2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152721#Comment_121152721

Well I think it is magnifided this year due to Ireland being very strong but having a difficult route to the semi finals while England and Wales are at their weakest in 25 years but both can make the semis without playing a top team. Before the WC started, Ireland were ranked no.1 and would have to play 3 of the next 4 ranked teams to reach the semis. England and Wales were ranked 8th and 10th respectively and would play no higher than the 6th and 7th ranked teams on route to the semis.

I don't think we have a particular dislike of Scotland, more a lack of respect. Respect has to be earned and Scotland hasn't earned ours recently (much like NZ didn't respect us when we couldn't beat them). My impression is that most Irish fans feel a bit sorry for Scotland right now, they are at their strongest in a long time (better than England and Wales) but the WC draw means they most likely will go out at the group stage.

With Wales, maybe it is an over-the-top dislike but I definitely think that is reciprocated. Maybe more so reciprocated by a certain section of Welsh fans who never really bought into their regions and hate the Irish provinces. Wales out-performed us at international level for many years (particularly at WCs) despite both having similar levels of talent available, it's impossible that they out-perform us again this year despite us having much more talent available.

England is a special case. Apart from the historical aspects, they have always been strong in rugby, and they have always known it. They have generally had a lack of respect for the other home nations, fine when they are stronger than the others but they can't expect huge respect from us when we are a lot stronger than them (not that I think that England except more respect from us, they are well aware of the lay of the land currently).

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153217#Comment_121153217

Seems about right but injuries and fatigue will also play a big part, particularly in the semis I think.

pixelburp

By the way I've been meaning to ask: a lot has been said about the draw happening tol early, causing this lopsided breakdown. Has anyone run the theoretical groups that would have come out had the draws taken place later on? Am dead curious where we'd have ended up instead, ditto France and NZ, and would it have resulted in less of an early knockout for the top teams.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153224#Comment_121153224

I think Scotland have serious delusions about themselves TBH. They are bang average and I expect Ireland to beat them comfortably.

Australia are in big trouble. Lions should beat them in 2025 and a home RWC in 2027 could be problematic as other sports are way ahead of them now in popularity stakes. Think this is also bad news for NZ as they don't have the Boks at super rugby level anymore which is a fall off in competitiveness

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153271#Comment_121153271

Scotland may have serious delusions about themselves but they beat both England and Wales in the 6N this year. Scotland are likely going out at the group stage because they had the no.1 and 2 ranked teams in their group, while England and Wales likely reach the semis. Scotland can rightly feel annoyed by that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152721#Comment_121152721

The English thing isn’t really reciprocated either to be honest, most English actually quite like the Irish team, it’s primarily the French, Welsh and Aussies for us (I do get nearly every country has an edge with England regardless).

pickarooney

Seems perfectly set up for a Finn Russell masterclass and a 9 point win for the Scots.

naughtyboy

The scots have to hammer Romania by 80 plus points to be in any chance of overtaking Ireland

They than have to beat us and deny Ireland any bonus points

If the Scots pull this off it will be a great achievement

Jones has to go. He won't jump, be pushed or removed before the final game but it's against such a minnow that there is nothing to be gained. A big win won't be a big deal and anything less compounds the current situation.

A four year run with Japan before a World Cup in America would suit him to be fair. Gets him out of the English / Aussie media machine and he can talk about the World Cup for 4 years and no one will care about current form.

That result last night has to be viewed as rock bottom and Eddie steered Rugby Australia straight into bedrock. There have to be consequences for a pool exit and dire performances and this team is to inexperienced to lump it onto them. I'm fairly certain Jones will be gone. Absolute debacle.

You'd wonder what the English players are making of it all. You got a sense there was split loyalties towards Jones in the camp but as things have unfolded loyalty to Jones looks quite foolish.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153232#Comment_121153232

I cant find it now but im pretty certain there were a couple of posts on r/rugbyunion with different theoretical draws

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153433#Comment_121153433

They only have to beat Ireland and deny them a bonus point. That will leave Ireland and Scotland tied in 2nd place on 14, and it goes to the winner between them.

The for and against only matters if it goes to a 3 way tie, which is still possible.

In reality, it doesn't matter because Ireland will beat Scotland.

AndyBoBandy

Not sure if it was posted anywhere yet, but I came across this video on Twitter yesterday and it’s just beautiful.

We are ALL this guy…… What a moment, what a memory…..

https://x.com/irishdaily_/status/1705935302047453292?s=46&t=oDtWal0bd4EVRHG4lzZF_A

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153433#Comment_121153433

Pretty sure as long as they get the BP against Romania they just have to beat us 4-0 with an 8+ points gap. Same points difference and head to head in their favour, no?

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153433#Comment_121153433

They need to get 4TBP vs Romania then beat you with no Irish BP or beat Ireland with 4TBP and avoid Ireland getting 4TBP and losing BP.

i think. But stand to be corrected.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153807#Comment_121153807

This all seems like a scenario that would have unions welcoming a 24 team tournament, despite those here lamenting the idea: cos presumably, to make up the 4 more needed for a round of 16 you'd pull the best 3rd placed teams across the 6 groups (assuming my math isn't wrong); so Scotland's last game suddenly has way more at stake if you got 6 3rd placed teams no longer playing dead rubbers (automatic qualifying for the next WC notwithstanding). Those last round of games more exciting cos a bonus point could push you up the 3rd place rankings.

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153439#Comment_121153439

I thought Aussie went pretty well last November considering all the injuries. I was at Stade de France when France required a defensive lapse to win in the dying moments. I thought take this squad, get back the injured players and add some of the overseas players like Skelton and Aussie will be a force.

jones bought in a whole new coaching panel of leaguies I think. Nothing against league background (Andy Farrell anyone…) but don’t think you can only use them.

people rejoicing a bit but don’t think rugby is in a good place if the RWC becomes the 5N + SA +\- NZ. Needs all teams to be competitive.

rugby could well die in Australia. Lions tour could be a joke etc. Does anyone really want that?

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153838#Comment_121153838

Rugby Union barely gets a look in from the Aussie media. It is so far behind NRL, AFL and cricket over there. The soccer A-League is rising in popularity. They have the tennis in Melbourne every year.

Wallabies haven't won a Bledisloe since early 2000s. Their club teams don't feature often at the business end of Super Rugby.

Melbourne recently pulled out of hosting the commonwealth games...let's hope the ARU don't get bad ideas after this shambles of a tournament and pull the plug on hosting RWC27.

terrarev

Basically, they need to beat Ireland gaining 4 clear points in the table.

It could happen but it would be completely against anything that has happened between the teams in a long time.

Wailin

https://youtu.be/PitUx_ciDhs?si=V4i1TL8mDykEa1LD

Gregor Townsend starting the mind games already.

supernova5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152454#Comment_121152454

here, here I know we need as many teams as possibly at the top end but in a certain way I find myself quite enjoying the Aussies getting pummelled and falling off a cliff, if it lowers their ego a bit to allow some modesty set in it can only be a good thing

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154064#Comment_121154064

As mentioned rugby has minimal following in Australia. I was working in Australia in 2006. There was a bledisloe test on between nz and Aussie. Arriving at work on Monday no one talked about it. And there was a one sentence report buried in the sports pages with the result. It was just league everywhere (NSW).

NB: good luck getting Aussies to be modest.

NB2: New South Wales. I think what I wrote is safe for work…

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153838#Comment_121153838

It's only sport, you need to take things less seriously mate 😉

A Lions tour of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga would be as competitive and novel.

SaoPaulo41

As Australia are hosting next world cup , and taking that Australia will finish 3rd in group, does that mean either Portugal and Georgia will automatically qualify if they finish 4th ?

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154161#Comment_121154161

It doesn't change anything. If they finished 1st or 2nd in the group they'd still be hosting the next world cup.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153942#Comment_121153942

If the mindgames are 'I'm going to show everyone how deflated I am about our chances'.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154064#Comment_121154064

Different generation of Aussie players. Honestly I'm concerned about rugby in general, England and Wales in the NH and Aus in the SH particularly. It's not good to see the state of the regions, the English premiership in slow collapse and Aus crashing out of the World Cup. This isn't England in 2015 with a strong Wales and Australia, this is Fiji and a generationally weak Wales absolutely hammering Australia. This is awful stuff.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154082#Comment_121154082

Yeah rugby Australia needs to a rethink from ground up. It's fixable but not without serious people taking the reigns and if it doesn't happen soon then things like the Lions could be in jeopardy in the future. If Australia don't turn things around and get back to being competitive the likes of a Lions tour won't be justified anymore.

Hard to watch. Pretty much confirms the Japan story - but a lot of hostile questions outside of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs08xUodhuE&ab_channel=RugbyPass

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154179#Comment_121154179

I know that but in this case as Aus will finish 3rd does that mean 4th place teams get automatic qualification for next wc? As top 3 teams in each group qualify for next tournament

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154246#Comment_121154246

As I'll hold my hands up as an ignoramus of English rugby, what's the upshot of this? I've seen a few rumblings that English rugby is in a bad spot: is it just a shítty generation of players, or something institutional that's gonna get worse without solutions? I'm guessing the latter by the dire portents - so what's the nub of it then?

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154373#Comment_121154373

Wouldn't be well versed on English rugby myself but an interesting podcast by David McWilliams on the subject is worth a listen.

He describes strategic planning where the IRFC has done well but how England has damaged it's rugby partly through privatisation. Talks about it around 29mins in. Aplogies if someone has already posted the link.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4OSx6wsLdTEb6UMv8im2eu