2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245018#Comment_121245018

Which is funny, as Ireland knows better than nearly anyone else... there are no easy games against NZ.

moycullen14

The whole group phase is really an ar*e. Of the 8 teams that got to the QF, 6 have now lost one match, Fiji have lost two and England are unbeaten. All the losses have been to other teams in the 8.

If there was some way to organise it, it would be great to have the 8 teams that made the QF in 2 groups of 4, based on current world rankings. The groups would play out and the top two in each group go forward to a semi-final/final.

The premature draw has really screwed some teams. Not only have you harder opposition but you are exhausted for future matches (this is where in RWC differs from the soccer equivalent).

Maybe you'll never get a completely fair system but with this world cup they may as well have just drawn the QF out of a hat and let them off.

McFly85

I honestly don’t know anyone who thought that NZ was a foregone conclusion. Everyone was incredibly nervous and thought it was a tight game but we definitely had a chance. If anyone genuinely thought NZ posed no threat then they haven’t a breeze about rugby.

I did see a lot of “the worst NZ team in 30 years” posts alright, but these seem to be from people determined to stick the boot into the Ireland team and label them as bottlers.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245532#Comment_121245532

Every pundit I listened to was saying 'Ireland can win, but...'

You are right, nobody thought it was going to be a walkover.

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244825#Comment_121244825

Thanks, we are going to need it if we get to the final against New Zealand. Wont be the same game as pre-world cup Twickenham, thats for sure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244848#Comment_121244848

Just on this, and im not replying to you as such, I have done a bit of analysis this morning, only on Ireland and SA, because they were in the same pool playing the same opponents, and its the 2 teams I have an interest in.

The lack of depth have cost Ireland dearly. Coaches have no faith in the back up players. There are 10 players in the Ireland team who started each of the 5 games, with a further 5 players who played in each of the 5 games, either starting or off the bench. Thats 15 players who played each of the 5 games. Not to mention, 2 of those players (Aki and Keenan) played all 400 minutes. That is insane. There are also a further 4 players who averaged over 50 minutes per game each, 3 players with over 60 minutes average per game, and another 4 players with over 70 minutes per game average. And they were still performing at high levels until about the 60 minute mark against NZ, then you could tell it started getting to them.

Looking at the time played for each of your players across the 5 games, it is a testament to their talents/skills/spirit to have got within 5 points of a semi final, against a New Zealand team who were playing very well.

But it is also a failure of the coaches/system. They could have rested some of the players against the likes of Tonga and Romania. It is an absolute gut punch for the second string players to not even get a start against those teams, for coaches not to have faith in you to win even those games. And those are the players you have going forward, tough building to be done, to get the players to trust the coaches after not being trusted themselves.

Couldnt find a back up team to the current team, now you have to find a replacement first team and a back up team too. Tough times ahead I think, but I am happy to be proven wrong.

In contrast, I looked at the SA player stats thus far.

There is not a single player who started each of the 5 games. There are only 2 players who played in each of the 5 games (Kitshoff and Nche), either starting or from the bench. Kriel was selected for all 5 games, but 1 of those he wasnt used off the bench, so only played 4 games.

Only 2 players in the whole squad have played on average over 50 minutes average per game (Kriel and Willemse), if I average it across the whole 5 game tournament, not the games each player actually played.

Yes, Ireland do have a much smaller player base/talent pool to choose from, but each team brought 33 players to the tournament (fair enough we used 34 with Pollard, not used Am yet), and you need to rely on each of those 33 players. Maybe not all equally, but more equally than Ireland have done in this tournament.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245532#Comment_121245532

And wait for it. If SA win the WC, our win over them was a nothing. Shur, SA didn’t bother to try..Twas only a “silly” group match

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245591#Comment_121245591

This is the worst part for me, with Ireland losing. We wont have a chance to beat them. So even if we win the WC, we wont be able to say we beat all the top teams on the way to the WC.

We beat NZ recently, France, Scotland, hopefully England next (and we did less than a year ago), Italy, Wales, Australia, Argentina, just Ireland we havent beaten recently (last 12-18 months). Wouldve been an epic final.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245654#Comment_121245654

Bottlers! 😁

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245532#Comment_121245532

I was actually leaning towards the weakest NZ team in years thing, but after about 15-20 mins of the game, I realised it was nonsense and I had seriously underestimated them. They played pretty much like all the top class All Black teams of the past.

hahashake

They are definitely not at the level of the peak years of Carter/McCaw but I think many seriously underrate their current crop of players.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245923#Comment_121245923

Even a less than “great” AB team will still be an absolute handful for Ireland..they’re born to play rugby. It’s their GAA

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245654#Comment_121245654

To be fair, SA lost to NZ at the 2019 RWC, and had only beaten them once in their previous 9 meetings. I don't think it bothered any Boks supporter in the slightest!

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246056#Comment_121246056

I was thinking that while typing it, very similar to previous world cup. And no, wouldnt really bother me this time either, just wouldve been nice to tick all the boxes.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245923#Comment_121245923

They have the best half back pairing in the tournament maybe the best ever.

Ardie Savea is an incredible player, Jordie and Beauden Barrett are fantastic players and Will Young is a force too. They have a very decent second row and their front row got a lot of stick coming into the tournament but they've done pretty well.

pickarooney

Has a coach ever won a world cup after being fired? I'd be kind of happy for Foster if NZ won. More than I would be for Rassnaber anyway. Cheika doing it would be hilarious, as would Borthwick.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245060#Comment_121245060

Except of course for Barnes when it came to the NZ lineout that created the Will Jordan try.

The only one in the game that he made a fuss about not closing the gap. It's the inconsistency that is frustrating

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246465#Comment_121246465

Will Young - the cricketer or the singer? 😂

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246651#Comment_121246651

🤣

I've no idea how I did that.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246629#Comment_121246629

The gap was an issue, but the biggest issue with the last 7/8 games is that teams are reading out lineout like a book. How many times vs. NZ and SA did they have a jumper in the air right next to ours and going up and the same time? We couldn't throw them off the scent.

It was also a poor decision to throw to the back on our 1st lineout. We were deep in the NZ 22 and no doubt had a set play lined up but given how poor we had been all tournament in the lineout maybe a ball to 2, a drive and then execute a set play would have been the better option. That just compounded the error of not kicking for goal from that penalty.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121243606#Comment_121243606

Do you think Irish fans betting on their team might have influenced those odds? You know that the sole influence on the odds is the profit margin for the companies? That's it.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244102#Comment_121244102

You can't even get your sources right. Rob Kearney said it not Horgan. And it was an estimate that he came up with not a mathematical equation.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245179#Comment_121245179

It could be within a score for about 20 minutes on a good day, sorry but those tactics of dragging the opposition down wont work at this level against opposition like SA. Their style of rugby deserved to go no further than the QF but thanks to the draw they've made it a step further. Idk if its a good thing or bad thing though, does it give English rugby a moral boost or does it just continue to paper over cracks? It just doesnt feel right looking at the great work France and Ireland have done how they are out and England are still here stinking the place out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247968#Comment_121247968

Congrats on the win and best wishes! Improving all the time.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248599#Comment_121248599

I hope you're right !

Jacovs

The SA team selection will be interesting for the semi final against England.

Up to now there were 2 distinct teams.

Team 1 played first game (vs Scotland), third game (vs Ireland), fifth game (vs France).

Team 2 played second game (vs Romania) and fourth game (vs Tonga).

If they want to keep the rotation going then team 2 should be playing this weekend, sixth game (vs England), which would leave Team 1 rested for the final the following week.

But, have to get past England first, and I am not sure if Team 2 will be able for it. Which would mean playing Team 1 again this weekend, and definitely the weekend in the final too, which would have them playing 3 tough games in a row.

I am guessing it will be a hybrid of the 2 teams.

Here goes my guess at the team for SA vs England (with rotation in mind for the final):

1. Nche (subbed off between 40-50 minutes)
2. Fourie (subbed off between 50-60 minutes)
3. Koch (subbed off between 50-60 minutes)
4. Kleyn
5. Orie (subbed off between 50-60 minutes)
6. Kolisi (subbed off between 50-60 minutes)
7. Smith
8. Wiese
9. Reinach (subbed off between 50-60 minutes)
10. Pollard (subbed off between 50-60 minutes)
11. Mapimpi
12. Esterhuizen
13. Moodie (subbed off between 50-60 minutes)
14. Williams
15. Le Roux
16. Mbonambi (on for Fourie, Fourie could move to 6 to replace Kolisi, which frees up van Staden to replace either Smith or Wiese)
17. Kitshoff (on for Nche)
18. Nyakane (on for Koch)
19. Snyman (on for Orie)
20. van Staden (on for Kolisi, or Smith or Wiese)
21. de Klerk (on for Reinach)
22. Libbok (on for Pollard)
23. Kriel (on for Moodie, or Moodie moves to wing, with Willemse moving to Full back and Le Roux going off)

Nearly the same team that started against Tonga in the 4th game. Just a few tweaks. Risky though.

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249368#Comment_121249368

Mapimpi is in SA!van staden to start Williams to start at 9

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249905#Comment_121249905

Forgot he took a hit against Tonga, thanks. Suppose they could start Am on 13, Moodie on 11.

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250058#Comment_121250058

100% they will start am,it’s the only chance to see where he is at before a final.moodie on the wing and Williams at 9.the bench will be stacked tho as a plan B depending on how England play

ersatz

Looking a the performance NZ put in against us Im sure it was their best outing for years and it will be very difficult to replicate. Last WC they did a number on us and then flopped against England the week after. Jammy b*stards have a very ordinary Argentinian team to deal with next week which they should be capable of handling, though Arg will have nothing to lose and might be die a performance after some stuff went well for them abasing Wales..

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248599#Comment_121248599

I've been saying this for a couple of weeks now.

England qualifying early meant a rest week for their squad. They are fresher than anybody left in this World Cup.

That levels the playing field a lot especially against a team coming off a brutal, physical encounter last Sunday.