Is it the end of the road for 2FM as we know it?

its_steve116

Would it still be called 2FM, if a commercial rival did buy it?

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799029#Comment_120799029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799916#Comment_120799916

I missed the "DAB" reference when I thanked it! However, the point still makes sense if you say "online" instead of DAB. Basically - a swap.

JoeA3

What is there to sell, if anything? It doesn’t make any money… it’s audience figures are abysmal… I don’t see any identity or branding with it that’s worth a damn, say like an easily identifiable brand like Today FM for example

And I’m guessing a lot of the staff are RTE staffers? - so you’re not buying the “talent” either. It doesn’t seem like a very saleable entity imo.

Lord Nelson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801611#Comment_120801611

At this stage there is little or no value to 2FM as a going concern. Its frequencies and transmission facilities are about that’s of use. I would imagine anyone interested in it would not want to inherit a rota of overpaid, essentially talentless “celebs”?

Trampas

How many people work on a radio show in other stations?

Seems like they’ve at least 3-4 people and they seem to be for each show. Nobody seems to cross shows.

Is it too many bodies for 2fm never mind the 3 nk people on one show which seems crazy. As I guess nk doesn’t come cheap

orchard farm

Bring back JK and the 2FM Metal Show and save the day !

squonk

Fair point. I wasn’t pushed about the metal shoe because I wasn’t a huge fan but it was a specialist show for a targeted audience. Do they do that these days? I know the world is different and music apps can curate a playlist for anything that interests you but I still think specialist shows are a great thing. Sometimes you just need to be made/able to listen to something outside your wheelhouse. IMHO nightly specialist shows like afrobeats, blues, American folk etc would be a great thing.

GSF

Its only value is the frequency really. The rest is loss making. Rte could have made it break even by controlling costs but just wasn’t up to it

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801714#Comment_120801714

The frequencies and the right to use them - it's unlikely any buyer would commit to paying for 2RN transmission on all sites beyond any contracted period.

They are far from cheap, and others who have large areas to cover (Newstalk, Today, iRadio, Spirit) use self assembled networks of private masts, space on ILR owned sites etc with minimal 2RN

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794503#Comment_120794503

All joking aside some great insights and observations here. As an older male who grew up with the hugely exciting advent of RTE Radio 2 in 1979 and spent all of the 80's listening to it but gravitated to Radio 1 in the early 90's, the station that I used to listen to is unrecognisable to me today. But then the entire market and spectrum is utterly changed too. I rarely listen to 2fm now except when the kids switch it over on the school run or wifey dear occasional puts it on in the kitchen. To me it is an utterly alien experience (obviously not targeted at me!) but seem to be composed of a lot of talking heads referencing social media and celebrity gossip and all in all fairly vacuous stuff (but then admittedly it's not aimed at me!) Also as others have observed much of it seems to be driven by the celebrity of the presenters rather than any content.

Looking back when I was a teenage listener in the 80's it was about or only alternative exciting option to Radio 1 until we discovered Radio Luxembourg and the Pirates started to emerge (I tweaked/boosted my MW graphite aerial so I could pick up Nova and Sunshine from Dublin as well as other pirates from round the country!). We used make compilation cassettes by recording from the top 30 and other songs we liked and these supplemented us when there were programs we didnt like. Gradually local radio and other options began to encroach and supplement what was originally a exclusive market for 2fm, but by then it had firmly established brand personalities like Gerry Ryan, Jimmy Greally, Ian Dempsey, Jim O Neill, Larry Gogan, Dave Fanning and Mark Cagney (Who all pretty much made their names for their ability in radio, as opposed to many of todays "celebrity" presenters who gravitated to radio via their often overblown celebrity created elsewhere). As I recall it even had a country and Irish program at one point presented by Paschal Mooney although one of the valid criticisms of it at the time was the little airtime it gave to Irish acts unless they had broke mainstream in the UK.

The market and audience today is vastly changed from that, but it seems that 2fm hasnt changed all that much or kept pace, bar focusing on and top loading the presenter schedule with manufactured celebrities frequently promoted by the NKM agency. All the while the competition has expanded exponentially between good local radio, online radio, podcasts and streaming music not to mention all the social media competition.

To me it seems 2fm as a public broadcasting entity in it's present form is no longer viable either on a commercially viable basis or as a credible listener attraction vis a vis the alternatives. It seems to be a luxury that RTE can no longer afford as part of the public broadcasting spectrum and bar its use as a 2nd channel for sports broadcasting is of questionable public service use in any case (That said a considerable portion of Radio 1's content and personality driven programming has also gravitated that way too so the same argument could be said there!)

I think it's survival would seem to lie in either its sale or it being spun off as a completely separate commercial entity where content and presenter choice is dictated by adverting revenue alone, and as others have said, now would seem to be the opportune time to take that leap regarding an entity and an identity that has been blurred and lacking direction for more than a decade.

touts

Who would buy 2FM? Its unsellable at the moment.

• It doesn't have it's own facilities. It is on the RTE campus and uses the RTE studios, offices etc. If RTE sell it then whoever buys it would need to have an existing broadcasting building ready for them to move into. Even if they have an existing studio they have an existing station, or two already using the facilities. Buying 2fm would require a multi-million investment in infrastructure.
• The presenters may not be in the top 10 but that list only goes down to around €180K. You can be sure some of 2FM are on over 100k. No one in the private sector would pay them that. Jennifer Zamparelli has to be on at least €150K and is the only one of them who has the talent and personality to get a gig in the UK. Jennie Greene who is probably their only naturally talented DJ and would probably get a gig in the UK. You can be sure the likes of Roz Purcell, the 2 Johnnies, Donncha O'Callaghen, Karl Mullen, who all had profiles before 2FM came knocking were offered big contracts to join the station. None of them would get a similar contract from a rival station. 2fm bought their Irish fanbase. And then you have the likes of Lotti Ryan who got the gig as a nod to the fans of her late father. She is most likely on good money also. Anyone who bought 2fm would have maybe 2 presenters who were genuinely worth the money. The rest would be on big contracts that were negotiated by mates and agents who were happy to spend someone elses money.

So anyone buying 2fm would have to invest millions in new facilities and would have to pour a lot of money into a stable of donkeys.

It is more likely that RTE will spin off 2fm into it's own commercial entity and spend 5 or 6 years moving it to an alternative location (maybe the RTE studios in Limerick or Cork) and running down the contracts of the presenters. Then they would look to sell it.

TheBMG

2FM is for sale? How does that even work?

No current existing legislation allows for this.

Does it fall under the remit of the BAI? If that’s the case they can’t simply sell it to the highest bidder; BAI process is a ‘beauty contest’ not an auction .

Does the newly privatised 2FM then have to adhere to the same guidelines as the rest of the commercial stations? Irish music quotas, news quotas etc etc.

Does the new 2FM have to stay a 15-35 station or will it be allowed change format?

What is for sale really? The brand name? The transmission network isn’t theirs. The studio isn’t theirs. The staff aren’t theirs.

The franchises for the independent radio sector come up for renewal every few years. If you’ve got the bank balance there’s nothing stopping you applying for the Nova licence, or the Today FM licence etc etc. The fact that the existing stations have had their licenses renewed without any challenges would suggest that radio broadcasting is not a gold mine.

squonk

2FM brave is like the Nokia brave these days. For a while there wasn’t any real competition and it was the default option. All the top DJs ended up there bad made babes for themselves and tge output was great.

Then, like Nokia, things moved on. Apple and Android phones took over the market. Nokia struggled. Same with 2FM. The new kids on the block are doing it better and more efficiently. 2FM benefits hugely from its RTE base in that there is availability to studios and tech staff and transmission. If they were a separate entity before now they’d be fine, like Nokia largely is. I don’t know what their Rest is to buy. I’m not their demographic anymore so don’t listen but it sounds like they’re demographic arent tuning in either. When I think of young peoples radio I think of Spin.

marno21

Selling 2FM is a bit of a misnomer. There is no option to sell 2FM as it's a loss making business with no saleable assets, with the exception of a nationwide, high coverage set of frequencies.

What would happen in reality if RTE have no purpose for 90-92 & 97.0, is the frequencies would be reallocated by the Media Commission to new service(s).

As was pointed out yesterday, the list of potential buyers is also quite short.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802399#Comment_120802399

Are Today not still predominantly 2RN with a few notable exceptions (Three Rock/Fermoy/Athlone/Drogheda among others)?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802697#Comment_120802697

I believe there either will be, or already have been more moves. 2RN are insanely dear and alternative options are already known by Baeur from their other stations

GSF

Is nationwide coverage really worth the cost to a radio operator? I’m not sure anyone would even want the frequencies if they are obliged to provide 99% geographical coverage

Sleepy

It's well past time for it to be let die, were it forced to run itself on a commercial basis, it'd have shuttered years ago.

The most damning indictment I can think of for the station: of the 12 presets on the stereo in our family car: XMAS FM has a slot, 2FM doesn't.

jrmb

(In response to TheBMG. For some reason the quote button didn't work.)

Not to mention Phantom/TXFM, where not even the incumbent applied for the licence.

Chopper Dave

If 2FM is loss making then it requires Licence Fee money to survive and to plug those losses. Given the trajectory of its recent JNLR ratings then I can only assume that the Licence Fee subsidy (I think I read 2 million) is going to grow.

Surely there is a "win" for RTE to just shut 2FM down on the basis that there will be more money available for genuine Public Service programming. It would be a symbolic move as it probably doesn't save that much money but, as others have pointed out, it's hard to see a sale of 2FM attracting much on the open market. The station itself doesn't offer anything that Spin, iRadio, Spotify etc doesn't already offer so it would be easier than shutting down something like Lyric or RnaG where there are far fewer (free) alternatives.

ZaK23-54

Well said

KildareP

From a very quick scan of their annual reports over the last 10 years, 2FM's funding from the license fee was:

• 2021: €3.512m of €10.183m was license fee funded
• 2020: €3.845m of €10.253m was license fee funded
• 2019: €3.4m of €10.532m was license fee funded
• 2018: €4.679m of €11.511m was license fee funded
• 2017: €6.749m of €10.758m was license fee funded
• 2016: €5.097m of €12.281m was license fee funded
• 2015: €5.31m of €12.055m was license fee funded
• 2014: €5.643m of €11.095m was license fee funded
• 2013: €6.212m of €11.053m was license fee funded
• 2012: €5.439m of €11.688m was license fee funded

2FM is still nowhere close to being self-sufficient by any means. While their reliance on the license fee has reduced, so has their costs as opposed to any apparent offset through increased commercial revenue.

And while RTÉ were hinting at shuttering Lyric FM in 2018/2019 blaming cost cutting requirements, 2FM was receiving over 50% of Lyric's subvention each year for itself with no mention of risk of 2FM facing severe cuts or closure. What PSB remit did 2FM provide for that funding that Lyric apparently didn't?

To look at selling, anyone buying the station won't be able to retain the brand, they presumably won't be able to retain access to studio facilities, and they'll most certainly lose that license fee subvention. Staff appear to be mostly contracted on a combined TV and Radio basis, would you get the staff?

What asking price could RTÉ therefore place on 2FM - what is actually for sale? What would you be buying?

Assuming an operator bought the station "as is", they'd be looking at immediate operating cost reductions of well in excess of €3.5m a year just to break even since the license fee will no longer plug the gap.

Then they'd need to factor in how to recoup whatever asking price RTÉ put on 2FM.

Then they'll need to factor in how to recoup their capital costs in building studios and facilities, unless they're just looking to extend an existing local/regional station to fully national.

Easier for any speculator to just allow 2FM fail and then hope you can get your hands on the equivalent national FM license (assuming it was readvertised), take over the existing 2RN transmission agreement and put your station in its place.

Now, another avenue might be if RTÉ were split into an exclusively license fee-funded PSB arm and an exclusively commercially-funded and operated arm. Could RTÉ do a joint-venture with someone like RTL Group (hark back to the Atlantic 252 days) with a relaunched 2FM?

GSF

2fm’s cost structure is totally out of whack compared to the rest of the radio industry in Ireland. It might be justified if the output was unique or special and not available elsewhere but very little of that is true and the specialist output is probably the cheapest stuff to produce anyway. You could give Bauer a grant of 500k a year to do specialist shows off peak and save 3m a year

loyatemu

If 2FM didn't already exist, there's no way RTE would launch it. It overlaps with a load of commercial services and is not in any way unique.

But the counter-argument is that if RTE is a public service broadcaster that we all pay for, it should be providing something for all the public, including young people who like pop music, & not just fans of classical music, jazz and whatever other genres aren't being catered for by the commercial stations. People already resent the license fee, they'd resent it even more if RTE cuts all the stuff it does that's actually popular.

GSF

Why not play the music that commercial radio won’t playlist?

Bard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809725#Comment_120809725

what music is that exactly??

rob316

Just shut it down, there is no value in spinning it off. It's a blackhole in RTE's finances

its_steve116

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809919#Comment_120809919

The kind of stuff TXFM would have played

ZaK23-54

Agree ..and join Lyric and and Gold together as one station!!!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810353#Comment_120810353

TXFMs potential audience didn't fund a single transmitter local station - it would not fund a national one either.

Newscorp as a potential buyer are quite distracted picking over the bones of the Telegraph in the UK so they can probably be removed from my list of virtually nobody that might want to buy too

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810364#Comment_120810364

God no! Lyric is shîte. I’d close Lyruc.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120795516#Comment_120795516

It wouldn't be sold to create a profit from the sale, it would be sold to lower costs, which is exactly what it would do.

XabiAlonso22

Doireann Garrihy and Skoda Mullan surely will be off the air now?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810641#Comment_120810641

plenty of better ways to lower costs then selling off a national network for the sake of it to be honest.

and they would actually lower costs and allow more money to be spent on ps content which could use the national network currently being used by 2fm.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810869#Comment_120810869

I imagine that they wouldn't be offloading the network infrastructure, just the brand, the associated goodwill etc, broadcasting frequencies, contracts and so on.

TheBMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811566#Comment_120811566

Damaged brand. It’s running at a loss. Also not their frequencies to sell (that’s Comreg and the ITU). There’s no feasible way just to ‘sell it off’.