Price gouging by the pub, restaurant & hotel industry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100816#Comment_121100816

I’m sorry I don’t understand.

nachouser

Phxbistro.com on the quays is a lovely spot. 20 min walk to O'Connell St.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100765#Comment_121100765

This is the opposite to what you said earlier in post 736 with your "What are you on about? Restaurants survive on repeat business and any of them gunning for the tourists are going to fail. It's that simple".

Right now I can drive 5 minutes and have a choice of 9 different places to sit down and eat, they'll all be busy and the prices are certainly not geared towards repeat local custom. In a couple of months I'll have a choice of 2 places to sit down and eat and they'll be dam glad to see me come in the door.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100831#Comment_121100831

I know you don’t.

How do commercial costs become non existent just because the doors are closed?

Do you not think rent/mortgages have to be paid, commercial rates would still have to be paid, the property insured, heating on during the winter, maintenance costs, do you think services are cut off etc? All those costs, while there is no money coming in actually makes it the opposite of what you think it is, the owner has significant outgoings with absolutely no income.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100903#Comment_121100903

Esb standing charges don't stop

Broadband still costs money each month

Intruder alarm, CCTV and fire alarm must be paid each month.

Credit card machine rental every month.

Bank charges each month.

What's clear on this thread is there are an awful lot of people who have no concept of what the costs of businesses really are yet they are cheerleading for people to "vote with their feet" then wishing and hoping that these businesses end up closing down.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101062#Comment_121101062

People will vote with their feet do you think businesses are the only entity struggling with costs. The fact is going out for a few pints and / or having a nice meal out is a luxury and unfortunately when money gets tight and that is happening for a very large % of the population - luxuries are the first thing to be cut down on or cut out completely.

jj880

Are there really posts in this thread hoping restaurants close down?

Most customers understand bills / costs are through the roof. I think a lot of whats posted in this thread is in jest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101094#Comment_121101094

I was out over the weekend Friday night for rugby, Saturday evening for family event, there was no sign of slacking in the pubs/restaurants. The money seems to be there.

There has always been churn in the hospitality trade, over the years I have seen many pubs and restaurants close, it just seems to be the way in that sector.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101062#Comment_121101062

There are clearly posters here who live very sheltered lives. They clearly do not understand that for many businesses, it's a case that it's only ever as good as it's last customer, whilst costs keep clocking up and increasing over time.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101174#Comment_121101174

Great well then hopefully they wont be lobbying government to lower the VAT rate again? Well there will always be closures but the amount of closures in 2022 was up from 2021 and in 2023 its up again over 2022 so if that pattern keeps going what will happen?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100903#Comment_121100903

I’m aware that of course there is ongoing costs (I’m not sure what maintenance you think a restaurant will need when not used for 3 or 6 months in a year) but yeah of course rent and rates, ESB (very little cost there if the place is closed), water & gas (same again) so really the costs are hardly significant.

In any case a good business owner will plan for this. Myself if I opened a restaurant where I only had guests in during the summer months I would structure everything with a view to saving money for the winter and paying for what I need when I’m closed.

If you seriously think the cost of keeping the business going when it’s closed for an extended period is significant you are misinformed. Staff wages (incl tax and prsi) produce, breakages (plates, glasses etc), cleaning supplies and the staff to do the cleaning among others all cease when the restaurants closed.

Those alone amounts to 10’s of thousands a week. So my point was more that a closed restaurant generates a lot less costs to the owner than when it’s open. If you disagree with that then okay, fair enough. I have plenty of experience in costs for running a restaurant kitchen at least and it’s a part of my current role where I’m working at the min.

I’ll tell you another thing too if you feel restaurants menus are taken piss charging what they do for food and drinks you should have a look at the invoices I studied when trying to reduce costs… shocking isn’t the word. Most places are running margins so thin it’s incredible they even walk away with a wage.

tayto lover

Nearly 13 euro for a white loaf, a brown loaf and 3 sausage rolls in my local bakery in Dundalk?? Everything rising like hell except wages.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101341#Comment_121101341

You have no concept of running a business.

Banks/Landlords, county councils, service providers, insurers, utility companies etc, do not care whether you chose to operate 6 months or 12 months a year, they still want their money.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101368#Comment_121101368

You should be shopping in Aldi. Clearly the local artisan bakery is not suited to your segment of the market.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101447#Comment_121101447

Wasn't there in ages and it will be longer before I go there again.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101382#Comment_121101382

How much money does the ESB charge when electricity isn’t being used?

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101062#Comment_121101062

So just because it costs money to run a businness people should be jist happy to pay extortionate prices?

The only bill of any imapct to a businness there is esb. The rest are tiny.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101530#Comment_121101530

No, people who can't afford it can walk on. Plenty can afford these services and are happy to pay it.

Alarm monitoring would be higher than ESB standing charge. Shows how little you know.

You also ignore rates and insurance monthly cost. These being the big ones.

Again you show how little you know, it's what all the bills come to combined that matters, not cherry picking ones you think is miniscule.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101530#Comment_121101530

You could always show everyone how it can be done differently.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101558#Comment_121101558

I know more than you mate. I know the prices are off the charts and im not going to pay it regaardless of what outgoings these places have. Maybe if they told us what their profit margins were we might feel a bit sorry for them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101477#Comment_121101477

Surely that is based on consumption?

Why are you picking that charge instead of rent/mortgage/rates/insurance/heating etc?

Look, I don’t blame you for not knowing that significant costs still apply when businesses aren’t open for trade, some might think that businesses which aren’t open on Sunday get a free day from all their payments. But in reality, that is not the case.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101577#Comment_121101577

Walk on then. These businesses aren't really interested in your custom anyway.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101584#Comment_121101584

He's picking the ESB standing charge to deflect from not knowing that rates and insurance are the big two. You'd be lucky to get them for less than 1000 a month.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101368#Comment_121101368

They are worse than supermarket prices in formerly exorbitantly expensive countries.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101756#Comment_121101756

Local pub tried to cancel insurance during covid, was told he'd be reclassified as a new customer when reopening n thus a higher risk profile, so a higher premium.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101584#Comment_121101584

Okay, I think maybe we’ve misunderstood each other

I am not trying to say (I’m aware I misspoke) that all costs cease when the door closes for the weekend on your local shop

but what I’m trying to explain is in restaurants where the business model is summer and tourism and then closing up (or even running only weekends) outside the season the costs to the business drop dramatically.

Like if you’re spending, say, €10,000 a week on buying in produce, veg, meats, milk etc then when you stop trading you stop ordering that.

Your staff if you hire seasonally don’t get wages anymore that cost stops.

So if you’re running a restaurant that only opens for summer trade you will calculate what you need to cover the bills in winter (standing charges, insurance, rent, rates, etc)

however, the whole system comes asunder when you alienate the locals and the tourism this summer wasn’t great, but ran properly you can definitely get away with catering to tourists, well in theory anyway.

That’s all I was trying to get at

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102452#Comment_121102452

You still do not understand how a business works, I am not misunderstanding what you are posting.

When you buy produce and sell at a profit, your costs are coved by income. When you close for the winter, significant costs remain, and no income is generated to cover those costs, so significant costs become significant loses. It is nonsense to say costs become non existent just because businesses are closed for the winter.

You keep going on about electricity, staff, produce, those costs can fluctuate depending on trading, but costs like mortgage/rent/rates/insurance/heating during winter, they remain due even if the place remains locked up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102510#Comment_121102510

Yes, I am aware they are still due? I never intended to say the costs stop existing, what I am saying is the costs can be covered if you plan your spending and profit intake & projections accordingly.

So if I need €15k to run in the summer every month for example & I need €5k to cover the bills when I’m closed in the winter, I then have to take at least €20k to stop myself getting in debt.

In seaside towns and popular holidays spots I can think of a few places that operate exactly that way. They make a fortune in the summer months and are comfortably paying their bills both business and home, some even still paying their staff, without a bother.

as I said I misspoke by saying the costs go away but when planned out correctly a quality food business in a busy town in the summer can easily close for the winter & sustain on almost entirely tourist trade in summer.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102552#Comment_121102552

So basically, in hindsight, you meant to say the exact opposite of what you actually said in post 736?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101270#Comment_121101270

Many businesses, particularly those front facing the customer in tourism and food/ hospitality etc are keenly aware of and wary of price increases. Nobody wants to overprice them themselves and lose business to others. Business owners are also ordinary consumers in their private lives and aware of increasing costs. Most businesses in these sectors understand that value for money and personal recommendation from customers is what keeps sales up. So the first port of call is to see if rising costs can be controlled and absorbed without passing onto the customer. This works for a while and then becomes unsustainable and there has to be a price increase.

The value of the VAT reduction was that some of these rising production costs could be absorbed, as keeping retail prices the same, the extra margin helped to pay rising costs.

When the VAT went back up, that's it. There's no way to absorb the extra 4.5% tax, it has to go onto you, me .. the consumer.

That's what I can't get about the narrative that was being spun by politicians and economic commentators, that the VAT had to rise..to punish greedy restaurateurs etc. Whereas in fact it was a straight tax increase on the public - on you!, just like they raised excise duties on motor fuels. When inflation figures come in, the public need to be asking HARD questions since a good proportion of rising costs are driven by state policy inc the increase in VAT.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101736#Comment_121101736

This is the attitude of many ordinary pubs/restaurants/hotels. Some places deserve to suffer if they think of a customer like this

fplfan12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102552#Comment_121102552

Can you not accept you don’t know what you’re talking about ?

Just because you think something it does not make it real.

You have been shown the correct way to consider these issues but are digging your heels in for some strange reason.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102699#Comment_121102699

Yet if the government changed tack and announced a VAT cut in the morning you and others would most likely just pocket it and the public would be no better off.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102714#Comment_121102714

Agreed. Any business rejecting custom deserves to die.

L1011

Actually had my first case of "what the feck" at the till over the weekend - wrap and a drink in Pret in Connolly, €10.

Won't be doing that again.

Sono

Whatever about if places are gouging or not, will the prices ever come down? I think we all know the answer to that. Places are creaming it during these times, not all but a lot of places are taking the piss but people are still paying it so more the fool them (me!)

nachouser

The average profit margin for restaurants would appear to be about 4%. Google is your friend.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103269#Comment_121103269

No they won't and that's the problem with all this shit. You have businesses and their useful idiots banging on about "the market this and the market that" and yet, the prices stay up when they go up, in general. They don't come down despite downward changes in fuel costs etc.

But the price rises have also been more serious in recent times. Take the price of the pint for instance, a great way to judge things if you ask me. It's been raised in, frankly, huge amounts since well before Covid. Whereas around the nineties and noughties you'd get an increase of a penny or two. Or perhaps five pence. These days you're talking 50 cent or more casually slapped onto it and then a few months later another 20 cent.

I've had cousins over from America and England in the last month and, fuck me, if the bills everywhere we went weren't eye watering.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103295#Comment_121103295

Pubs in Dublin are still generally very busy. Plenty of people happy to pay 7 for a pint and I do it myself.

There wont be any price drops because people are paying the prices. Its just the new norm.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103323#Comment_121103323

Just because they're paying it doesn't mean they're "happy" about it.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103344#Comment_121103344

True enough. But if they are paying it night after night...who cares?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103354#Comment_121103354

That's a hiding to nothing. There will come a point where most people will stop.

Everyone has their limit.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103360#Comment_121103360

True.

But we havent reached it yet. Otherwise the crowds would have fallen away and they really havent.

Sono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103295#Comment_121103295

Yeah I agree with you Tony, prices are high and is the new norm and if you want the luxury of a few pints or a meal out you’ll pay handsomely for it.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103360#Comment_121103360

No people won't stop. Plenty of people can still afford to eat and drink out without being bothered about the price. The hospitality sector is focused on the premium end of the market these days.

No point worrying about the moaners who can't afford it. They are not their customer base anyway.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103543#Comment_121103543

But most are bothered about the price, plenty of well off people are bothered. Yes they pay it now but it means if they get a better alternative they would likely take that option.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103691#Comment_121103691

Hardly. Personally if I'm out I'm not bothered if a pint is €5.50, €€5.80 or €6.20.

If I'm at an event and it's €7 I'm not bothered either.

Plenty of people out there with the money and limited establishments.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103839#Comment_121103839

As long as the hospitality sector is based around your personal circumstances it should be fine so.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102699#Comment_121102699

Well since covid businesses seem to be happy to gouge joe public all they like. This sentiment seems to stem from everyone was loaded by staying at home. Its carried on ever since.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103323#Comment_121103323

Less and less in the pubs in my area. Food always comes before drink and people won't pay ridiculous prices for both. Something has to give and it will be the drink.