The government is hoovering up too much housing - the private working taxpayer is hurting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054943#Comment_121054943

People at "home" or couch surfing don't get added in I think

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055628#Comment_121055628

Its tough to read people spouting absolute bollocks and stay calm about it.

Especially when they are the ones criticising others (who are in fact correct).

Basically I don't suffer fools gladly, and I do want to set the record straight.

Please do not confuse aggression with anger, we have every bloody right to be angry.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054943#Comment_121054943

It would be much higher only for so many are leaving.

If you are a young single person with a decent job you have three options.

Rent if you can find somewhere which is not easy and struggle financially and forgot about ever buying a house.

Live at home in your parents house, trying to keep the noise down when your trying to have a sex life.

Move somewhere that will give you the opportunity of living an independent life.

But supposedly everything is great because we are rich.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054782#Comment_121054782

They are absolulely not like the tories and by UK standards are much closer to Labour than they are the Tories.

FG are centre left today.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054680#Comment_121054680

We dont have a centre right party anymore.

The public services are over funded, the welfare state is bloated and ensures that the unemployed are better of than median or even average salaried full time workers in many cases!

College is cheap as far as fees are concerned when compared to the UK because its hugely govt funded.

I am not sure what additional spendimg you think the govt should be making to provide freebees for people, but other than solid investment in housing construction, their policies are distincly left wing.

Read unrestricted immigration., soft on crime, huge social welfare benefits et al.

FG are labour in disguise, they sure as heck aint the Tories.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055672#Comment_121055672

You're viewing Ireland through a political spectrum of The US and you are saying I am wrong?

Ireland is no way "incredibly Left wing" especially in an EU context.

We've copied some left leaning traits from previous UK Labour governments (because of our coalitions, and a reason why a horrid full right/left governement will never get in) but we've never had a left government

At best FF/FG are socially progressive and fiscially conservative, at best.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055947#Comment_121055947

I honestly can't facepalm any harder at this point.

You have US politics on the brain, I do not.

Please feel free to state how our open borders, massive welfare spend and ever increasing public sector and yet more higher taxes (literally overnight in the case of "fuel" and "hospitality") can be described as right wing???

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055847#Comment_121055847

People seem to think our government subscribes to an ideology, it does not. It does what its told from the EU and US, it spends on welfare to get votes from women, it spends on public sector to get more votes from women, and to prevent getting kicked out (health service strikes tend to accelerate minister resignations and a large one would force change the govt.).

They are "left wing" when it comes to taxing private sector workers, and right wing when giving foreign multi national big biz low tax deals and advice.

They are generously left wing when it comes to funding x,y and z for women and extremely right wing for the same for men.

They dont do left and right willy nilly, they do what they do to stay in power.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055699#Comment_121055699

And it's going to haunt the government in upcoming elections. They had their chance to sort this, they promised to sort it, FG in particular have fooled the electorate too many times in a row. And the chickens will come home to roost sadly.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056021#Comment_121056021

You can’t really include tax policy re_ the corporations when categorising our culture here , it’s a bit like our neutrality, all parties have the same position on it ( bar PBP who are never serious government contenders) , SF know not to tamper with the golden goose which is FDI , the parties of the left know that the revenue from Google , Apple , Intel etc is needed to fund the voracious appetite of the public expenditure monster.

just because we have a low corporation tax rate as the basis of our economy doesn’t mean we have an economically right wing political culture, Ireland was once socially conservative without a doubt but ireland has never had an economically right wing culture , rich or poor, Irish people instinctively like big government, we have absolutely no libertarian tradition here

we are an unmistakably left wing country today , progressive left specifically

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055970#Comment_121055970

"Massive welfare spend", compared to who, former eastern bloc countries?

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056095#Comment_121056095

"You can’t really include tax policy re_ the corporations when categorising our culture here"

Tell that to all the SME's (indigeounous Irish businesses) who don't get special deals with Revenue.

"it’s a bit like our neutrality, all parties have the same position"

Yes, we are a vassal state of the US. Shannon airport is decade long proof of that, telling Gardai not to look in the CIA jets, as they are doing a bit of human trafficing and sure if we all pretend like we dont know that, we cant be accused of hleping them. Ireland is complicit also in helping the US basically spying on everyone via the internet too. But hey, call us neutral sure, we are only selling/exporting more arms than ever before. Just not to anyone the US dont want us to.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/irish-military-exports-now-worth-more-than-37m-1.3993361

"we are an unmistakably left wing country today , progressive left specifically"

I agree that the country is, and out govts actions are. what I disagree with is saying they have an ideology. They do not, they are simply doing whatever they need to do to stay in power. If there was one overriding ideology FF and FG had for decades, it was that they'd never ever ever get into a coalition together. Funny how that worked out huh.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056206#Comment_121056206

It is true that FG or FF could flip flop over to a more centre right approach, if they chose to do so.

But what is true today is that they are both centre left and there actually isnt a centre right alternative.

Because there is no centre right, you could argue there is actually no need for FG or FF to change their left leaning position, even if they know that is what the majority of the electorate want to see.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056115#Comment_121056115

Absolute LOL.

In 2020, €58.2 billion was spent on social protection in Ireland, a 20% increase on the 2019 spend of €48.4 billion, now in 2021 that went up again, and ditto for 2022.

Now since those figures are also available why o why did you choose 2019???

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056206#Comment_121056206

The government are unpopular yet you claim they have chosen the current path for political expediency?

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056269#Comment_121056269

Remind me again what was going on in the world in 2020 to cause a 20% increase in social protection spending.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056115#Comment_121056115

Thats the macro view and there are too many other variables.

Ireland has a low retired population and spends less on pensions etc, but look at social welfare benefits for the unemployed or part time staff.

The dole here is double what it is in the UK. Someone in Leitrim gets almost double the payment as someone on the dole in Chelsea.

An unemployed person in Dublin with their apartment rented via the social is having a 2.2k a month property paid for by the state, plus disposable cash of 11.5k a year.

Thats equal to 38k AFTER tax.

So a similar rate of handout cash as somone earning 50k a year, which is more than half of the full time working population earn and more than the average full time income.

Why would you even bother working unless you are on 70k plus?

The benefits listed dont include free public transport, medical cards etc - not to mention free time to do what you like with!

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056256#Comment_121056256

Ah but they are in fact very right wing as soon as you get out of Dublin. Farmers have lots of land, and voting power. Govt lets them away with murder, taking a very "small govt" light regulation right wing approach to who are in fact Irish business owners. Our agricultural industry is the number 1 polluter and yet all the stringent rules other businesses have to follow get chucked out the window for them even when the EU have repeadedly warned us about fines for non compliance.

Its simple: Since Ireland has everyone living in cities and sod all out in the country, they actually have votes that matter. And the govt will happlily pay fines, to keep their votes as its not coming out of their pockets.

Hell farmers literally went to Dublin in tractors, Drove illegally down the M50 blocking all lanes, and the Gardai were instructed to let them do so, and stop anyone who wasnt a farmer for driving past! All while they were slandering Simon Coveney! Now do you understand that the govts actions are of self preservation rather than ideology.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058307844/the-government-is-hoovering-up-too-much-housing-the-private-working-taxpayer-is-hurting

Prices are crazy not sure I would describe 450k as perfect suppose with two people better than one alright but still

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056302#Comment_121056302

Sorry do you think year on year increases in public spending only happened post 2020??? Do you think it was a one off or something??? Let me ask you a VERY simple question, do you think public spending on welfare or in general is going to increase or decrease next year?

Or the year after that?

Or the year after that again?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056319#Comment_121056319

Thats why i agree the govt flip flops between left and right leanings.

Depending on which way the electoral wind is blowing.

Farming is just outright protected in this country though. Left or right leaning govts will protect them because they want the votes.

Only the Greens will actually call the farmers to task. I dont see that changing.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056115#Comment_121056115

Any Irish metric expressed as a percentage of GDP needs to be almost doubled (just over 1.8x from memory) to be in anyway comparable to other countries because of the absurdity of our GDP.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056291#Comment_121056291

This is counter intuitive, but again it involves power not ideology.

For instance, teachers threatenting strikes for more pay before they've even come back from their holiday - govt aquises and throws money at the problem - outcome general public unhappy, but teachers dont strike and all the kids go back to school and their parents can go to work.

Big public sector unions have big power. Unpopular with the public, but the genereal public does not have their power because they are not organised.

Another example, govt pays HUGE money to fight GETTING more taxes from the multinations - Irish people not happy to hear this, a govt that takes their money every which way but wont accept tax from **** APPLE corp? Yes thats the crux, but they stuck to their guns because they knew the people wouldnt resist.

Govt makes lots of unpopular decisions, the difference is which ones will let them get what they want and which ones will get them kicked out.

Many of the most unpopular decisions can be made by Govts once they're past the 2 year mark as then they're all set for life via a massive pension and kick backs from the big biznessess they helped when in office (example Brian Cowan non exec-directorship in an Oil company).

https://www.thejournal.ie/topaz-brian-cowen-1445910-May2014/

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056349#Comment_121056349

 "In 2020, with the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic and introduction of related Government supports, the level of expenditure increased significantly (+18.3% on 2019). The increase in expenditure in 2020 was mainly in the unemployment function (+€5bn on 2019, primarily due to the Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) and the sickness function (+€3bn on 2019 on health related costs). The level of expenditure was similar in 2021 with a year-on-year increase of €1.2 billion"

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-spei/socialprotectionexpenditureinireland2021/mainresults/

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056319#Comment_121056319

SF are every bit as eager to court farmers as FFG

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056395#Comment_121056395

Look at the graph again....GNI

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056399#Comment_121056399

Thats great keep going, you may find our welfare spending is now going to continue to sky rocket to house of all of the refugees.

But of course you can say since its in line with other countries that are doing the same thing, its not that much.

This is why its complete bollocks. If I can't afford to have a house & family because the govt is taking all my money, and using it to house people who literally just arrived in, saying thats OK because other countries are doing it too, is gaslighting.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055699#Comment_121055699

Not eveyone is a man working in the private sector in Dublin.

If you're a woman, you're more likely to be entitled to social housing, can have a family and work part time with additional income provided by the state (as long as your "single" though).

If you're a public sector worker, not only do you earn on average about 30% more than a private sector worker, but you will also get a mortgage easier due to job security and pension security and earning only go up, even if you are "top of scale" and of course all those additional payments and overtime. You are also more likely to be female, and can get promoted easier than men their too due to illegal but still common "positive discrimination"

I think you'll find teachers/Gadai/Nurses outside of Dublin and other main cities have a fantastic quality of life and have zero issues having a roof over their head.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056424#Comment_121056424

Sorry yes. You’d also need to account for our younger population and relatively low level of unemployment (amongst other r things no doubt) to give a fair like with like comparison.

rob316

There should be a state building company setup, I'm tired of saying it. Home building should be classed in the same bracket as health, transport, roads, education. People need somewhere to lay their heads for society to function, it should not be a for profit private enterprise any longer.

That is an ideal world though, instead the government serve international investment funds and developers not the citizens.