United Ireland governing system

dublincc2

It’s not ugly, it’s distinctive and has represented Ireland for centuries, including being the modern coat of arms and seal of the president.

As for the breasts, grow up. It’s 2023. What’s your problem?

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923901#Comment_120923901

The old Parliament building on College Green is the natural and best choice for an all-Ireland parliament.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901051#Comment_120901051

Now you're talking!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926022#Comment_120926022

This is the seal of the President of Ireland:

This is the coat of arms of Ireland:

You are referring to the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Ireland. An English and later British invention, a puppet state. We are not going back there.

As for the breasts... why, exactly? Even if it wasn't a design straight off the British royal standard, which it is, why would you?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926606#Comment_120926606

This would cost many billions of euro, what would the benefit be?

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927289#Comment_120927289

No it wouldn't.

Hotblack Desiato

OK then, how much will it cost so?

We spunked a billion euro back in the day on Charlie McCreevy's pointless shuffling around of civil servants, but it did benefit FF landowners so there was that 🙄

That was a scheme much smaller in scale than relocating the entire apparatus of government somewhere else.

Where?

Why??

dublincc2

The breasts on the harp flag are distinctive and would be a popularly associated symbol of Ireland like the maple leaf for Canada.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898469#Comment_120898469

I can't remember where I read or heard it but it was something like "America's most unstable export was its executive governance model".

Our model is much better, though I agree the Seanad is just a talking shop.

Seth Brundle

To move the capital would involve thousands of key civil servants (and their families) having to move to another city. You'll also need to move teachers and other public servants "support staff" to move there in tandem. All of these people will need somewhere to live (pretty much ready to walk into).

How will this be done, at what cost to the exchequer and for what exact benefit?

Sam Russell

Most USA states have a small state capital - like Albany for New York - but it still has New York, New York as its major city.

The title 'Capital City' does not involve the apparatus of Gov moves to Armagh, anymore than it is centred on the Phoenix Park because that is the official residence of the President. It would be symbolic of a new UI.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928752#Comment_120928752

Albany/Schenectady/Troy (which is all, in reality, one urban area) has a population of about a quarter of a million, a train station with 750k annual passengers and an international airport.

The location of the apparatus of government is more or less the definition of the Capital City.

L1011

750k annual passengers is a commuter station in Europe - there's actually a number of Dublin commuter stations with around 1m year, if the only per station figures given are extrapolated (they are a single day snapshot)

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934468#Comment_120934468

Yes, but Armagh it ain't.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928651#Comment_120928651

Limerick mentioned here but point is valid..

'I will propose a solution that I would like the Minister to listen to. I would make a case for my home of Limerick - I am sure that the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, makes this case to the Minister daily - as a solution to the challenges facing Ireland. As Deputy Boyd Barrett outlined, it is difficult for people to purchase homes in Dublin. Dublin faces significant challenges - it is crowded and expensive. Limerick offers a solution. The much maligned decentralisation programme actually worked in Limerick, with Revenue and Irish Aid decentralising to there. Their decentralisation was successful. I encourage all Ministers to look to Limerick as a solution to Dublin's problems.'

Proper decentralisation involving the relocation of workers to regional hubs would bring incomes directly into regional towns and help create further spin-off businesses and jobs in their localities (a multiplier effect). The added boost is the cost savings that could potentially be made by selling government buildings in the capital and implementing lower wages to new recruits as they start on the lower scale.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938879#Comment_120938879

One of the biggest problems with "proper decentralisation" is that most of those high up in the civil service who would need to move with their department are older and settled and more than likely unwilling to move out of Dublin. Their spouses possibly also work but not in the civil service. If you cannot persuade the Dept leaders to move then what hope have you of moving those who work for them?

Sam Russell

Decentralisation cannot be the 'One for every constituency in the land' that Charlie McCreevy introduced.

Decentralisation should be based on four or five regional large cities/towns that can be hubs for Gov business. We already have some of this, and the 'working from home' would make it easier to implement.

It is with this in mind that I suggested that Armagh could be the new capital with just a few Gov offices based there. It would be unnecessary for every, or even any, Ministry to be based there, and it could be the symbol that the UI would in fact be a new beginning for all of the island.

We should be well on the way to solving the various problems like housing, health, infrastructure, by then.

By the way, I doubt that Armagh could ever be agreed to be the new capital, but it would be interesting to hear the arguments about where a new capital should be based.

Podge_irl

Realistically there isn't going to be a new capital. Its going to stay in Dublin.

Though if you wanted to discuss for argument's sake, then I would guess Athlone.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939368#Comment_120939368

It would be interesting to hear arguments or and against such places.

Armagh was not really a serious suggestion because it is too small. It does have the main two Christian churches having their Primate of All Ireland based their - so no other place has that.

The county town of Leitrim is not Leitrim, it is Carrick on Shannon, and part of it is in Co Roscommon.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939075#Comment_120939075

So true. They shouldn't have this power of veto over policy and probably stymied any real dentralisation.

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939368#Comment_120939368

100%. Parliament Buildings on College Green.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940761#Comment_120940761

Belfast would have something to say about that.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940926#Comment_120940926

A good chunk of them aren't bothered about hosting a regional assembly up there as it is.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940979#Comment_120940979

A good point, to be fair.

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940926#Comment_120940926

Why? The last time it was in use as a parliament (1800) it was on an all-Ireland basis.

Additionally Belfast does not have a strong claim to be a capital or a government centre, it’s a relatively new industrial city like Manchester or Glasgow, no real history like Cork or Dublin.

saabsaab

Maybe a rotating capital?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941066#Comment_120941066

There is no way this could work in a modern country. There are apparatus of state that come with being a capital, you can't just continually move them around. Also why bother? This thread is full of suggestions for change without any actual problems being identified or any effort to explain how the changes fix these problems.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941066#Comment_120941066

I can see Cork wanting in on that action.

You'd probably need to get the Riverdance people to organise it.

dublincc2

Armagh is the best option outside Dublin for an all-Ireland capital.

First choice still the College Green buildings though.