12% minimum wage increase recommended

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885964#Comment_120885964

No. They dont. Minimum wages are attempts by the government to price control. Government price controls never do good because governments are very bad at pricing accurately. This is why the USSR failed. Minimum wages can be set above the real value of labour, in which case they deny jobs to people without many skills like teens and formers addicts and cause unnecessary business failures. Minimum wages can be set below the real value of labour, but in this case they have no beneficial impact. The only positive thing I can say about minimum wages is that they tend to encourage automatization which is good for humanity.

Dav010

The increase in wages just gets passed on to the consumer in those sectors where minimum wage jobs are more prevalent. No great mystery about that, we then get to complain more about the costs of goods and services. If the business cannot afford the increase and/or cannot remain competitive due to the increase, they close, then we get to complain about businesses failing and lack of jobs.

fascinatingbeauty

The recommended increase in the minimum wage might be seen as excessive, potentially affecting businesses and leading to some marginal ones closing down.

Danzy

Not a hope it will happen, what was the point in bringing in a 100k Ukrainian refugees and giving them pps numbers then?

One contradicts the other

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885878#Comment_120885878

Maybe the rents should go down....

make it Illegal for the Upward only rent reviews

Make it illegal to have vacant commercial property in towns and city centres (a vacant property tax equivalent to x percent of the average rent for properties in that area with CPOs for properties that are allowed to go derelict)

If rents were lower, businesses would be able to operate with lower fixed costs, and would be able to pay their workers more.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890433#Comment_120890433

Minimum wages aren't price controls. They're a form of workers protection.

Are you also opposed to stopping child labour? Maybe 12 year olds should have the right to work 40 hours a week making textiles for a few cents an hour?

Are you opposed to statutory holidays?

Are you opposed to minimum rest periods?

Are you opposed to health and safety regulations?

Di you also think social welfare are 'price fixing' by the state? Do you think the government should remove all income supports so that they are not competing with the employers who want to hire workers at the lowest possible wage?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890480#Comment_120890480

Not necessarily. Higher minimum wages mean employees have more disposable income. It means more people are able to participate in the local economy. If there are 20 people in a Cafe having a coffee, then the extra 1.30 gets split amongst those 20 customers. If there are 2 customers an hour having a coffee, because more people have no disposable income and are on the breadline, then the cost of that coffee needs to go up by 70c to cover the increased wage of the waiter

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890487#Comment_120890487

Increasing minimum wage in line with inflation is not excessive. The prices go up first, the wages go up later. If anything, the business owners get all that extra income in the year up to the wage increase while the workers are paying higher prices on the same income.

The Minimum wage was supposed to be set at 60% of the median wage when it was introduced in 2000. It has fallen behind, so lower paid workers are now relatively poorer than they were in 2000. minimum wage should be closer to €13 per hour to keep up with 60% of median wage

Of course, the other question is whether Median wages have kept up with the rate of inflation, or have the middle classes been getting poorer while higher earners are getting more of a share of the national wealth.

I think the rental market in Dublin is massively distorting the wage economy in Ireland. Rents in Dublin mean wages and prices have to be much higher.

What is happening to bring down rents in Dublin? There are a lot of private and institutional investors sitting on land banks and vacant properties just hoarding them as a store of wealth.

13% of commercial property in Dublin is vacant as of the end of 2021. The commercial valuations of properties are declining, but these are not feeding into reduced rents. Commercial property investors are happier to see a projected decline in the value of their properties now, rather than lock those declines in through accepting lower rents (probably doesn't help that they can write off the losses from writing down their asset values against any realised profits)

Blarney_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890731#Comment_120890731

You mean tax on the small landlords should go down? The state takes 52% or rental income from small landlords (depending on their PAYE bracket, but most landlords will be in the higher one). So the rent you pay is split 52% to the state, 48% to landlord who has cost of mortgage, insurance, maintenance etc. Landlord is not your enemy, the state is! And you are calling for even more of state involvement, come on, wake up!

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890901#Comment_120890901

I would agree with your opening sentence provided that Income Tax credits and bands are adjusted annually for inflation. Any upward adjustment is labelled a "tax cut" by lazy leftist media types. Wage and salary increases tend to get eaten away by failure to adjust the Income Tax structure.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890754#Comment_120890754

I am against child labour because children are not adults and can't consent.

Statutory holidays are a nations cultural expression. They are good.

Minimum rest periods are bad. You'd have to specific health and safety legislation.

Price controls are not a good thing. Bad things are not good in moderation. I am not an outlier. People who study this have mixed opinions but overall they tend to agree with me. Look at this survey of economists. https://www.kentclarkcenter.org/surveys/minimum-wage/

Blarney_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890966#Comment_120890966

I hope @Akrasia is not banned and would like to answer to my question here.

Akrasia - If you are elected tomorrow, how would you sort out tax burden on small or accidental landlords that pay 52% tax and all overheads on top?

Would you Akrasia take out investment mortgage under that terms?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866746#Comment_120866746

people seem to think min wage = low skilled/menial jobs or struggling business

I worked for a 4* spa & hotel resort last year that paid me €10.50/hr.

Guess what my job was.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895951#Comment_120895951

Whatever it is, he market set it at amongst the lowest possible rates, so I’m guessing you weren’t anything to lofty, so go on, tell us you were the general manager.

Blarney_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895951#Comment_120895951

If you worked for 10.50 with more than 1 year experience, that is your fault, you should've gotten more. If you feel you are underpaid, move, on, free market will do it :)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891704#Comment_120891704

wait sorry what?

min rest periods are bad? So you think employers should be free to schedule staff to work above 48 hours a week?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895971#Comment_120895971

I was a pastry chef.

You won’t find a pastry chef working for €10.50 (or indeed €11.30) an hour in Bangladesh never mind Ireland mate. He offset nothing against the market rate he was a cowboy.

But money was tight and €10.50 was better than 0/hr at the time. I am making about 40% more than this in my current workplace (my wage is actually the same as the Sous Chef lol) but it’s a smaller spot so I’m more forgiving they don’t have the kinda money the hotel has.

Bear in mind, I was a chef working in a kitchen charging €40 on average for a main course. They were not low on cash either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895976#Comment_120895976

As I say, sometimes a **** wage is better than no wage.

Not the point I’m making though, rather that perhaps we should not be looking at min wage as something only unskilled workers or people working “menial” jobs are paid.

fact is there’s lads out sweeping footpaths all day getting paid more than people bursting their balls in a Silver Service restaurant kitchen. the system is broken and cowboys will use it to extort cheap labour from people.

I was caught between a rock and a hard place, we were still reeling from covid, hotels and restaurants were only getting back into full swing and I took the first job I was offered to get me back in a decent position and off the covid pay.

It’s interesting that the employer taking the piss is somehow my fault though.

edit: laughing too cos if I said I was on the dole instead I’d be a lazy scrounging scumbag bollox

so I’m stupid for taking a min wage job knowing I’m worth more

but if I didn’t work til I found a job that paid appropriately and stayed on the dole I’m a sponger

ok then

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870474#Comment_120870474

You seem to have a very poor understanding of business. Coffe shops need to be selling a helluva lot of coffee to turn a profit.

The few cent gross profit has to cover high electricity costs, wages, rates, rent, insurance, maintenance of machines, periods that the shop isn't busy, staff holidays, higher wage cost of bank holidays, compulsory sick pay etc etc etc. I could go on. You seem to be of the belief that every coffee shop is churning out 100s of coffees per day.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896019#Comment_120896019

Most people feel they are worth more, if you took a min wage job, either that is the market rate, or you value your labour below market rate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896075#Comment_120896075

No, it was actually more that I value my families safety and comfort, Dav.

Maybe it’s news to you, but believe it or not landlords, the ESB, supermarkets and the likes don’t actually accept a promise to pay, they require the actual money.

So once the covid payment stopped coming in I didn’t have much of a choice. Unless of course you occupy the fantasy land where there’s work for everyone and if you’re not working/in a shite job it’s your fault.

But you wanna know what he says when I asked for a wage increase to cover travel costs?

I should take a shorter shower to save money. By the sounds of it, Dav, I’d nearly believe you were him.

Potential-Monke

It's obvious why things will never change... Whoever said min rest periods are bad must be a business owner or manager. 39 is still too much for most jobs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896184#Comment_120896184

Trying working 70 a week then being told you should take a shorter shower to save money because the business was too broke to give a wage increase…

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886081#Comment_120886081

Or so suppliers say so they can charge what they want