World's hottest day since records began

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881345#Comment_120881345

The only crops which make sense using stacked agriculture are high value high retail cost items - which should tell you everything you need to know about its value to actually addressing hunger and need. The actual area each stack can be is incredibly small since light penetration (the fuel of food production) is very limited. So only really practical for cities growing herbs and high value salads. The costs of construction are significant and they displace valuable real estate which would be better for high density living.

Not the solution you suggest. When you come up with something that actually helps anything then I will be right behind it.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881265#Comment_120881265

Like all peasant agriculture - it only makes sense if cheap (ie free) labour is in abundance. In Russia during the soviet era 80% of the food was produced on 10% of the land around peasants houses - it worked because they were all dirt poor.

Good luck on selling that to the people.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881386#Comment_120881386

High density living? What are you waffling about?

These food factories can be built anywhere- where you won’t be building high density housing:

Also:

”Although almost any crop can be grown hydroponically, the most common are leaf lettuce, tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, strawberries, watercress, celery and some herbs. One key factor in system design for a particular crop is how it is supported in the nutrient solution.”

Also:

Place your hydroponic mat in a growing tray and sprinkle wheatgrass seeds over surface of the mat. Hemp growing mats perform best when not over watered. Keep mat moist, but not saturated with water. Water levels should not be higher than the top of the growing medium and water should not be allowed to pool.

Also:

In fact, pretty much the only plants that don't adapt well to hydroponic gardening are ones that need a lot of space to sprawl, climb, or grow (like vines and trees) and root crops (think potatoes, carrots, onions).

so yeah pretty much any vegetable bar tomatoes and vine type plants (even then they can be grown with a bit of difficulty)can be grown using multi levelled hydroponics in factories.

You are talking crap to suit your doomsday narrative.

Ireland could and should become self sufficient in food production using this process.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881131#Comment_120881131

Just build intensive hydroponic food factories on the bad land- job done.

Next issue…….

InAtFullBack

Is the media or the science making the claim as set out in the original post.

Going by the site who provided the data, they clearly have a big health warning attached to the data presented. The mean global temperature increases in early July 2023, estimated from the Climate Forecast System, should NOT be taken as "official" observational records.

So - its data that is not to be relied upon according to the horses mouth so to speak. Next crisis please.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881043#Comment_120881043

Guess how much fruit and veg the Inuit have been eating the past 10,000 years? A Norwegian explorer, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, went and lived with the Inuit in 1906, when they were still living their traditional pre western influenced lifestyle. He literally went native and only ate their diet, which contained no fruit or vegetables and essentialy no carbohydrates, and yet remained healthy. http://www.comby.org/documents/documents_in_english/stefansson-diet-adventures.htm

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881753#Comment_120881753

Inuit are highly adapted. Their diet would kill you.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880658#Comment_120880658

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880692#Comment_120880692

Geldof will organise a concert for us and 40 years later, we will have a population of 50m

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881546#Comment_120881546

Musk's brother Kimball had a company that did this but it has just gone bust

Supercell

Don't look up :(

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229065

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881814#Comment_120881814

What a surprise 😄

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881814#Comment_120881814

Probably too early for it at the moment as the world has an oversupply of food- the foods just not distributed evenly.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881924#Comment_120881924

So your plan is to wait until there's already a massive crisis, when it might become commercially viable and then begin preparing for a world with nowhere near enough food for everyone to survive on. I'm really glad you're not in charge.

How long do you think it would take to build the infrastructure to become food independent in Ireland? And to migrate to hydroponic food production globally? How many resources would it take (just so the wealthiest 2% can survive comfortably)

We would be much much better off spending those resources now, on decarbonising the global energy system ASAP so that the food chain doesn't collapse and we don't see global temperatures soar by 5c and the collapse of civilization that will likely foment.

I have to doubt your sincerity given your extreme cynicism towards the existing mature technologies that we should be using instead of Fossil Fuel extraction

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881958#Comment_120881958

Unfortunately things won't happen on a large scale until it becomes economically viable. Companies won't invest and governments don't want to rock the boat too much.

If we could start food growing programs in schools (those with space to do so), even to grow some easy veg and fruit, that would be a start. Hopefully some kids would take that home and start growing in gardens, even container (as in flower pot container) food is possible. Food grown could be used in HE classes (or whatever home ec is called these days) or donated. And kids would have some knowledge of how much effort goes into growing food and some future proofing.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881998#Comment_120881998

Most kids grow potatoes in primary school. Like a baby potato each over the course of a school term.

They learn the concept of growing food but concepts are not that nourishing.

If the inputs to agricultural production are carbon neutral then the outputs will be sustainable too

That's why the drive to carbon free energy needs 4 things

1. Carbon taxes (because the pollution caused by emitting carbon dioxide is not free and someone should be paying for it)

2. Ending subsidies for Fossil Fuels

3. Better regulations to prevent toxic wastes from entering the environment

4. State supported investment in renewable infrastructure globally

Renewables are already cost competitive with fossil fuels, but the infrastructure to support it is lagging behind. It took decades of state supports to build the infrastructure for Oil Gas and Coal. We need to massively increase our efforts to replace that with modern carbon neutral infrastructure

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882020#Comment_120882020

Agree, but I don't see how they happen without massive hardship to many people (and that is leaving out the global investment as I don't see how EU, USA, Russia, China, India, etc agree without a cataclysmic Hollywood blockbuster type event).

Removing fossil fuel subsidy makes heating homes with oil and gas systems much more expensive. People would need massive help and enough competent installers to switch to carbon neutral or lower carbon heat systems. I would love to see some ideas on how this could be done.

Regulations, yes, but also enforcement is needed. And appropriate levels of punishment, with some kind of measure or insurance type system to ensure that companies can fully pay for fines and restoration.

Carbon taxes, agree, but I think these need to be global as well. A new car gets built somewhere and bought in Ireland, that should be Ireland's carbon tax issue. If we could apply that to all the crap that is made far away and imported, used for 30 minutes and throw away, especially fast fashion type clothing, it would have a big impact.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880692#Comment_120880692

Absolutely wrong. We are one of the only nations on the planet who have the capability to be self sufficient. There is zero chance we wouldn't be able to feed ourselves if the pressure was on.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881789#Comment_120881789

It didn't kill Stefansson, nor would it anyone else, that's the point made in the link I provided and which you obviously didn't bother reading.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881600#Comment_120881600

well, that gave me a chuckle. if the claim that we've had a string of hottest days ever is not a rigorous scientific conclusion, there's nothing to worry about?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881958#Comment_120881958

What the hell are you on about?

Where have I shown cynicism towards existing mature technologies which I presume you are talking about solar and wind? 😂

I am fully in favour of wind and solar and have mentioned that multiple times in multiple threads that you greenies tend to inhabit.

What I am not in favour of is private companies serving shareholders ahead of customers which is what’s happening with the generation setup in this country ever since the ESB was broke up and will accelerate with private generation companies providing renewable generation.

Now, can you show me where I said I want to wait until there’s a massive food crisis to build multi level hydroponic food farms? You won’t be able to because you imagined that and it suits your narrative.

As for going on about the rich 2%? I really have no idea what you’re on about and I doubt you have too.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882020#Comment_120882020

As has been pointed out to you many many times we need gas for when wind output is low in winter (when solar is also low).

I can’t understand how you’d don’t understand this basic point?

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882501#Comment_120882501

Which is why I believe the OP said drive to and not immediate switch. Also, looking at his global comment, if we could get everyone to realise this is a world problem then interconnections and trading energy between windy or sunny locations and calm cloudy locations would be an option.

Would need state support rather than private enterprise though I believe

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882646#Comment_120882646

Yeah that poster I replied to has repeatedly stated they want an immediate ban on fossil fuels- foolishness of the highest order.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880248#Comment_120880248

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880248#Comment_120880248

More people, more CO2. Thanks for showing the details. Obvious correlation. And the temperatures and knock on effects continue.

Doesn't matter what the rate of CO2 release is - perhaps if it reaches negative worldwide, the environmental decay will slow or something else will kick in.

Don't add additional humans though, that's just cruel.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882785#Comment_120882785

Ok, so you can't read. Ireland's population increased,CO2 emissions went down

Shoog

You need a 1.5℅ falling in population per year for netzero to work.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882020#Comment_120882020

1. Carbon taxes (because the pollution caused by emitting carbon dioxide is not free and someone should be paying for it)

No, absolutely no way this should be allowed. Carbon taxes hurt the poor the most.

2. Ending subsidies for Fossil Fuels

Apart from fuel allowance for the worst off of families, in part due to the above carbon taxes - there are no major subsidies for fossil fuels in Ireland.

3. Better regulations to prevent toxic wastes from entering the environment

Agreed - harsher fines for corporations that do and any public sector body that does should see sackings at the top level.

4. State supported investment in renewable infrastructure globally

Here's a solution - the government should capitalise the ESB to install solar panels on every viable household roof in Ireland. The cost of which is borne by the ESB from said capital. The power the household generates in monetary terms pays back the capital and install costs of the solar panels. The end result is, almost every house is now an energy producer which cost them nothing, in a few years every household then sees the benefit of having power sold back to the grid.

The problem though is, no body makes a killing in the above - so the political will to do it won't be there.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882459#Comment_120882459

We are told 'follow the science' - therefore if the authors of the data says it should not be taken as official, then it goes without saying that these hottest July days ever should just be taken with a pinch of salt until such time as hard observed data becomes available.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120883028#Comment_120883028

Ok, pinch of salt added. What difference does that make?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120883028#Comment_120883028

The official figures will not be released until they are collated and analysed beyond the end of the year. Doesn't mean that the provisional figures are inaccurate though.