Which brand of plug sockets to buy.

kabakuyu

I need to replace a few double sockets, can anyone recommend a good brand, I am bamboozled by the choice on screwfix.RECI will be doing work but i cant contact him at the moment.

horseman34

Stay away from lap, I think mk do the job quite nicely

10-10-20

Going beyond screwfix for a moment, your local electrical wholesaler will have a good selection of brands and finishes and at better prices than Screwfix. They all typically stock Schneider, MK, Nexus, Deta... selection is almost endless. Common wholesalers are: Eurosales, Kellehers, EWL, Wesco... and they typically have display modules available.

2011

personally I like the MK Logic plus range.

Also available with USB A and USB C outlets on double sockets.

Hotblack Desiato

MK all the way. The BG stuff in B&Q is total rubbish and only slightly cheaper. Had the switches on a double socket fail after only a couple of years, had a horrible stiff action even when new.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880591#Comment_120880591

I would avoid USB sockets

Each to their own I guess

Hotblack Desiato

The thing I've never been able to find out about USB sockets is how much power they use when not in use. A small amount surely, but not nothing either.

Also the idea of having a wee bit of no-name Chinese electronics on a 32A MCB does not fill me with joy.

kirk.

Aside from incorporating electronics into a socket outlet which I think is a bad idea

I haven't seen too many issues with cheap sockets

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880984#Comment_120880984

They don’t consume any power when switched off using the switch on the socket outlet.

10-10-20

Which brands offer this @2011, I've yet to see any which allow the USB to be isolated by the physical switch?

2011

MK

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882315#Comment_120882315

ok thanks, must look at them. It wasnt an option on MK when i installed some 3 years back.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882545#Comment_120882545

You are making me doubt myself now! I will test the isolation theory out when I get back home. I’m abroad at the moment. Will update you on this thread.

kirk.

I'd hazard a guess they're separate

Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense switching off USB with appliance

You'd have people switching appliance back on to use the USB

I thought electronics these days could auto detect a load or cable even

10-10-20

They can Kirk, but you still have to power that circuitry, and that becomes the vampire load. 0.05W is what some units draw when in low-power mode.

@2011, MK do have a new range of sockets called the Connected Power series and they are specifically targeted at large commercial installations where monitoring and management at the socket is required and these do feature an internal isolation switch for the internal electronics for use during periodic testing. Efixx did a pres on them a couple of weeks ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3Xb76DHj4

But as for general USB sockets, I'm not sure that they have the isolation at-the-switch built-in.

10-10-20

And further on the off-topic topic of USB sockets... 😁

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/professional-resources/technical-e-news/investigation-into-uk-socket-outlets-incorporating-usb-charging-points/

...some of the cheaper brands are really shyte.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882757#Comment_120882757

I think i realized my mistake on auto detect as i was posting 😁

2011

Very nice:

https://buildings.honeywell.com/content/dam/hbtbt/en/documents/document-lists/mk-electric/gb_brochures/MK-USB-Charging-Solutions-brochure_UKMK446-0321-EN.pdf

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120883766#Comment_120883766

Interesting. Seems that the USB isn't isolated by the switches in this range, but I'm confused by this part:

I think that the text is talking about the modular USB charger (hotel type install jobbie) and not the integrated USB device within the socket... not sure. Can't see a way to isolate the USB part otherwise...

kirk.

Could mean you disconnect the socket before testing

Don't know why anyone would bother with them

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120884565#Comment_120884565

I’m not so sure, see this part:

On second thoughts this is just to prevent an open neutral on the LV outlets.

kirk.

I doubt any USB sockets will switch off USB at socket

Doesn't seem logical to me switching on/off appliance with usb. If it did they would already be manufactured that way

astrofool

I haven't seen any that do that, have a few brand's, mostly BG and MK (MK are the better quality and an easier install, but haven't had any issues with BG yet, going on 4-5 years).

Everything bar the plugs I buy is MK.

I’ve both MK and more designer ones by Legrand and both are excellent. I wouldn’t use cheap sockets. It’s just not worth it and for the white simple plastic ones, MK Logic is consistently good quality.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885685#Comment_120885685

Cheap sockets don't give much trouble in normal use ime , no doubt mk is better quality

I'm not sold on the idea of electronics incorporated into sockets

Issues with testing them and then of course the ever changing charging technology. There's probably different opinions on them

A bit like cheap tyres. Simple devices but something you’re probably better off not skimping on..

I don’t see the point of incorporating USB chargers anyway. It doesn’t add much convenience.

Simple and solid!

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887572#Comment_120887572

Using high quality USB sockets such as MK reduces fire risk IMHO. There is no end of articles on the internet about fires caused by poor quality USB chargers. We don’t use plug in USB chargers in our home for that reason.

The link above illustrates the safety features built in to the high quality MK USB outlets.

I have noticed that most new homes have USB outlets fitted as standard I believe this is now the norm and homes / coffee shops / offices / airports etc. without these will soon be less common. There is always some resistance to change but eventually everyone gets onboard. Move with the times or get left behind.

I just don't use poor quality USB chargers.

The other issue is that most of those sockets are USB-A which is rapidly becoming obsolete and replaced by USB-C

Speaking of which, I was shocked (pardon the pun) at the cost of some of those in France. I was upgrading a few around a holiday home. €59 for a USB-C + single socket with a decent bit of design from Legrand and over 60 quid for a double plate with no USB.

That yoke was almost €60 ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrJEHMgXHi8 (they've a flat plate that covers the recess until you push in a plug but even so .. pricy! I thought Irish prices were steep...)

EU fixed cable colours are completely ignored over there too, which is surprising. Still red (Live) + blue + green/yellow.

kirk.

I would argue it's a matter of choice on domestic sockets which I assume is what we are dicussing

Same safety principle applies to high quality separate chargers as high quality USB sockets

The separates can also easily upgrade with the new charging technologies

Basic USB outlets will be prevalent lots of places , commercial etc for obvious reasons

Doesn't mean theres a need to fit them on domestic work for high value items with separate chargers

They make sense in places like airports and cafes where people might be arriving with chargers from other countries with different pins. It certainly saves on adaptors.

Most USB C wall plates cannot provide full power for a laptop for example or even do rapid charging for a mobile, so it's still not that much use for a lot of devices.

If you consider say my MacBook Pro adaptor it can deliver: 4.7 amps at 20.5V, or 3amps at 15V, 9V or 5.2V.

An MK USB C Socket is limited to 5.2V at 3amps.

For example, if you want to get a quick charge boost for a phone, you're much better off plugging in an original Apple or Samsung charger etc, rather than using a 3rd party USB-C socket and USB A is way too slow.

One of the most sensible designs I've seen (despite all the moaning about Apple and proprietary connectors on the end of iPhones) is Apple's USB-C laptop charger.

It's a compact power USB-C brick, with a 'duck head' connector on the mains side. So you can snap on a UK/Ireland plug, a continental CEE 7 plug, a US NEMA plug, Aussi plug, Chinese plug etc etc or just push in any IEC 'figure of 8' power cord. Extremely handy when travelling and those heads fit all of their chargers.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890200#Comment_120890200

They pretty much can ignore the L and N wiring in sockets over there as the plugs are reversible anyway, so there is no polarisation in that respect.

Polarity is actually are enforced in France and Belgium now - live on the right, neutral on the left. Only the flat 2.5amp plugs used on small appliances are reversible. However, I still wouldn't trust older wiring to be polarised though and EU harmonised regs don't require it anyway as 'Schuko' used in most countries is fully reversible. Sure even here you can reverse a 'figure of 8' connector without any issue. All their MCBs are DP though.

However, I was just more stunned at the price of French electrical accessories. They don't allow the general CEE 7 (schuko) stuff. It has to be French with the earth pin and polarisation and shutters. A lot of ppl seemed to think it was just protectionist lobbying by Legrand and Schneider Electrique.

However, I think until USB C (at full power output) becomes ubiquitous I wouldn't really be all that fussed about installing the sockets in a domestic setting. It's just expensive and also the electronics providing the USB C power are usually not isolatable with a switch, so are effectively connected 24/7.

I'd be more concerned about some of the crappier smart sockets and so on that are appearing. It could also get worse in years to come due to UK drift from CE standards or end up with poor customs enforcement and I would assume Ireland will be unable to enforce anti-grey market regs. A lot will depend on whether the UK goes for tight regs or free market laissez faire (burn the red tape etc etc)

There are plenty of dodgy looking electronic devices - USB sockets, smart sockets, data over mains or wifi etc that are being made to quite dubious standards and are widely available online and being integrated into people's fixed wiring.

kirk.

Commercial is a no brainer,people need USB sockets on the move ,airports, buses at work etc

Domestic you may prefer separates for expensive equipment

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890371#Comment_120890371

However, I think until USB C (at full power output) becomes ubiquitous I wouldn't really be all that fussed about installing the sockets in a domestic setting. It's just expensive and also the electronics providing the USB C power are usually not isolatable with a switch, so are effectively connected 24/7.

I don't know if common-or-garden wall sockets will ever offer full 100w or even 240w USB3, it's risky in a situation where you don't control the power delivery - ie the cable. I've had bad cables melt here just on 5v @ 2A. I'd like to think that devices which need >100w will require an approved power supply with a tethered (hardwired) cable. I know that the power configuration is controlled by the receiving device (the USB PD protocol) and that it should be able to identify a voltage sag due to a bad cable... but... I dunno.

But I could be wrong.

coylemj

I was getting my immmersion (Sink/Bath) switch replaced a few years ago and liked the design of the Hager/Sollysta switches and sockets so I've been gradually rolling out their light switches and switched wall sockets to replace old kit.

They say their USB socket (A+C) uses <150 mW in standby, what do the experts think? It's the one at the link below..

https://www.hager.ie/products-e-catalogue/wiring-accessories/sollysta/white-moulded/white-moulded-sockets/wmss82-usbac/104135.htm

You could see a lot of small electronics having optional USB C power though if buildings were actually wired for it - plenty use >100W

Although, other than countries using the enormous UK plugs we use here, most have a neat 2-pin mains for small devices e.g. CEE 7/16 (the flat 2.5amp Europlug) in Europe or NEMA 1-15 in the US, Canada & Japan, and the 2-pin version of the Aussi/NZ/Chinese plug, so I doubt it's all that relevant to manufacturers to be bothered as there are already very neat solutions in most other countries.

The fold up pin chargers that have appeared in this market in recent years have also resolved a lot of the issues of having to carry bulky devices.

2011

I was very glad of USB outlets on transatlantic flights! Agree,

USB C is the future, USB A is being phased out.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890717#Comment_120890717

Hager is a strong brand, likely to be up to spec.

kirk.

Why isn't there dedicated USB wall outlets available .You could simply switch them off in that case .

Or alternatively a central PS with modular components that can be upgraded and ELV wiring to wall outlets

Thinking out loud there but I'm not sold on USB sockets for domestic in the main

Centrally supplied USB C isn’t all that ideal. You get into low voltage and high amperage - big conductors, voltage drop and fire hazards.

Low voltage is fine over short runs but over long ones you start to see why 230V is used! I’ve seen some scary looking melted junctions on low voltage DIY halogen lighting. Thankfully cool, low wattage LEDs have largely done way with it!

I wouldn’t fancy having a few hundred watts running on 24V.

kirk.

Ya was thinking that mightn't be ideal with voltage /current

Main issue with12v halogen was the wiring and heat of bulb, don't recall any issues caused by the 12v itself

I’ve seen junctions literally melted by 12V from a large transformer driving 400W of halogens.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892341#Comment_120892341

Google didn't bring up much on USB only wall outlets

All they'd need is a fuse and a switch incorporated on a single plate

You'd be able to switch off and upgrades would be cheaper than USB sockets . They wouldn't be a retrofit item probably why they're not available?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893266#Comment_120893266

See the Honeywll/MK link provided by 2011 in the last page - this range has a hotel-style "Euro USB" module which fits into a wall-plate, but I don't see the plate in the brochure. Other than that I don't know of a USB-only socket. Not sure they are even viable outside that modular one.

There are definitely 'Euro' modules available for making up your own plates.

The biggest issue in Ireland or the UK is our sockets are designed to be very shallow and extremely flush with the wall. It's literally part of the original design concept from the 1940s and was considered important as one of the most common causes of shock was knocking surface mounted sockets off walls when cleaning, leaving broken fittings and exposed wiring. They used to be commonly installed on skirtings.

I remember reading some article about it as a piece of modern industrial design. It was something that was driven by female industrial designers in the 1940s who looked at the practicalities of it from a use point of view - that's why it has shutters, why it's flat etc etc. On the contrary, the US system for example is all about being cheap and easy to manufacture and Schuko is just a kludge of grandfathered standards.

A lot of other European countries have much deeper boxes to accommodate recessed sockets (Schuko/French ones are quite deep) or are a lot more tolerant of surface mounted stuff that sticks out. So you can't really get large modules like USB sockets into quite a lot of our socket boxes, at least without resulting in a bulky thing sticking out of the wall.

Then in North America, they use plasterboard (drywall) everywhere so you can fit anything you like as there's no depth issue.

We are very restricted on depth here.

coylemj

The biggest issue in Ireland or the UK is our sockets are designed to be very shallow and extremely flush with the wall. It's literally part of the original design concept from the 1940s and was considered important as one of the most common causes of shock was knocking surface mounted sockets off walls when cleaning, leaving broken fittings and exposed wiring. They used to be commonly installed on skirtings.

They were 'commonly installed on skirtings' because, in most houses, there was already a conduit in each room for the light switch and householders probably wanted to avoid one that travelled from the ceiling to just above the floor for each socket so running the wiring behind the skirting probably made sense.

And I would contend that the common cause of shocks was not knocking the socket off the surface mount, it was when a child stuck a metal pin into the (unshuttered) live hole of a two-pin socket which was only inches above the floor.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894112#Comment_120894112

Yes for sure. That and putting your fingers in between the plug and socket when there was no plastic finger protection around the pins.

kirk.

Is there any sign of standardizing USB charging all around or is it here ?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894309#Comment_120894309

It's all standardised, Kirk. USB2 were the common rectangular ones and that went up to 1.5A @ 5v. USB3 pushed that even further with higher voltages, but the trick is that the device needs to request the higher charging current by negotiating it with the charger (using this USB PD handshake).

https://www.androidauthority.com/usb-power-delivery-806266/

So right now if you plugged in a basic USB2 device into a USB2 port the max power delivery that you should obtain is 500mA @ 5v, while with USB3 it's 900mA at the same voltage. Some manufacturers have gone beyond this and offer higher basic power, but that's a out-of-USB-spec device in that case.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894374#Comment_120894374

I must keep up 😁

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891011#Comment_120891011

Dedicated USB outlets are available (in grid), here is a picture of some of mine (from MK):