Hollywood labour disputes

pixelburp

It's not related to the strikes as such, but this early Hollywood story via an Instagram post popped up, and is a useful reminder that the industry doesn't care about its talent and can / has actively caused harm through its lack of care. It's nowhere near as hazardous as it used to be, but that's because of unions and pressure.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CxoMCo3PCe-/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

johnny_ultimate

The writers strike is officially over as of midnight US time. Great news, and seems like a great deal.

Hollywood is still mostly shutdown until the actors get their deal too, but hopefully at least we’re closer to getting The Bear season three announcement ;)

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/writers-strike-over-wga-votes-end-work-stoppage-1235735512/

Full_Circle_81

I was really hoping that the VFX teams would also have a chance to unionize and hop on board the strike train while the writers and actors were also out, but I've heard hardly anything else about that lately........

It's such an awful cycle they are in right now and it's really no good for anyone apart from the studios. The artists have to make do with awful pay, struggle to meet impossible deadlines and (I'm guessing in a lot of cases) forced to deliver work they aren't really happy with.

Considering how important special effects are now to almost every movie (and even tv shows), it's crazy that they don't have more control of the service they are delivering. But they would *all* need to pull together to effect any real change, rather than constantly undercutting each other to secure gigs with the majors.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163756#Comment_121163756

It's basically a repeat of how video game designers get treated. Highly technical and skilled people but end up being pushed to their general limit and not paid a whole lot for such a skill.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123261#Comment_121123261

Just on this, I'm reading that Drew's 3 head writers have now refused to return to her show completely, thanks to that decision of Drew to be a scab. Whoopsy.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I'm surprised Drew's show has writers. Any clips I've seen it's just her wandering around the audience like a lost child, chatting to anyone who makes eye contact.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196293#Comment_121196293

I'll be truthful in saying I hadn't even known Barrymore had a show before she made herself an scab; yay publicity?

I'm guessing it was some attempt at an Ellen style show; all scripted looseness and girls having a laugh kinda thing?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196388#Comment_121196388

Pretty much. And I think like Ellen, there are interview/chat bits, but also pre-planned bits. Saw an image of her at a desk with Drew's News or something on it so I presume she did some commentary on news items or something.

But all of the above, even probably the wording and flow of questions to get the most out of interviews, uses writers.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196388#Comment_121196388

I think it was supposed to be a bit like Kelly Clarkson's show, which I suppose seems to have taken the Ellen reins (Although Kelly is legit a nice person), but Barrymore's show started taking a weird turn, which I guess is on brand for her, where she's like kneeling in front of a guest, holding their hand while she's interviewing them

pixelburp

The WGA strike is officially over anyway; the new deal was ratified by 99% of the union's members:

https://www.wgacontract2023.org/announcements/2023-mba-ratified

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218940#Comment_121218940

Unfortunately, the actor's strike looks set to roll on as the current negotiations between the AMPTP and SAG-AFTRA have fallen through.

https://www.ign.com/articles/sag-aftra-strike-talks-grind-to-a-halt-as-hollywood-studios-walk-away-from-negotiations?utm_source=facebook,twitter

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227230#Comment_121227230

I think I saw the proposal for revenue streaming was just 2% which the studios refused. Seems like such a trivial number to give the actors - but with all the steamers feeling the squeeze they're obviously trying to hold out.

CastorTroy

Seems they'll be back at the table on Tuesday.

Striking members have been told not to dress up as characters from struck productions for Halloween and they're not allowed to post photos of costumes from those productions either. So if Ryan Reynolds wanted to post a photo of his kid dressed as Deadpool, it's not allowed.

Wonder how strict they'll be. Like if they're at a party and post a photo of themselves dressed as generic zombies but someone in the background is dressed as Batman, will they get blamed?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Dress as actual Halloween appropriate things instead of like they're going to a costume party?! That's crazy talk!

pixelburp

Looks like the studios are still refusing to engage on the overall revenue sharing proposed by the Unions; and they themselves refused the counter offer of more bonuses for popular steaming shows.

Apparently that equated to being "viewed by the equivalent of 20% of the platform’s subscribers within the first 90 days of release". That's a very narrow window and reads a little intentionally geared toward mega-successes and nothing else.

On Tuesday, as the sides gathered for the first time since talks broke down Oct. 11, the CEOs of four major entertainment companies offered SAG-AFTRA an improved bonus for the most-watched streaming shows, as well as higher increases in minimum rates.

But the studios are still not offering a cut of total streaming revenue, which the actors union has made the centerpiece of its demands to end its 104-day strike. Though the two sides continue to negotiate, there remains frustration on both sides that more progress has not been made.

https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/ceos-offer-sag-aftra-improved-terms-1235768337/

Fysh

Hah, given the notoriety of existing Hollywood accounting it's, uh, let's say "naïve" of the streamers to think that "if our data, which we definitely don't selectively interfere with when it suits us and which is not subject to any independent review or audit, shows that Show X has been sufficiently successful we'll deffo give you a bonus" was going to be a welcome alternative to "pay a share of the profits across the board". But then, I reckon part of the issue is that streaming companies have built themselves on a structure where they don't pay any residuals or do revenue sharing, so the old "it's hard to get a person to understand a thing when their job is dependent on them not understanding the thing" effect is probably at play.

pixelburp

For sure: having established an open secret that these streamers constantly juke their own stats, I'm not remotely surprised the Union didn't swallow any proposal that basically put their financial well-being even further in the hands of those incentivised to mess with the figures.

Electric Nitwit

I'm very ignorant of the unions aims here, so this might be a stupid question, but doesn't a percentage of ongoing residuals make it more likely that streamers will ditch older programs to save costs?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285701#Comment_121285701

I'm sure the Studios will do their level best to work around the Unions' demands, there are always loopholes & gotchas etc, but that's why the Actors are sticking to their guns in the first place: to ensure that there's as little wriggle-room as possible for the Streamers et al to screw actors out of their dues.

Conversely, an somewhat anecdotally, old shows like The Office or Supernatural regularly rank high with Netflix's stats so it'll be a toss-up over losing out on a very lucrative revenue angle for them; IIRC Netflix paid crazy money to keep The Office on their service, while the creator of Supernatural said he has never seen a single cent from Netflix for his show's near constant rotation on the service.

CastorTroy

The studios might try for an agreement like "Okay, we'll give you residuals on all shows made from now on but not from existing shows"

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287500#Comment_121287500

Whatever agreement they reach wouldn't cover old content made as per the last contract anyway even outside of streaming.

Agent Coulson

The next 24 hours could be interesting.

https://twitter.com/sagaftra/status/1720924506175475748

~Rebel~

Really don't like that use of confrontational language in a negotiation, trying to play the tough guys. It may well be their best offer thus far, but that's not hard given the laughable terms they've offered until now. If this one isn't accepted word is that all parties will step back until the new year, so I think a lot of brinksmanship going on.

CastorTroy

Yeah, calling it a final offer seems strange. I mean what will they do if they reject it? Just go with non SAG actors for all their productions?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327116#Comment_121327116

Presumably the corporations are hoping that public opinion weakens while the actors themselves, and unions providing for them, simply run out of money - which is a valid possibility.

But I think this is a battle that the executives will lose cos I've seen no real sense the public are getting impatient - or feel the AI threat is exaggerated. We're all feeling that worry.

silverharp

The public dont care about actor strikes or whether AI is used in Hollywood, there is no reason for them to.

pixelburp

Not what I said: AI is a pertinent issue that is or will effect a lot of industries, if it hasn't already. Actors angsting over AI taking their jobs is topical and relatable.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327374#Comment_121327374

its not relatable in the practical sense, as its simply not an industry anyone cares about in that sense. An informed person would know there are limits to AI in film making but to pick an example, an AI aided version of the original Lord of the Rings would just be an upgraded computer tool to that used in the original movies, with no doubt less graphics type people needed.

A relatable industry would be something like Taxi drivers or Truck drivers being replaced, that would be visual and relatable, with a sense of where will it stop.

Something has to give with movie economics, the era of the $250M FX heavy movies is kind of dead, in one form or another less are going or be made and people will need to find new jobs.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327577#Comment_121327577

Being realistic, a hefty chunk of those massive budgets are being syphoned off elsewhere on wages and fees and incredibly inefficient thoughtless use of CG. As we've seen, a huge amount of reshoots and CG work is done late to create alt scenes because the creators weren't clear - or were in conflict - on what the thing should be in the first place. The classic "fix it in post" which is the dumbest way to do anything. Something like 'The Creator' proves how much more efficiently things can be done without limiting production value.

And Ai isn't limited to removing CG folks, it removes some actors too - this being one of the huge SAG talking points obviously. And once you're removing actors, then you're also removing some physical scenes and switching to renders - which means less work for grips, camera crews, crafty, costumers, catering, hair/makeup, art department, and production assistants etc etc etc. Only some of that is possible right now, but it will become a lot more possible before very long, which is the point of striking now to get the protective language in place before we cross the rubicon.

I also think you're not giving the general public enough credit there - everyone understands what strikes mean, and why you do them. What regular human work goes on behind any enterprise. I felt there was generally strong public support for the writers a decade ago, and for the writers and actors this year. The public aren't dumb. Everyone can understand the 'big guy' vs 'little guy' dynamic at play.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330601#Comment_121330601

in previous Hollywood strikes people watched TV so they noticed the schedules thinning out , so the public could see that they were being affected, like any strike where the purpose is too disrupt the public along with the employers. This time around they wouldnt notice the affects so much due to the sheer choice of entertainment, social media etc.

The public will have a theoretical support as in if someone stops them and ask them questions for a poll they will be supportive but there is no energy behind it, throw in on all the political stuff, 2 wars, there is no head space for the likes of Hollywood and its issues.