Price gouging by the pub, restaurant & hotel industry

Rows Grower · 12-09-2023 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100765#Comment_121100765

This is the opposite to what you said earlier in post 736 with your "What are you on about? Restaurants survive on repeat business and any of them gunning for the tourists are going to fail. It's that simple".

Right now I can drive 5 minutes and have a choice of 9 different places to sit down and eat, they'll all be busy and the prices are certainly not geared towards repeat local custom. In a couple of months I'll have a choice of 2 places to sit down and eat and they'll be dam glad to see me come in the door.

12-09-2023 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100831#Comment_121100831

I know you don’t.

How do commercial costs become non existent just because the doors are closed?

Do you not think rent/mortgages have to be paid, commercial rates would still have to be paid, the property insured, heating on during the winter, maintenance costs, do you think services are cut off etc? All those costs, while there is no money coming in actually makes it the opposite of what you think it is, the owner has significant outgoings with absolutely no income.

waterwelly · 12-09-2023 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100903#Comment_121100903

Esb standing charges don't stop

Broadband still costs money each month

Intruder alarm, CCTV and fire alarm must be paid each month.

Credit card machine rental every month.

Bank charges each month.

What's clear on this thread is there are an awful lot of people who have no concept of what the costs of businesses really are yet they are cheerleading for people to "vote with their feet" then wishing and hoping that these businesses end up closing down.

fliball123 · 12-09-2023 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101062#Comment_121101062

People will vote with their feet do you think businesses are the only entity struggling with costs. The fact is going out for a few pints and / or having a nice meal out is a luxury and unfortunately when money gets tight and that is happening for a very large % of the population - luxuries are the first thing to be cut down on or cut out completely.

jj880 · 12-09-2023 2:25pm

Are there really posts in this thread hoping restaurants close down?

Most customers understand bills / costs are through the roof. I think a lot of whats posted in this thread is in jest.

12-09-2023 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101094#Comment_121101094

I was out over the weekend Friday night for rugby, Saturday evening for family event, there was no sign of slacking in the pubs/restaurants. The money seems to be there.

There has always been churn in the hospitality trade, over the years I have seen many pubs and restaurants close, it just seems to be the way in that sector.

Furze99 · 12-09-2023 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101062#Comment_121101062

There are clearly posters here who live very sheltered lives. They clearly do not understand that for many businesses, it's a case that it's only ever as good as it's last customer, whilst costs keep clocking up and increasing over time.

fliball123 · 12-09-2023 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101174#Comment_121101174

Great well then hopefully they wont be lobbying government to lower the VAT rate again? Well there will always be closures but the amount of closures in 2022 was up from 2021 and in 2023 its up again over 2022 so if that pattern keeps going what will happen?

12-09-2023 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100903#Comment_121100903

I’m aware that of course there is ongoing costs (I’m not sure what maintenance you think a restaurant will need when not used for 3 or 6 months in a year) but yeah of course rent and rates, ESB (very little cost there if the place is closed), water & gas (same again) so really the costs are hardly significant.

In any case a good business owner will plan for this. Myself if I opened a restaurant where I only had guests in during the summer months I would structure everything with a view to saving money for the winter and paying for what I need when I’m closed.

If you seriously think the cost of keeping the business going when it’s closed for an extended period is significant you are misinformed. Staff wages (incl tax and prsi) produce, breakages (plates, glasses etc), cleaning supplies and the staff to do the cleaning among others all cease when the restaurants closed.

Those alone amounts to 10’s of thousands a week. So my point was more that a closed restaurant generates a lot less costs to the owner than when it’s open. If you disagree with that then okay, fair enough. I have plenty of experience in costs for running a restaurant kitchen at least and it’s a part of my current role where I’m working at the min.

I’ll tell you another thing too if you feel restaurants menus are taken piss charging what they do for food and drinks you should have a look at the invoices I studied when trying to reduce costs… shocking isn’t the word. Most places are running margins so thin it’s incredible they even walk away with a wage.

tayto lover · 12-09-2023 2:56pm

Nearly 13 euro for a white loaf, a brown loaf and 3 sausage rolls in my local bakery in Dundalk?? Everything rising like hell except wages.

12-09-2023 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101341#Comment_121101341

You have no concept of running a business.

Banks/Landlords, county councils, service providers, insurers, utility companies etc, do not care whether you chose to operate 6 months or 12 months a year, they still want their money.

waterwelly · 12-09-2023 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101368#Comment_121101368

You should be shopping in Aldi. Clearly the local artisan bakery is not suited to your segment of the market.

tayto lover · 12-09-2023 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101447#Comment_121101447

Wasn't there in ages and it will be longer before I go there again.

12-09-2023 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101382#Comment_121101382

How much money does the ESB charge when electricity isn’t being used?

Gusser09 · 12-09-2023 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101062#Comment_121101062

So just because it costs money to run a businness people should be jist happy to pay extortionate prices?

The only bill of any imapct to a businness there is esb. The rest are tiny.

waterwelly · 12-09-2023 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101530#Comment_121101530

No, people who can't afford it can walk on. Plenty can afford these services and are happy to pay it.

Alarm monitoring would be higher than ESB standing charge. Shows how little you know.

You also ignore rates and insurance monthly cost. These being the big ones.

Again you show how little you know, it's what all the bills come to combined that matters, not cherry picking ones you think is miniscule.

silliussoddius · 12-09-2023 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101530#Comment_121101530

You could always show everyone how it can be done differently.

Gusser09 · 12-09-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101558#Comment_121101558

I know more than you mate. I know the prices are off the charts and im not going to pay it regaardless of what outgoings these places have. Maybe if they told us what their profit margins were we might feel a bit sorry for them.

12-09-2023 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101477#Comment_121101477

Surely that is based on consumption?

Why are you picking that charge instead of rent/mortgage/rates/insurance/heating etc?

Look, I don’t blame you for not knowing that significant costs still apply when businesses aren’t open for trade, some might think that businesses which aren’t open on Sunday get a free day from all their payments. But in reality, that is not the case.

waterwelly · 12-09-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101577#Comment_121101577

Walk on then. These businesses aren't really interested in your custom anyway.

waterwelly · 12-09-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101584#Comment_121101584

He's picking the ESB standing charge to deflect from not knowing that rates and insurance are the big two. You'd be lucky to get them for less than 1000 a month.

12-09-2023 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101368#Comment_121101368

They are worse than supermarket prices in formerly exorbitantly expensive countries.

enricoh · 12-09-2023 6:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101756#Comment_121101756

Local pub tried to cancel insurance during covid, was told he'd be reclassified as a new customer when reopening n thus a higher risk profile, so a higher premium.

12-09-2023 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101584#Comment_121101584

Okay, I think maybe we’ve misunderstood each other

I am not trying to say (I’m aware I misspoke) that all costs cease when the door closes for the weekend on your local shop

but what I’m trying to explain is in restaurants where the business model is summer and tourism and then closing up (or even running only weekends) outside the season the costs to the business drop dramatically.

Like if you’re spending, say, €10,000 a week on buying in produce, veg, meats, milk etc then when you stop trading you stop ordering that.

Your staff if you hire seasonally don’t get wages anymore that cost stops.

So if you’re running a restaurant that only opens for summer trade you will calculate what you need to cover the bills in winter (standing charges, insurance, rent, rates, etc)

however, the whole system comes asunder when you alienate the locals and the tourism this summer wasn’t great, but ran properly you can definitely get away with catering to tourists, well in theory anyway.

That’s all I was trying to get at

12-09-2023 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102452#Comment_121102452

You still do not understand how a business works, I am not misunderstanding what you are posting.

When you buy produce and sell at a profit, your costs are coved by income. When you close for the winter, significant costs remain, and no income is generated to cover those costs, so significant costs become significant loses. It is nonsense to say costs become non existent just because businesses are closed for the winter.

You keep going on about electricity, staff, produce, those costs can fluctuate depending on trading, but costs like mortgage/rent/rates/insurance/heating during winter, they remain due even if the place remains locked up.

12-09-2023 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102510#Comment_121102510

Yes, I am aware they are still due? I never intended to say the costs stop existing, what I am saying is the costs can be covered if you plan your spending and profit intake & projections accordingly.

So if I need €15k to run in the summer every month for example & I need €5k to cover the bills when I’m closed in the winter, I then have to take at least €20k to stop myself getting in debt.

In seaside towns and popular holidays spots I can think of a few places that operate exactly that way. They make a fortune in the summer months and are comfortably paying their bills both business and home, some even still paying their staff, without a bother.

as I said I misspoke by saying the costs go away but when planned out correctly a quality food business in a busy town in the summer can easily close for the winter & sustain on almost entirely tourist trade in summer.

Rows Grower · 12-09-2023 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102552#Comment_121102552

So basically, in hindsight, you meant to say the exact opposite of what you actually said in post 736?

Furze99 · 12-09-2023 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101270#Comment_121101270

Many businesses, particularly those front facing the customer in tourism and food/ hospitality etc are keenly aware of and wary of price increases. Nobody wants to overprice them themselves and lose business to others. Business owners are also ordinary consumers in their private lives and aware of increasing costs. Most businesses in these sectors understand that value for money and personal recommendation from customers is what keeps sales up. So the first port of call is to see if rising costs can be controlled and absorbed without passing onto the customer. This works for a while and then becomes unsustainable and there has to be a price increase.

The value of the VAT reduction was that some of these rising production costs could be absorbed, as keeping retail prices the same, the extra margin helped to pay rising costs.

When the VAT went back up, that's it. There's no way to absorb the extra 4.5% tax, it has to go onto you, me .. the consumer.

That's what I can't get about the narrative that was being spun by politicians and economic commentators, that the VAT had to rise..to punish greedy restaurateurs etc. Whereas in fact it was a straight tax increase on the public - on you!, just like they raised excise duties on motor fuels. When inflation figures come in, the public need to be asking HARD questions since a good proportion of rising costs are driven by state policy inc the increase in VAT.