and not surprisingly they only ever mention it once.

Lumen

You might be able to use fibre ducting, it's about 20mm OD, smooth bore and semi rigid which makes it easier to pull/blow cable though.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756325#Comment_120756325

50m or anywhere near is a pain with 20mm conduit. Its doable but you sometimes need a lot of patience. If the OP opts for that then experience tells me best to pull both cables at the same time and to have someone keep them straight (not around each other) as they enter the conduit.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755746#Comment_120755746

Thanks for getting back to me on that. I only have one sharpish bend which I should be able to reduce by going out a bit wider. I assume I should avoid 90 degree bends anyway.

Also, someone suggested using mule tape as a pull string, so might look into that.

The Continental Op

If you can make it easy to get to the one sharp bend. You'll need to pull that in two from what ever end you want to start at to the bend then with a enough extra pulled to do the rest of it then pull from the bend to the end. Then join the bend up and burry it. Maybe make a little chamber at the sharp bend and put a flag on top. Do join up the pipes though so mice can get at the cable. Don't forget its no good getting the cable through if heaving on it has damaged it.

Alternative is to run the cable in the conduit on the surface then drop the conduit into a pre-dug trench. If it goes wrong and find you can pull a new cable through on an old one then you'll have to dig up a the bend.

Now if you do that then by all means use 20mm pipe and pull both cables together with the pipe as straight as you can make then bury it and forget about it. If it goes wrong which I doubt just replace it altogether.

Builders line is all I've ever used (other than rods) if you have to pull anywhere near hard enough to break builders line you are pulling too hard on the cable anyway.

SocialSpud

I don't think I'll be able to put any kind of chamber there as it will be a driveway with cars driving over it constantly. Wouldn't look the best in the spot either as eventually it will be tarmac, so trying to get it right the first time so it won't have to be dug up again!

Do you think I could do it in one single run with this conduit? I could go out a bit wider to prevent any sharp bends.

https://mybuildingsupplies.ie/shop/electrical/esb-ducting/ducting-red-esb-50mm-x-50m/

The Continental Op

If you are putting in tarmac on a drive then I'd put a straight length of conduit reasonably deep underneath it. That way in the future you can dig up either end to get at it.

Two or even three ways to do this depending on what you require at the far end. First option is a well planned run of 50mm pipe that you put in in a way so you can run another cable or more if required later. The second is a throw away option lay the cable in a thin pipe, preinstall the cable and just notch it into the ground, if it goes wrong then just redo the lot. Third is not to run a cable at all and put in a WiFi link. The better WiFi products can be PoE powered from the garage and have a second network connection specifically for a PoE camera.

Lumen

I did the under driveway ducting recently. I used this

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/ducting-pipe-54mm-x-6m-black.html?filter_set%5B%5D=2699,2707,2747

I had to drive a fair distance to get it but the alternative was red ESB ducting and IMO that should be reserved for mains power.

It is completely rigid but can probably be bent with a heat gun, and they also sell bent sections.

The intention is to then run 20mm fibre conduit through that for a continuous run from the road to my neighbours house (my driveway goes over his land and he's waiting on a fibre install).

The local electrical wholesaler also had black bendy conduit that was maybe 30mm and looked tough enough, but I wasn't confident it would have enough clearance for the 20mm conduit to go inside.

SocialSpud

I'm going to attempt option 1 with that red conduit I linked and see how it goes before I close in the trench. For option 2, by redoing the lot does that mean digging up tarmac? 🙈

My plan is to run a POE powered cat6 cable from the garage to the front of the house, connecting directly into a POE Reolink Video Doorbell.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120757174#Comment_120757174

Thanks. I suppose if the red esb conduit is good for main power, there's no reason not to use it for cat6 cables though right?

The Continental Op

Option 2 is start all over if it fails which may mean a different route altogether. Can you go up the wall through the roof then down the wall to save going around the house with conduit?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120757197#Comment_120757197

None at all I can live with any colour underground. I've run a lot of single cables in half inch water pipe it works. What would be wrong would be to run mains cable in plastic waterpipe, drain pipe or anything that didn't give a warning of mains voltage cable.

irishbuzz

I did something similar recently. I used 50mm red USB duct. It is absolutely painful to work with but it does the job once in.

I used gel-filled pure-copper cable: https://www.freetv.ie/gel-filled-cat6-cable/

I had to chase the outer leaf of my wall and fit the duct through that and into an ATU box. https://www.goodwins.ie/products/cable-telecom-etu-box-only-white.html (negotiating the ducting through this was the biggest pain)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120757199#Comment_120757199

One problem with this approach is that you might be unable (or make it more difficult) to pull additional cable in the future.

blackbox

I find hydradare water pipe makes great ducting. Smooth bore with no joints and lots of diameters available.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772741#Comment_120772741

Thanks, mind posting a link to the one you got? Or a similar one?

EDIT: Just spotted this one. I wonder how good it would be with bends? And if 25mm would be enough room to easily pull 2 CAT6 cables through a 40-50m run?

blackbox

I mis-spelt it. It is hydrodare pipe. Go to your local plumbing shop and have a look at the different diameters. 25mm should easily be big enough. You may get away with 3/4 inch. Getting a string through to pull it might be a challenge. Maybe vacuum some wool and use it to pull the string.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120776552#Comment_120776552

Thanks for that. It's not Hydrodare, but I think I found something that mind do the job and for a good price for 100 meters. Reckon this would be alright? Not sure if it's got a smooth bore inside.

The Continental Op

Why not pay the bit extra for 4 times the internal cross section and get the 50mm ESB pipe? If you are laying that without anything other than natural bends then you should manage a 50 meter pull OK.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120776983#Comment_120776983

I was pretty dead set on the red USB ducting but have 2 reasons to go for other options

1. The cheapest I can find it is here for €210 here including delivery. Whereas I could get 100 meters of the 25mm blue MDPE pipe for €140 including delivery here.
2. The pipe will be feeding up to the door frame where I plan on feeding the ethernet cable, I have to drill away a bit of the concrete underneath (highlighted in red below) to make space for conduit so it's flush. So the less I need to drill the better. The reason it needs to be flush is because there will be a granite slab step going here. Of course this is only viable if 25mm can pull 2 Cat6 cables with moderate bends.

Lumen

That water pipe looks perfect.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777633#Comment_120777633

Wonder if it has a smooth enough bore for ethernet cables? And can handle some bends over a 50 meter run?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777576#Comment_120777576

Bring the ESB conduit to the surface then use a grommet in the end of the pipe to reduce the diameter down to one that is easy for the wall. Not an easy thing to find but they do exist www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Grommet-Conical-Protect/dp/B09BR5HBXH/ but any end cap can be drilled out to take a smaller diameter pipe then siliconed in place. These might fit https://www.screwfix.ie/p/floplast-solvent-weld-access-plug-white-50mm/72586

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777970#Comment_120777970

Great thanks, I wonder if that will cause any issues if changing the cables out in the future? As in will they still be easy to pull through.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778005#Comment_120778005

If you are laying that 50mm pipe "naturally" (ie in one piece not forcing any bends) and leave a string in it for pulling then you have as good chance as any. The angle you have to pull from at the ends also makes a difference so try to allow for that, what I mean is don't spoil your chances by having a right angle 300mm down just below that window sweep the pipe up from lower down up to the surface or near to it.

btw those end caps have a screw, forget that just screw that cap on and use the body as a push fit over the end of the ESB pipe. I've done that but without having one in my hand here can't guarantee that. I'm fairly sure there are other kitchen drain pipe fittings that can be used on the ends.

What I would do is run the 50mm pipe into a gully made up of blocks cemented in place then insure when you slab over it you have one slab that you can lift that acts as an access cover. From inside that gully you can neck down to whatever size suits to go up the wall and have access later by lifting a single slab. You can point up the slab as hopefully you'll never need to lift it but if you do you know its an easier job than lifting more than one slab then digging the ground up and you'll have good access to the end of the pipe for pulling another cable.

irishbuzz

Can you install an access chamber just before the entry point? You could have the ESB duct enter there and then a smaller more manageable duct chased through the wall?

If you include a chamber then you can use that as a point from which to pull new cable through your 50mm duct? For the remaining distance, you can either use the original cable to pull or probably even push the cable through given it is a short near direct span.

irishbuzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778180#Comment_120778180

Bah. I see now that a granite step is going here. Would definitely ruin the look.

SocialSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778148#Comment_120778148

Thanks. Do I attach the rubber grommet onto the ESB conduit or the end cap? Sorry for the basic questions, very new to all this.

The Continental Op

You were worried about water getting in hence my grommet suggestion. You might as well seal the ends of the pipe so find something that fits. I just suggested a couple of things that came to mind you don't need ether. If you run the 50mm pipe into a some form of access chamber under a slab then you can just fill the end with silicon/mastic of some kind. Even if you never intend to lift the slab again you can run the 50mm pipe into a plastic box and a smaller diameter pipe out up the wall.

Anyway knew I'd seen something online in the past that might help. Some good info here https://www.eir.ie/opencms/export/sites/default/.content/pdf/NewDucting.pdf page 7 has a diagram which looks good to me. Note they suggest a minimum of 25mm INTERNAL diameter for a single cable.

Edit> RE: the access chamber. Once you have gone the main distance your access chamber doesn't have to be just below the wall if there is a better location up to about 4 meters away then the pipe size can change at that point.

SocialSpud

Excellent thanks, the rubber grommet definitely looks like something I could benefit from here.

If I was to use silicon to seal the end of the conduit, would that make things difficult if I wanted to change the cables in the future? I guess I'd just have to remove the silicon?

I definitely won't be lifting up the granite slab step (hopefully 😄). The step will be completely flush with the bottom of the door frame so once it's in I'll potentially never have access again.

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120776898#Comment_120776898

It should be ok, but check it has a low friction inner surface before purchase. That stuff should also be in stock in your local plumbers' supply shop.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778180#Comment_120778180

Useful information on this post as was looking at installing security cameras using POE, so found this by searching. Are there specific access chambers for use for this kind of comms or electrical cables (more so it can be sealed against mice getting in and doing damage by chewing), or something that is for another purpose and be substituted for use, like a drainage chamber. It wouldnt be getting dug up by anyone else but if I had to run one cable outdoors at a right angle to another, it might be easier for me to have a chamber at the 90 degree junction.