URC 2023/24

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215679#Comment_122215679

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215704#Comment_122215704

You know, I went and checked the rules on the URC website and it isnt 100% clear.

Qualification section doesnt mention the winner of the URC automatically qualifying for the Champions Cup. Only winner of current Champions Cup and Challenge Cup. But then in the seeding section it does say the winner of final match will be first seed.

EUROPEAN PROFESSIONAL CLUB RUGBY (EPCR) QUALIFICATION AND SEEDING QUALIFICATION
1. Eight Clubs participating in the Championship will qualify to participate in the 2024/25 EPCR Investec Champions Cup
Subject to paragraph 3
3. In the event that: (a) a Club wins the 2023/24 EPCR Investec Champions Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2024/25 EPCR Investec Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2023/24); and/or (b) a Club wins the 2023/24 EPCR Challenge Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2024/25 EPCR Investec Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2022/23)
3.1 if applicable
3.2 if applicable
3.3 the highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of paragraphs 3.1-3.2 (for example if two separate Clubs qualify through paragraphs 3.1-3.2 then the top 6 Clubs in the final Standing League Table will qualify through this paragraph 3.3). The remaining Clubs that have not qualified for the 2024/25 Investec Champions Cup via paragraphs 3.1-3.2 will qualify for participation in the 2024/25 EPCR Challenge Cup.
SEEDING
2024/25 EPCR Investec Champions Cup draw
1. The seeding for the 2024/25 EPCR Investec Champions Cup draw will be determined as follows:
1.1 the winner of the Final Match will be first seed;
1.2 the runner-up in the Final Match will be second seed;
1.3 the remaining seeds will be determined by the order that the 2024/25 EPCR Investec Champions Cup qualifiers finished in the final Standing League Table.

Jacovs

FOr some reason it didnt copy point 2 and the 3.1 and 3.2 terms fully, here they are:

2.Subject to paragraph 3, below, the eight Clubs that qualify to
participate in the 2024/25 EPCR Investec Champions Cup will be made up
of the eight highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (ie
after the League Stage has concluded) after having removed from the
Standing League Table all Clubs.

3.1 if applicable, the Club that has won the 2023/24 EPCR Investec
Champions Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2024/25 EPCR
Investec Champions Cup via paragraph 2, above;

3.2 if applicable, the Club that has won the 2023/24 EPCR Challenge
Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2024/24 EPCR Investec
Champions Cup via paragraph 2, above;

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215693#Comment_122215693

100% agree, the top players are half-in, half-out all season. I don't know how you get around that though tbh.

That said, it is a better league than its previous iteration though. The SA teams have been a brilliant addition. If the Welsh were to get their house in order á la Treviso it would be even better.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215728#Comment_122215728

They’ve updated that text and removed the stipulation that the URC winner automatically gets a Champions’ Cup spot.

Within that text they refer to the URC winner and the 2021/22 season so perhaps it’s just poorly updated.

Definitely heard commentary that Ospreys could gain Champions’ Cup qualification if they win the URC.

That the winner gains qualification was clearly stated in previous editions. Also it stated that the runner-up did not gain qualification so the new text contradicts that by saying the runner -up will be second seed.

The rules should be clearer but I doubt they would deny Ospreys a spot if they won the URC.

See the typo on the season below, makes me doubt the accuracy of the text, very amateurish.

UNITED RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL

(4.) The winner of the United Rugby Championship for 2021/22 will therefore be the Team that wins the URC Final.

https://www.unitedrugby.com/about/competition-rules

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122213452#Comment_122213452

who is she playing against?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215951#Comment_122215951

Yea, until they pull the thumb out and align seasons properly, it will always be a mess. Ideally it would go domestic leagues, then CC, then internationals. Never happen unfortunately

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215995#Comment_122215995

Stade Francais. There’ll be a jersey clash issue.

Jump_In_Jack

https://tournamentguides.epcrugby.com/information/qualification/

The link above states final finishing positions, assume this is after the playoffs.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216018#Comment_122216018

Align them in what way do you see as it done properly? I quite like jumping between Europe, urc and internationals

Cookiemunster

The URC decides what teams qualify for Europe, not the EPCR. That's how they were able to nominate shields winners rather than the top 8 teams previously.

Munster became top URC seed after winning the final last year despite finishing 6th.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216057#Comment_122216057

I'd rather the league run thru to completion, then the CC in some form, then the internationals. Each level building on the last in intensity.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216208#Comment_122216208

I don't see how it's better and intensity for bigger games with drops for some games like current set up works ok

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216223#Comment_122216223

It would be better imo, because it would mean the teams could consistently play stronger teams. There wouldn't be so many incidents of enforced rest, players in camp etc

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216240#Comment_122216240

Hey wouldn't and we would still have players managed for national set ups etc consisting all teams are union owned etc

Having the set up as it is now allows more rotation which is a good thing and still has best players play plenty as well.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216310#Comment_122216310

Disagree on that. The teams being sent to SA are a perfect example of this. You would of course have rotation, but not wholesale 2nds being sent out. Does a disservice to the league imo, and the teams as well.

Hank the DJ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215995#Comment_122215995

She'll be up against brown.

Neil3030

If my read on the scheduling for next season (already released 🤯), they've done a great job for SA teams.

They still have three tours north, one lasting 3 games and one lasting two games, spaced far apart.

But the third tour is a single fixture and looking at the dates it seems as though it might precede/follow an away fixture in the Heineken Cup.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216313#Comment_122216313

You obviously are talking about leinster here but that's purely a scheduling thing. If the leinster trip down south was at an earlier stage they'd more likely send a stronger team down but leinster have sent weaker squads down to sa solely because they can afford to as its been end of year and they're already qualified

Wholesale changes will happen no matter what structure is in place as unions and international coaching teams want their players for tests which pay the bills

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216313#Comment_122216313

Ulster and Munster sent their strongest squads to SA. The reasons why Leinster didn't are well rehearsed here, but ultimately it was their call.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216393#Comment_122216393

Last year saw similar compromises come the playoffs. I'd rather a schedule that didn't force any such compromise on teams. The Irish derbies are another example of marque fixtures that regularly get denuded for the sake of other interests.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216566#Comment_122216566

Playing Tournaments off in a totally different way isn't the answer as it affects a lot of other sides much more than say leinster and that isn't good. The interpros are lessened by having weakened teams in some games but little can be done about it. They'll be played around Christmas to reduce travel for all players. Coaches, teams and that's only fair and 6 nations so close means camps are on.

AbusesToilets

The thing that could be done about it fairly simple, align the season into a logical progression that doesn't demand selection compromises. The SH does it, there's no international competition during Super Rugby. Obviously the French will never acquiesce to moving the top 14, and the 6Ns is similar, to the detriment of the game overall imo

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216635#Comment_122216635

The problem with moving some tournaments is coverage. When do you move 6 nations to and would it get as much coverage if played closer to end of football season/start of summer? I don't think so.

Moving everything like the gaa season or southern hemisphere in rugby doesn't mean it will be better for everyone. It doesn't mean there will be less rotation jn League. That will continue. I don't see the point

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216648#Comment_122216648

I wouldn't be as negative about the prospect of losing interest because of moving tournaments. The CC and 6Ns are blue chip events, folks will tune to engage with them regardless of the time of year. They'd like benefit from the better weather of a later start to boot.

Instead of worrying about competing with other sports, they could have confidence in their own product. The URC would be a better league if the teams were consistently at a higher standard, which in turn would attract more viewership and money. Rugby is far too conservative and slow to try and leverage new markets. The world league garbage a perfect example of that.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216672#Comment_122216672

They may be chip chip but far harder to attract casual viewers and attendees if there is far more competition from other events/sports. You can have all the confidence in the world but in TV land rugby will always lose out to soccer and some other sports so you don't go up against them

AbusesToilets

Sure might as well do nothing I guess. Wait for the inevitable axe to fall

Podge_irl

They are not moving the 6N, and they are certainly not moving it for the benefit of club rugby.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216794#Comment_122216794

Yes, of course they won't. They won't do anything to build the game, which is entirely the problem

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216832#Comment_122216832

Moving the 6 nations won't build the game. Makes it harder to get viewers etc. ITs at an ideal time where it is

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216832#Comment_122216832

How would it build the game? International rugby is the overwhelming entry point of fans into rugby and the money maker for the entire sport.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216869#Comment_122216869

Well, for example, in the context of an aligned season, it would facilitate a better quality product for the league. Which would be conducive to growing the game. Moving it would also allow games to be played in better weather, which makes it a more attractive spectacle to watch and attend. It could also give it scope to expand, which imo it ought to.

It don't think it lose viewers. The current fan base isn't suddenly going to abandon it because of it being on later in the year.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216904#Comment_122216904

It has a window with almost no other major sports events and not much else to do full stop at the moment. If you put it at the end of the regular season it is suddenly in the summer - there are competing interests for people's time in terms of both other sports and just other activities. They are blessed with where it is in the calendar, and it won't be moved for a questionable benefit to the URC - given there is no direct overlap of games anymore I don't even see the benefit. You could potentially re-organise the domestic calendar to run domestic leagues followed by Europe rather than mixing them, though the French will never agree to that either.

The league just isn't that important when it comes to decision making about the international game.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216904#Comment_122216904

i dont think the 6N needs to be moved to increase the 'quality' of the product. id argue swapping the direction of the end of season tours - i.e NH sides host in June/July and SH host in November rather than the current way - would be a better change in terms of scheduling. I also personally think NH hosted RWCs need to be earlier to allow for better weather generally for the final

neither of which would affect the URC though

Akrasia

There's nothing particularly wrong with the URC calendar. It's delivered plenty of excitement and come down to the wire in each of its 3 seasons so far.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216934#Comment_122216934

I agree that nothing will happen, WR doesn't have the weight and power to properly organize the sport, unfortunately.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217199#Comment_122217199

TThat isn't true and moving games won't affect some of the diehards but makes attracting more neutrals or non rugby fans harder especially if rugby now goes up glagainst so many other events. And not moving 6 nations isn't world rugby being unable to properly organise anything.

Neil3030

I was literally just thinking the other day, "the URC is really gathering momentum, I really hope that nothing changes for the next few years, and all the little intricacies and sub-narratives can bed in…"

Come on here to a discussion on changing the rugby calendar completely 😂

Please stop changing things, please?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217231#Comment_122217231

It's absolutely true, otherwise we wouldn't be faced with the nonsense of the World league shite for the internationals, that completely freezes out all of the Tier 2 countries. That coming after the best WC showing by said Tier 2 countries.

AdamD

https://x.com/simonrug/status/1797953587798294891

https://x.com/simonrug/status/1797953590704963985

Clegg

I feel for Benneton.

Have a try rules out for offside at the ruck and the Bulls score their own try from the proceeding penalty

Podge_irl

Pffft, Benetton score a go-ahead try only to have it overruled for a penalty against them which Bulls score from.

Not a fan of the over-ruled try. TMO came in to say a Benetton player detached from a maul but the ref was literally a foot away and said it was fine.

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234425#Comment_122234425

Looked a very harsh call to me.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234439#Comment_122234439

The guy only partially bound wasn't even the one who block down the kick from what I could tell. Edit: No this isn't right I've checked back. **** me though, that was insanely harsh.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234439#Comment_122234439

TMO reffing the game.

Thought he was fully bound and didn't change. Only broke off when ball clearly out of the maul. Harsh.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234450#Comment_122234450

The ref was right there and screamed he was bound. I don't like the TMO coming back on these kind of things.

phog

Crowley top man

https://x.com/OptaJonny/status/1799093178156433448?t=6Sg1E9FkQuHnzmxlpljCJw&s=19

Podge_irl

Excellent score for Benetton there.

Podge_irl

Ah jesus, knocked the ball on from a simple pass that would have been a walk in try. Benetton you're killing me

Shehal

Love that, the Bulls player quite clearly tackles the Benetton player before he gets the ball and Adamson is like "nah, play on".

He really is a disgrace to rugby, not only is he a…you know what (if you follow my posts on Adamson you know what word you can insert here)…but he's also a complete homer.

Shehal

Even if Benetton lose Ratava has to be in the running for MOTM, been a complete game changer for Benetton today!