Rugby Championship 2023

AdamD

The outcome was caused by reckless actions, stopping stupidly reckless chargedowns isn't going to be the end of rugby.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919674#Comment_120919674

The closest I can think is a tweak on this example.

Under a high ball one player stays on the ground. The other player jumps above the other player and gathers the ball but while they're in the air their hip connects with the head of the player on the ground and he is knocked out.

Most of the time the player on the ground would actually be the one who is sanctioned, especially if the player in the air ends up tipping over.

Feel the refs on the pitch got it right on Saturday, sometimes unfortunate rugby incidents happen.

irelandrover

I'm leaning towards a red card. He turned his body to protect himself and resulted in hitting a player direct to the head with his hip.

He caused the situation and protected himself ahead of the player he put in danger.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921063#Comment_120921063

Yeah, his body position when he collided was terrible and was reckless. But another point is that he touched the ball because it was an awful kick with an angle that was way too low for an attempted clearance. The fact that he blocked the ball could just as easily be ignored for that reason. If he hadn't blocked the ball would it have been an easier decision for the ref to award a card?

fitz

Pretty sure if he hadn't touched the ball we wouldn't still be discussing it, he'd have gotten a red card and I don't think anyone would have argued with it.

TheRona

https://twitter.com/AllBlacks/status/1686897393378492420

NZ have made about a dozen changes for this weekend. Still a very strong side.

TheRona

And the Aussie team

https://twitter.com/wallabies/status/1686852606797414402

Buer

NZ make 12 changes and retain 3. Australia make 3 changes and retain 12.

Illustrates how much of a threat the Australian team is seen as by the hosts.

Will be fun to see if Stevenson can replicate his club form. Been arguably the best winger in Super Rugby this season and was a menace in the RDS last November.

sydthebeat

And NZ are still 21 point favourites for the game...

Buer

If Australia get thumped here, I think there will be genuine talk of Eddie Jones having lost the squad. John Connolly's comments were incredible last week. Can you imagine a former Irish coach speaking like this about the current coach?

What makes it more incredible is that they've signed him up for 5 years. Even if the RWC is a disaster and they scrape out of their pool (their pool is just too pathetic not to get out of it) and then get comfortably beaten in the QF, it will mean nothing. Jones has them over a barrel. They won't have the money to pay him off.

Connolly:

'How did we end up with Eddie again? He is full of it. He talks a great game but plays a terrible one,' Connolly, who labelled the comeback a 'bloody disaster', told the Telegraph.

'He is a charlatan, he is a failed selector. He was the captain's pick by the chairman who just came into the job. 'When I took over from Eddie, the players were like beaten down sheepdogs. If you walked in a room they would have their heads down and were scared to do anything.'

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933255#Comment_120933255

Stevenson was brilliant in that game, interested to see how he goes.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933255#Comment_120933255

I think it illustrates the depth NZ has more than anything. Virtually every player could hold their own against the best in the world in their position.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933304#Comment_120933304

It was a ridiculous call to get rid of Rennie. Australia had shown a lot of promise in their tour up here last November.

Someone posted an interview with Eddie Jones on one of these threads, and he came across really well. On the other hand, he was talking about getting back Australia's rugby identity by essentially playing direct-running one-off rugby. Not exactly inspiring stuff.

TheRona

17-3 to Aussie over NZ at half time.

Aussie dominated territory and possession. I don't think NZ ever really got into the Aussie 22.

Australia played well overall. Stevenson poor for both Australia tries, and McKenzie had a shocker with the boot.

TheRona

NZ hit the lead with 15 mins to go. A complete reversal of the first half with NZ dominating.

Injury to Retallick in the first half didn't look good. Hopefully not his ACL.

TheRona

NZ win 23-20. Harsh on Australia, they played well.

Not a coincidence that NZ looked much better when Mo'unga came on for McKenzie. Totally changed the game.

rudiger2.0

Why was the game on so much earlier than usual? I woke up a few minutes ago excited to watch it only to be disappointed.

Football world cup maybe?

Brief_Lives

decent presser from Eddie after the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv44kvqIKUs

Locke_Lamora

Just caught up on the charge down debacle and I cannot for the life of me understand how so many people online seem to think it was fine because 'he made a genuine attempt at a charge down.' If you allow this sort of play and follow it to its natural conclusion you would be declaring open season on flyhalves. All I need to do is jump high and stretch out my arms to prove I'm making a genuine attempt and, when I inevitably fail in charging it down, I simply brace myself for contact with the kickers head. He's defenseless. This is not a 'rugby incident' as people are calling it because the defender is entirely in control of the outcome as the kicker is stationary and easily avoided.

Well then what are players supposed to do, not charge it down? Yes. Yes they are. If they don't think they can charge the ball down without knocking a player out and potentially ruining their career they should simply do something else. Plenty of charge downs happen without the added element of assault - they can angle their run, just stay on their feet or jump and land before contact with the kicker. I promise you the game of rugby is not being ruined because players haven't been given carte blanche to clobber at flyhalf's head.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941577#Comment_120941577

Agreed. The difference between dmacjb and Richie was stark. Dmack was responsible for about 6 possession turn overs, kicking terribly from hands, and didn't seem to be able to organise anything substantial.

There no question now as to who NZs number 10 is.

biglad40

Japan v Fiji is on rugby pass on astromalaysia for those in the know

TheRona

Did anyone see the Japan red card? They're down 21-0, can't see them coming back with a man down.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941939#Comment_120941939

It wasn't an attempt to charge down the kick, he successfully charged down the kick. So your claim that if this was allowed, it would be open season on fly halves is false. Personally I think it was just a rugby incident but the suspension might put it in the players heads that they will need to be more careful when charging down kicks. Still wouldn't want to see red cards for successful charge downs.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941976#Comment_120941976

Agree with yourself and @TheRona Mo'unga is definitely the first choice 10. DMac had a great Super Rugby season but just isn't quite there in top level internationals. Good bench option as he covers 10 and 15 and could be a game changer in the last 20 to 30 minutes. Much like Beauden Barrett was when he first came into the ABs.

He will be useful in the RWC starting against Tier 2 countries as he will carve them up. Even against Italy he would be good but if he starts against France or any of the knockout matches, I'd be very nervous.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120942644#Comment_120942644

Historically when players tried to block down a kick they dived towards the ball leaving the players foot to block it down. Jumping directly up and towards the kicker with the arms in the air and turning the hips at the last moment is incredibly dangerous and seems to be more prevalent these days. Much higher risk of hip to head contact.

Stander on Lambie (who ended up having to retire from concussion a few years later), Kleyn on Jamie Osborne earlier this year and the challenge last week are all examples of where the player on the receiving end of the ‘charge-down’ were seriously hurt. Harald Schumacher knocked out Battison, who ended up losing teeth, broken ribs and damaging his vertebrae, in the 1982 football World Cup with a similar challenge.

100% this needs to be cleaned up in the game. It shouldn't matter if a player makes contact with the ball or not, a jumping hip to head can change someone’s life forever.

Locke_Lamora

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120942644#Comment_120942644

He wasn't cited for charging the ball down though was he? He was cited for recklessness and making contact with the kickers head.

It doesn't make sense to allow the lay to go on if the charge down was made and penalise it if it was missed - either the play was dangerous or it wasn't. To say this play should be allowed is to legally allow contact with a players head as long as a genuine attempt to charge it down is made ie. open season.

What is a 'rugby incident'? People seem to spread it around as something they just don't think should be penalised or something synonymous with rugby 'going soft.' To me, a rugby incident is something unavoidable and out of the players control. The play in question was entirely within the players control - the kicker was stationary, the defender had the option to approach in a different (non-dangerous) way, so the play is entirely avoidable.

ersatz

Replacement NZ front crushed oz in the 2nd half, ably assisted by some poor calls by the ref. Neither of these teams looking like world beaters today, though oz looking improved.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120943048#Comment_120943048

By that logic nothing on a rugby pitch is 'a rugby incident' doesn't exist. No matter what happens on the pitch the players have some level of control of what happens.

The judgement itself is pretty all over the place on it too. Between specifically calling out the historic refereeing of charge downs, the limited fault of Malia, and in my opinion over-focusing on the result of the action rather than the legality of the action. Reads like they were just going of feelings which is far from ideal.

Locke_Lamora

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949126#Comment_120949126

Thats not at all what that logic implies and that’s a ridiculous argument to make for this scenario but I believe you already know that.

The kicker was stationary so there’s no mitigation to be applied here like a sudden drop in being hit as with high tackles. I’ll hold my hands up and admit I’m not a referee or an expert on the laws, but I would infer a general duty on the defender not to knock players out when charging the ball down. Just adjust your run.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949535#Comment_120949535

You said this:

To me, a rugby incident is something unavoidable and out of the players control. 

In most cases in the example you highlight of 'a sudden drop' there wouldn't be head contact if the player controlled their tackle height and went even lower to start off with, like going for the legs than sternum. Similarly, there would rarely, if ever, be a high level of danger in head contact if every tackle was passive rather than trying to win a collision.

There is hardly anything in the game of rugby where something is completely out of a player's control. What you claim as being 'unavoidable' is just slightly different to others who see this chargedown incident differently.