Nigel Farage cries persecution, nobody wants to be his banker after ties to Russia

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878351#Comment_120878351

Yes they’re definitely similarities. I think banking services are more vital than cake baking, but the basic principles are the same.

I still think there’s a problem with we don’t like that you are gay/brexiteer go to this place instead. Can the other place do the same then?

but again , it shouldn’t be framed as the “right”/“left” team” say x or y.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878351#Comment_120878351

Somewhat.

I think the real issue is that the modern right essentially wants a caste system whereby they are absolved from all responsibility and consequences while steadily eroding away the rights and prosperity of everyone else.

If someone on the left had lost their account with a posh boys bank, the Farage cultists would be laughing their heads off. Since it's their guy and the fact that he'd have to mix with the plebs is a something that just can't be allowed to happen, we get disinformation about his political views instead.

Shoog

It's simple business have the absolute right to pick and choose their customers within the limits of discrimination law. No law was broken here.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878412#Comment_120878412

Just a point. Although Coutts apologised, they haven’t actually given him back his account, have they?

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878412#Comment_120878412

You’re still stuck in this right/left Team mentality.

Ignoring the basic principle of someone being denied services based on political beliefs.

Regardless of which side they are on, or if they would cheer someone with opposing views having the same done to them.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878376#Comment_120878376

There's a difference, I think.

In the Asher case, the baker was being asked to provide a cake with a "Support Gay Marriage" slogan on it. In other words, the baker was being asked to provide an expression of support for a political campaign with which they did not agree. They were willing to provide cakes in general to the customer; just not a cake with this particular slogan. So they weren't saying "we won't do business with you because your values do not align with ours".

Whereas Coutts isn't refusing to provide services related to campaigns they don't support; they are refusing to provide Farage with any service at all, not even personal banking, a service which is wholly unrelated to his political activities.

Asher essentially won their case on freedom of speech grounds. Their argument boiled down to, just as the law could not restrain them from expressing beliefs that they do hold, so it could not compel them to express beliefs which they do not hold. Everything turned on the fact that what they refused to supply was a cake with a particular slogan, not cakes in general. Coutts is not in an analogous position.

Having said that, Farage can still be accused of hypocrisy here. At the time of the Asher case, his position was not that Asher should have their freedom of speech protected by not being compelled to produce the cake, but more broadly that people in business should be free to express disapproval of certain lifestyles and to act on that basis e.g. by refusing service to a gay couple. In the 2015 election UKIP committed to amending the law to allow this.

So it's fair to say that Farage previously thought that business should be free to reject the custom of people of whom they disapproved, but now he apparently thinks that they should not have that freedom if the person they disapprove of is him.

donaghs

And if banks and other businesses don’t like you, should they be fully entitled to deny you services?

These are not new ideas.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878309#Comment_120878309

26% doesn't sound a lot in percentage terms, but that's effectively 15 million people in the UK.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878433#Comment_120878433

I’ve never said that Nigel Farrage is a nice person, that his politics are correct, or that he isn’t a hypocrite - I’m just saying what was done to him by Coutts was wrong, and it’s important to make that point so that it doesn’t happen to other people, regardless of their political slant.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878447#Comment_120878447

Hundreds of thousands of people had their bank accounts closed as a result of Brexit. Was what was done to them wrong? Which was the more significant wrong, and the one in greater need of redress?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878529#Comment_120878529

It's not a competition.

Two "wrongs", if we take them as wrongs, don't make a right.

Donald Trump

Man deliberately joins exclusive bank whose operating model has always been based on the fact that it excludes the unwashed masses. Man happily remains a member of said bank for decades until they get rid of him. Man changes his mind now that it suits him. Idiots forget that the man actually willingly joined the bank because of its operating model

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878531#Comment_120878531

But if we're doing to address the "wrong", or perhaps the harm, of people losing their bank accounts, don't we have to consider the full picture? Picking just one person who lost his bank account and disregarding hundreds of thousands of others is not likely to produce a rational or effective solution to the problem of people being denied access to banking services, is it?

This goes back to the question I put to you earlier, and on which I would genuinely welcome your views. What's the important issue here — is it the importance of access to banking, or is it a principle of non-discrimination on the basis of political opinion, or is it vindicating the right to free speech? You can probably make a case for any of these, but the actions that you will think need to be taken will be very different depending on which issue you prioritise. If we don't know what problem we're trying to solve, our chances of finding a good solution are virtually nil.

People in the thread are quite right to point out that it doesn't matter that Farage is a shît. Even shîts have right that we all ought to defend. The important thing is to think clearly about what this affair tells us about right that need to be defended. Farage himself has (predictably) worked hard to obscure that issue; we should disregard what he says and focus instead on what actually happened. But, having identified that, we have to start by articulating why what happened is problematic.

Shoog

A bank who's main client base would be made up of internationalists and europhiles, who would have thought they would see a conflict with Farage.

Companies who trade on reputation defend their reputation. Surprised ?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878610#Comment_120878610

This is the part that his supporters keep avoiding.

He was denied service by an arm of an organisation that denies its service to many, many people, but they offered him the same services that many, many people have.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878422#Comment_120878422

This lie has been debunked too many times at this point for me to do anything but casually dismiss this.

Kevrano

Ugh! Again, Coutts is not a high street bank. He was offered an account within the same organisation. He claims to be an everyday man, but this just highlights he is anything but.

It's like he wanted to fly First Class from London to New York, but was only offered Economy. He could still fly, but not on his terms. So he's making out he couldn't fly at all.

(yes, it's an over simplification, but the point stands)

Bogwoppit

So having read the Coutts reputational report it turns out that Farage continually fell below the levels of deposit/loan amounts they require.

They kept him on while he still had a mortgage with them but when that was paid off his account was no longer commercially viable and they made the decision to close it.

There is a lot of information on his comings and going’s, Russia, political opinions and such but that is all information any bank would keep on a PEP, they are required by law to do so.

In short, PEP joins exclusive rich boys bank, no longer rich enough to be part of that bank, they kick him out, waaahhh.

Quin_Dub

It's really really important to point out that Nigel Farage was NOT "de-banked" or anything remotely close to that.

He has just been told that for commercial reasons he is longer viable as a "VIP" Customer.

• If Coutts were a Nightclub , they just told him he couldn't access the VIP Area anymore - But he can still dance away to his hearts content just like everybody else.
• If Coutts were an Airline , they just told him he no longer qualified for Lounge Access - But he can still board any plane to fly anywhere he likes, just like everybody else.

This "Man of the People" is screaming and shouting and pretending he's just like "Johhny the Plumber from Croyden" when in reality he's complaining that he can no longer avail of the Services of a Bank EXCLUSIVELY DESIGNED to keep him away from that pleb of a plumber from Croyden.

It's like the French Peasants revolting and Storming the Bastille in support of Marie Antoinette because she didn't have enough cake to eat..

FFS.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878635#Comment_120878635

Publicy too. They’ve essentially gone out to say that “NatWest can be the bank of Nigel Farage and that the offer stands”. He was likely offered the NatWest Premium account too, since that seems to be the recommendation of the Coutts application page if you don’t meet their criteria.

But we wants the snooty super-elite bank that will wipe his arse with £100 notes. None of this dealing with an assigned customer representative over the phone if he needs human interaction. Now he’ll have to do all of his investment banking himself ?! Like a commoner?! If only there were books about that kind of thing to give him pointers…

He would be (and might still become) a NatWest customer, likely with the options to take loans, invest money, have various accounts / cards etc… but because the snooty bank (which hadn’t kicked him out since Brexit, since appearing at Trump rallies or even since when he campaigned against the RNLI) has now got sick of him and want him moved to the parent bank….he is being “debanked” he is being denied “basic banking services”, despite Coutts being anything but that.

I’m surprised that Farage insists on hoisting himself with his own petard here. His sycophants will of course still support him (and even insist on knighthoods on the basis if a very public hissy fit…jesus) but all he’s done is show how out of touch he is with most of society and create the impression of a guy who’s on the decline financially. If that’s the case, he’d better hope that GB News’ investors keep pumping cash in, or he might have a hard time staying afloat.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878779#Comment_120878779

It's so depressing that so many people are pretending like this is some sort of civic rights victory when it's some faux posh boy having a tantrum about losing a piece of his privilege. He must be truly desperate if this is what he has to resort to for attention.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120877142#Comment_120877142

LOL.

You wouldn't even be able to get an account with Coutts in the first place lad, never mind have one closed down.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878635#Comment_120878635

And this is thing...where was Nigel when Coutts were denying services to those many, many, people before it was he that was on the receiving end of that discrimination?

Oh yeah, he was enjoying having an account that same discriminating bank, precisely BECAUSE it was a discriminating bank.

astrofool

There is an ongoing attempt from farage and supporters to pretend that this was a bank account and that coutts banking services are open to all.

When they reply or claim as such, they can be dismissed as discussing in bad faith.

This is not an issue for anyone other than nigel.

Pretending there is a "both sides" angle to this is disingenuous.

I would be very concerned if someone, even as odious as Mr. PayPal, was denied access to a bank account unless it was down to illegality.

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878801#Comment_120878801

Maybe he'll go the full lord Haw-Haw route and move to russia and become a presenter on on of their propaganda shows 😆

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878983#Comment_120878983

As far as I'm concerned, a "bank" like Coutts shouldn't be allowed in the first place. There shouldn't be rich people banks at all.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879028#Comment_120879028

I’m wondering if NatWest are looking at this and wondering if it’s worth their time having a separately branded elite bank like this. It was probably only a matter of time until their selection policy would piss off a human foghorn like Farage.

If I were them I’d fold the Coutts stuff into a quietly maintained “Premium-Elite” NatWest department, and then stay stumm about who's there.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879028#Comment_120879028

I'd have to disagree. It is a private bank and serves a purpose.

If you ever find yourself with tens or hundreds of millions, you probably wouldn't want to be queuing down the Post Office to get Bridie's advise and expertise on new financial products and investment opportunities just as soon as she's finished sorting out John's dog licence and a few stamps for Mary.

Equating such institutions to normal banks is exactly what Farage is trying to do. It is a false equivalence

Shoog

There is a reasonable probability that Coutts could go bankrupt as a consequence of the bad publicity.

Now wouldn't that be a terrible thing 🤣

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879094#Comment_120879094

Perhaps the brand name Coutts has a value of its own. I'd imagine it has an appeal to certain people. e.g. the snob value to Nigel.

The privacy aspect, and reputation for eagerly opening accounts for wealthy people and an "ask no questions culture" seems to attracts dictators and their entourages, and mobsters, oligarchs etc.

Queen's banker fined for poor money laundering checks | Financial Services Authority (FSA) | The Guardiann