Dilemma, I'm struggling

Harryhol

I'm an entry grade in the public sector and struggling financially as well as on a personal level. The department I'm in is huge but I'm largely doing the same job daily which is monotonous. I've heard there may be a freeze on promotion now as well in the administration side which I'm part of. I am over qualified for this job and only took it hoping I would like it and reap the benefits of being in a PS job. I had to leave my previous job as it didn't survive the covid lockdowns and downsized and is now no more. Should I look for a better job, more in line with my qualifications with similar perks or perhaps in another PS sector in the next grade? I'm very disillusioned and disappointed in the sector I'm in and how utterly dysfunctional it is. I don't have the advantage of years before retirement age on my side either so I need to make a decision ASAP. Any advice appreciated.

username2013

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058306683/dilemma-im-struggling

Yes, if you are that unhappy, look for a new job, life is too short. Why does it have to be public sector? I have personally never worked in the PS, but rarely have heard anything good about any department. What you describe above seems fairly typical to me.

raspberrypi67

What section are you qualified in , have you a degree? I've heard about the public sector but I guess a job is better than no job for the moment while

you look for better one.

I was 3 years looking for a job at one stage myself but then I'm in my 50's. Ageism..!! Alive and well in Ireland. Just kept plugging away every Sunday trawling through the SH1t and eventually I was lucky. I wouldn't mind I liked the actual work, just the company was dreadful and so was management.

Keep positive, its easier to get a job if your employed than not. So don't give it up until you find something.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058306683/dilemma-im-struggling

If you have two years service, you can apply for Interdepartmental competitions, and you can also apply for any open competitions that come up as well.

In the interim if you are unhappy in your current department, you can put your name on the mobility list.

I can assure you, not all departments are dysfunctional.

Harryhol

Yeah, everyone there if a certain age are either holding out til they can retire or just completely institutionalised. Being talked to by Management like your a child is difficult, entry grades don't seem to have a choice about anything. I think I'm just too long in the tooth to put up with it.

Harryhol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120902922#Comment_120902922

I'm sure not all are dysfunctional but overall I think the whole organisation is in need of a revamp. Maybe I'm just too old to be treated like a student on work experience being the gofor whenever they snap their fingers or left to my devices otherwise. I'm not there long enough for options unfortunately and don't know if I have the heart to wait it out.

Harryhol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120902902#Comment_120902902

I have more years experience than I have before retirement so yes as you say finding work after a certain age is hard. I guess that's another reason I went the PS route. I guess I have to keep positive and hope for the best but I'm sitting on my hands right now while feeling like rubbish getting up each morning.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903012#Comment_120903012

Maybe you would be better suited happier in the private sector.

Mrs OBumble

Look for a new job.

But that nay be difficult with age.

Alternatively look for a side business you can do, to make more income and hopefully to let you retire early.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903239#Comment_120903239

You genuinely give some of the worst advice ever across a range of topics I've ever seen across Boards. Genuinely. You have no middle ground, it's all scorched earth, last resort stuff immediately from the get-go with you. Always. "Move house.....change job......look for a new girlfriend etc".

No room for nuance, no? I pity anyone who follows your advice.

Wanderer2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903275#Comment_120903275

They dont. Thats why she was booted as a mod on this forum. Ridiculous, narrow minded, blinkered rubbish was her only contribution.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903275#Comment_120903275

People here are adults, it's a good thing that they get advice from a wide range of perspectives, and can choose for themselves what to follow.

And the funniest bit is that you are responding to a post where I did suggest an alternative middle ground as well as the obvious answer, (viz stick with the tedious job, and find a side gig to keep yourself sane).

SortingYouOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120902997#Comment_120902997

entry grades don't seem to have a choice about anything.

That is just how the bureaucratic model works. You're not going to have much influence over the direction of your work or the work itself, all you can really do is do it.

There isn't a promotion freeze either and opportunities are arising regularly.

Entry level is monotonous and some people are fine with that but it sounds like you either need to leave for something more skilled or see yourself promoted, maybe even driving the change you would like to see.

Flinty997

Don't say how long you're in the Public sector.

Transfer to other units until you find one you like better. You might find some you like even less, but some might be better.

AlanG

If you are at entry level in the Public / Civil service you should have no problem moving department if you are in Dublin. They are crying out for staff. If you haven't done 2 years you can still apply via open competitions. In Dublin small offices can be interesting or if you want progression you can go to Revenue who have excellent internal training and opportunities for those willing to work at them.

Otherwise apply for everything at the next level up and invest in some interview training.

It strikes me you mention the PS perks. With the new pension there are few perks for hard workers as most private sector companies offer a far better pension. Job security is a perk depending on your age.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058306683/dilemma-im-struggling

you dont mention how long you have been in the role but I remember when I joined the PS many years ago and it does take time to adjust - new job but also new way of working. The whole different grade thing didnt make any logical sense me to. It does now. I dont think age is relevant - what were the benefits to you that made you take the job in the first place. Everyone is overqualified for entry grade roles by the way :) That the point they are entry grade

What do you mean more in line a job more in line with your qualifications. As mentioned already there are always lots of oppertunities of training and sideways movement aswell as upwards movement.

Is it a permanent role and what perks are you talking about in particular. Besides movement there are other ways to take a break from PS without resigning (career break).

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903275#Comment_120903275

well said. Looney advice

Harryhol

Thank you @gauchesnell I guess I wanted a stable job so job security was a huge thing for me especially as I'm not a spring chicken! I imagined the pension would be great, as it transpires it's not really. I'm not out of my probation period yet but i can see other roles in the department that I'd be better at but as you say its all about grades and not really personal capabilities. Are you still in the PS? My head is all over the place at the moment I'm not sure what to do...or not do!

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904954#Comment_120904954

Im 20 years and counting in the PS unfortunately for new entrants the pension isnt great. Do you think you can finish your probabtion. Maybe make that a short term goal and then start applying for other roles you may be interested in. As already mentioned do training courses do interviews. PS is a huge area and definitely dont be put off by one department.

You actually have goals (the roles in other departments you are interested in) which is great. Get the probation done and then those roles are your target. You seem like you know where you want to work it is just getting there.

Yes it is about grades and that takes time to adjust to. It doesnt suit everyone but probation isnt a time to make that decision imo. There is a lot to be said for a stable job with lots of oppertunities for movement if you are interested regardless of age!!!

My advice - finish your probation. Short term goal.

Harryhol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905043#Comment_120905043

Appreciate your advice and insight , thank you!

trashcan

I’d echo that advice. Huge amount of variation between different Departments and even units within Departments. A lot will depend on your manager. If you really don’t like where you are the I’d suggest looking for a transfer before you take the nuclear option. I’m assuming when you say you’re at entry level that you’re a CO, which can be a role of drudgery, depending on where you are. Can be difficult if you are more experienced I’d say. The other thing is that there are competitions for promotion fairly regularly as far as I know. Both external and internal. You’d stand a decent chance of success I’d imagine.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120902997#Comment_120902997

Age discrimination is sadly whidespread, and that is, even though we live longer and longer and could theoretically work longer. It mainly concerns HR departments but also possible hiring managers. At the same time they will all tell you how "inclusive" they are and how much they care of different ethnic backgrounds or how gay and lesbian affairs matter to them.

And yes, I am at an age, where I am allowed to say that.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918985#Comment_120918985

Have to say I disagree based on my own experience of course and my workplace.

Entry Grades are just that - entry into the public sector The work being assigned is based on the grade not on the individual in the post. As a new starter this can take anyone time to adjust to thats all. I remember that adjustment myself and it takes a while.

The poster seems to be a very motivated individual with a lot of skils and experience to bring to any new role. Age is not relevant. Adjusting to any new role takes time and passing probation will help adjusting to that.

BattleCorp

I joined the HSE almost two years ago at the age of 50. I don't regret it.

As was mentioned earlier, the pension isn't great since 2013 but it's not the worst either.

If you are bored in your job, ask your manager for more tasks. Nothing wrong with doing that. If your manager is any good, they'll help you out. Your work colleagues will look at you like you are mad but it's a good way of getting more experience and keeping interested in the job. And it might be a foot up if you are looking for an internal promotion.

The financial aspect of the role is a little tougher. Entry level jobs are typically poorly paid. Your choice is to stay or go. If you stay, then it's the slow plod along the salary scale. If you decide to go, then it's either somewhere else in the PS or move back to the private sector.

I don't know your personal financial circumstances but I'd be inclined to stay in the PS if I could. I'd bide my time, get more experience and start applying for other positions/promotions in the PS. It's easier to get a job in the PS when you are in the PS than if you are trying to get in from the private sector. The reason I moved from the private sector into the public service is because you are very unlikely to lose your job if there's a recession. I moved for the security and I actually have good working conditions too. It can be chaotic at times, but I come in, do my job and go home knowing that I've helped someone and left it a little bit better than I found it that morning.

If there is a promotion freeze, it won't last that long. Typically they might last 6 months or so. Longer if there's a big recession but we are safe enough there for now. There's a recruitment freeze in the HSE at the moment for management/admin grades but there is still some promotions/recruitment happening, it's just seriously slowed down. It's being reviewed in October so I'll see what happens then.

Best of luck with your decision.

Harryhol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940857#Comment_120940857

Thank you for replying. Are you a CO? If I stay in this grade I think even after year two or three I can see myself still struggling if I'm honest. I'm wondering if I should show interest in moving to a different department or office? Do you think that's a good or bad idea considering I'm still on probation? I just feel a bit deflated I guess financially, physically and mentally I just feel this step backwards financially and skills wise is just far more frustrating and disheartening than I thought it would be. May I asked are you still in the same place since you began? Maybe if I thought there was a chance I would be out of here after probation it would be a small positive. Thanks again

Mrs OBumble

Unfortunately, the pension can be the worst.

I did some modelling for a friend a few years ago: while you're on a starting CO wage, you are contributing very little. But as the salary goes over a threshold (30K I think it was - I didn't keep the exact figures) you have to contribute a higher %-age, as well as continuing to pay standard Class-A PRSI like any other employee.

The problem is that what you actually get from the pension is (the pension from your contributions) MINUS the state pension.

So if you enter later in life, and don't move up to EO or HEO (or their equivalents in other organisations) quickly, you can end up having paid a lot in, but getting next-to-nothing on top of the state pension.

How much of a problem this is depend on exactly how much later in life you enter the scheme, and also whether or not you can move to a grade with a higher scale quickly. The latter can be hard to predict: you may have the skills for the higher grade, the but positions in your area may all be filled with people who aren't planning on leaving.

The advantages of a public job in Ireland are 1) safety from redundancy, and 2) they don't age-discriminate in hiring.

But there are some real disadvantages, including the mind-numbing nature of many jobs, and having to work for people whose world-view is, ahh, limited

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948752#Comment_120948752

Hi. I'm not a CO. And if I'm being honest, while I took a pay cut and gave up my company car to come to the PS, my salary is ok and I'm not under financial pressure so my circumstances are very different to yours.

I'm still in the same department doing the same job. I've applied for two other PS jobs since I've been here, got one interview for one of them but didn't get the job. I'm on a panel so if any vacancies occur in the next year, I have to be considered. That said, I don't hate my job by any means. It's interesting. As will all jobs, there are days where I'm fed up but they are few and far between.

I'm certainly not telling you what to do but I'd try get my probation over and done with before I try move jobs within the PS. It'll look better that way plus you'll have built up a bit of experience by then which might help when you are going for a new job.

Regarding the PS, if you left the PS, would you readily pick up a job that pays a lot more?

Harryhol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949830#Comment_120949830

Thanks for commenting, do you know when you are eligible to apply for internal jobs, for example a grade 4 position that might become available? Is it after the probation period is completed or after 2 years working in your position? I've heard different things from different people. Thanks