Annual leave Civil Service circular 08/2023

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790433#Comment_120790433

This is the thing. You never need a union.

Until you need a union.

(And/or access to discounted income continuance, AVCs and car and home insurance...)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788932#Comment_120788932

I can see why APs and above might be less negative about this when they have up to 10, (and in some cases 12) non-statutory days a year they can play around with. It's not as restrictive on them.

Not so much for lower grades who have a lot less non-statutory leave.

Flexi leave (at HEO and below) also doesn't compensate for this as it has to be used in the flexi period after its accrued.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790433#Comment_120790433

Nothing from my Dept either, which surprises me as they're usually very prompt on distributing circulars.

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790504#Comment_120790504

In what way is the income continuance discounted? Given that the civil service CIP pays for year and if you leave the civil serivce the cornmarket policy reduce any payment by the retirement pension(force you to apply), the pricing doesn't seem in anyway cheap/discounts vs competition.

I don't find the union great but in saying that some members bring up petty gripes to reps.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120785923#Comment_120785923

Load of bollocks tbh, trying to spin a negative as a positive. Local arrangement or not, I've never heard of anyone being refused to anticipate a couple of days.

It's easy to see how they got pushed over at the pay negotiation, isn't it? Clowns.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790433#Comment_120790433

So you'll continue to benefit from anything positive the union does, while bitching about the negative, despite contributing nothing to either outcome 👍️

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791283#Comment_120791283

Sorry, I assumed there was a discount for union members, but I've not looked at costs or how they compare to other providers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120786206#Comment_120786206

Anticipation of annual leave was always available in my Dept too, but it was more strictly controlled. It had to be for a specific "unavoidable" reason or event, e.g. a family wedding - and it had to be applied for in writing, giving the reason, and HR had to approve in advance.

You couldn't just take two days off from the next year's allowance to have a long weekend.

ParkRunner

Best way to manage it is to have a good relationship with your line manager and to work with them. If you need to carry over extra leave a way can be found in most cases I’m sure. Going complaining to HR or the unions will get you nowhere as they officially have to stick to the circulars.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120795149#Comment_120795149

Point being, you didn't have to do that, for two out of every three years, at least. Now you do.

nhg

Is it a minimum of a 1 week of unbroken leave that you have to take in the year….

I normally take every Monday & Friday off from end July until early September and the ‘unbroken week’ that includes the August bank holiday

jaffa20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120795149#Comment_120795149

Problem is, I've a feeling it will all be automated via peoplepoint. Possibly people will be able to apply to carry over statutory leave through their manager.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120786518#Comment_120786518

Jesus Christ, image crying about having to work 3 extra minutes a day. You're the reason state employees have a terrible reputation as workshy layabouts.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120796783#Comment_120796783

WHOOSH!

Did you even make it to the second paragraph? Those "3 extra minutes a day" are a day and a half's leave annual leave a year, near enough (very roughly) to €450 in gross pay for me.

I am not "crying" about having to work 3 extra minutes a day - I don't think I've worked less than a 7-hour day more than 10 times this year, and I don't have flexi.

Heiser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790504#Comment_120790504

The unions get a terrible deal for civil servants on AVC's. The fees charged are very high. It's literally one of the worst deals on the market. AVC's are great if you can afford them but the unions haven't negotiated a good group discount on fees or done anyone in the service any favours.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801326#Comment_120801326

Every day is a schoolday! Thanks for that, I'll shop around, so!

Mr lebowski

I notice someone mentioned discounted insurance recently if your in the thread. Is there much to be saved in that regard?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801633#Comment_120801633

I've found that shopping around is best - no matter what the alleged benefits.

curiosity

It does feel like there's been a lot more retirements over the last 18 months, and I've heard of a few people retiring with a large chunk of leave, meaning they've left over a month before coming off the payroll.

Pre-NSSO, when all leave matters were handled by local office HR, we had to discuss carryover with our line manager. They in turn would take the needs of the section into account as well. When the NSSO took over, I just rolled over more annual leave than before, and ended up cramming a wedge of leave into Year 3.

I'm glad to see the Year 3'cliff edge' (as doc22 termed it) will be gone, and hopefully some local workaround will be available for people with long hols planned.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804851#Comment_120804851

Hopefully, yes. Or those of us with family abroad. I may not necessarily want to plan a long holiday, but I would like to be able to "bank", say, two weeks' annual leave, to cover any emergency that might crop up, for example. Not to take next year, nor the year after, but a "just in case" thing.

shaken not stired

My department just recently sent out a email to all our branch offices that we can only get a max of 4 weeks SWY now. This clearly is going against the circular but it appears they really do not want people taking longer off, so like the other post. I too use to save up my annual leave and go on a long trip for 5 /6 weeks to other side of world. Having to take the 20 stat now under this new circular and only being able to carry over 2 days per year, means it would take 5 years of carrying over the two each year to make 6. Unions as per usual said nothing and are sell outs to the average worker. And 100% they will enforce that included rule of office closure. Few years back when that storm hit and they wanted to take back the days from everyone staying home on the red warning. This now means any future red warnings and office closures will mean blanket deductions of leave across the board.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049367#Comment_121049367

Agree with you on the first points, but blended working means that they surely won't try to close all offices because of a storm, they'll just mandate the red warning day/days as "take leave, or WFH"? Possibly only allowing the latter if a person already has blended working, but it'd be really bad publicity to close line departments when everyone know blended working is in place.

The unions seem really, really silent lately. I'm presuming Partnership Committees have just stopped being a thing over the last few years, too.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049367#Comment_121049367

I don't think you can keep carrying over the non-stat 2 days indefinitely, it needs to be used up the next year along with that year's stat leave

Nigel Fairservice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049837#Comment_121049837

Weather events will probably just become WFH days for a lot of staff. For the 2018 storms I coincidentally had the days booked off but they gave me the days back due to the office being closed. Had heard other organisations like the HSE were looking to take the days out of people's annual leave.

Lynnington3

I’m in leave year 1 , what can I carry over into next years leave year with the new leave circular? I have 23 leave days in a year

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380300#Comment_121380300

You have to take your 20 days statutory leave within it's accrued year, and can carry the extra 3 days to next year.

Lynnington3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380618#Comment_121380618

Thanks , but can I can carry more than the 3 into next year ? I’m looking to take a number of weeks off next year for an extended holiday

TaurenDruid

It's a while since I read the actual circular, but my take on it at the time was while the year 1, 2, 3, 1 thing was going, it does actually screw over your ability to carry over leave for something like an extended holiday. (I've a relative in Oz, and 2 or even 3 weeks there isn't really enough considering you "lose" at least 2 days to travel). The circular is also worded extremely poorly so it's really hard to work out what you can and can't carry.

Nigel Fairservice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380877#Comment_121380877

Like a lot of circulars I've read! Some of the ones I have to refer to for work are poorly worded at times and can be open to interpretation.

Kirbi

@Lynnington3

With the new circular you can only carry forward for one year, and generally only your non-Stat leave (exceptions for business reasons, sick leave, etc. are called out in the circular).

You can carry the next year as well, but no more than you could've the previous year. That is, if no exceptions apply, the max you can carry into the following year will always be the amount of your non-Stat leave - currently three days.