The dairy boom.Can we officially say its over

tesla_newbie

I live in rural Ireland and read this farming forum now and again, a good few folks including myself are allergic to cows milk , I end up coughing and wheezing if I eat dairy, I use hazelnut milk as I hate the other alternatives , oat milk isn’t an option as I’m also gluten intolerant

plenty go for vegan milk to be trendy clowns but it’s necessary for some

fulldnod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979299#Comment_120979299

Do u have have to explain the difference between liquid and milk

straight

I'd say the boom passed us by around here in the home of dairying. All we see is numbers of dairy farmers declining steadily over the years. Down to one dairy farmer per townland now in general. The odd lunatic then gets cows in his brain and fills the void of about 10 smaller farmers that have packed in due to being forced out through lack of profitability. They can't get enough land, cows, hardship but think they are superheroes. I'd say this year and possibly next year will see the demise of alot of these lads but the 30 to 50 cow man has been forced out and is not there now to fill the milk tanks anymore.

It's always possible to set up a dairy farm but you have to eat the elephant in small bites and ask yourself is it worth it or is it what you will be happy at. Fairly easy for the small guys like me to tighten our belt on a year like this but not so for the dairy heroes.

I have 80 cows now and you would be just looked down upon and told you are the new 30 cow man and all that rubbish. Sure god love us.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980660#Comment_120980660

You are not alone 😀

I posted this image on Twitter a few weeks back (apologies if I posted it here too) and this is the link to the Agriland article: https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/average-dairy-and-suckler-herd-sizes-for-2022-revealed/

Over half of all dairy farmers have between 25 and 100 cows (8,820)

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980921#Comment_120980921

What land base are you working off if considering going milking, if you were to milk 60 cows you might have to rent additional land with new regs.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980956#Comment_120980956

I'd have 75 acres (30 HA) and I just checked the figures again with the IFAC calculator: https://www.ifac.ie/news-insights/news/ifac-launches-nitrates-banding-calculator

Please pick holes in the following coz I'm half blind (and probably too optimistic) from doing sums on it now 😀

Assuming I'd have mostly 1st and 2nd calves, then I'd be in the lower band of under 4,500 for the first 2 years (maybe longer?). All heifers/cows would be bred to an AA bull for those first few years and all calves would be sold at 4 weeks. It's another cost but I'd buy a few replacements on point of calving or just calved. After that I'd see which of my own would be worth breeding replacements off.

With no calves or maiden heifers, 60 cows at 80kgN means total kgN is 4,800 and across 30HA that's 160kg. So, whatever else might go wrong (and I'm sure there'd be plenty) for the first two years, I'd be OK on nitrates.

Where the pressure would come is from then on. If the cows go up into the middle band, I'd hit 177kg. And that's before I think about keeping 10-15 replacements around the place. I'd need to rent 15 acres to drop back below 170kg again. I wouldn't rule out derogation, assuming 220kg will still be available in 2025, but it's not plan-A at this stage.

Anyway, it's all pie-in-the-sky at the moment and I'm just tipping away trying to get some experience in different parlours and tease out the various sums.

On a related note: I spoke to a local man this morning who does drawings for yards and buildings. He's flat out and couldn't get to me until Oct he said, but he said to work away if I find someone else in the meantime. So, if anyone could recommend someone in the south-east of the country I'd be all ears. Thanks.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120981615#Comment_120981615

What a cow type would you be going for? Tbh if you implemented the system you’ve outlined there even if milking all heifers I’d be very surprised if you stayed in the lower band as you should have plenty grass infront of the cows at that stocking rate…I’d be running the figures on the middle banding. That would have you closer to 50 than 60 cows on the land base staying out of derogation.

Your system would be a very simple one however and would aid to a great lifestyle milked for a man previously milking 200 cows in a flying herd style setup after breeding most days were 6 hour work days, plenty time for family and other interests.

roosterman71

Isn't it a joke that ya'd be struggling to stay within limits with 60 middling cows on 75 acres

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120981763#Comment_120981763

Can't believe I left out the most important bit - the cow herself!

I bought 20 Holstein-British Friesian calves back in Feb. Varying degrees of each breed in them. You can tell already which are more stocky and which have more Holstein in them.

If I don't go milking, I'll sell them as in-calf heifers in Oct/Nov 2024.

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120981615#Comment_120981615

Tbh a flying herd wouldn't be a bad route at all, biggest risk would be tb breakdown really, as replacements brought in while locked up wouldn't be covered by comp if they went down and possibly getting stuck with calves. Main reason I haven't considered it more myself. Would make life simple, calves gone not long after calving finished, breeding next focus after that just manage grass and cows.

50 cows in the middle band would be about it for 30ha not in dero which would be comfortable enough, up to 70 if up to 220/ ha. If seriously considering it getting soil fertility and reseeding up to date prior to cows landing would be important too

If buying in getting a few cows, 2nd plus lactation would help a new herd settle in parlour and cashflow of higher yield over heifers would be important starting out. Also replacement rate in first year may be higher due to stress etc. Dealing with a herd of heifers can be tough in the parlour, that's what we found when restocked anyway.

I'd say have a look around some local farms re facilities and layout if you can. Some of the lads doing the drawings can be fine and all but sometimes they seem to think we can all re build from scratch with bottomless pockets and their suggestions can reflect that. Local builders might have suggestions too from things they've seen.

whelan2

The lad who's building my parlour also built my cubicle shed 4 years ago. At that time he hadn't done a milking parlour at all. He has since done 4 and he's learnt a lot from them.

fulldnod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980660#Comment_120980660

Is that what government/ dept are at,trying to get rid of farmers, if a retirement scheme opens it will over subscribed

Coolcormack1979

Gdt down 7% today.next spring will be interesting to say the least.won’t be too many heifers selling for over 2,000€ plus

3 the square

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120982554#Comment_120982554

country is ripe with tb uk as well, as well as the export market heifers might not be too far behind last year

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979161#Comment_120979161

No it's not its completely true. And proven its a lot to do with the way there grown and conditions there grown in

80sDiesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120982745#Comment_120982745

Cheers didn’t know that channel.

ifarm WeFarm on youtube.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120982745#Comment_120982745

If it’s Adrian from IFarmWeFarm then he had a great video on building his parlour last week: https://youtu.be/QcsrkP2Nw_s

I’ve already taken notes and dimensions from that video 😀

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980660#Comment_120980660

What has you so bitter about what other lads do ?

if you’ve no interest in it just ignore it.

We’re milking just short of 170 and I’d milk more if I could. The more we milk the better our farm has become. Our place is unrecognisable to what it was when I came home just over 10 years ago. Delighted I did go head long into it because if I hadn’t it would make zero sense to be going into it now with the current environment if I had of fucked off 10 years and lived the life

If you’ve no interest in milking any more that’s fine but others might just want more for various reasons that aren’t applicable to you

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983146#Comment_120983146

Just an opinion lad, relax. I'm in expansion mode actually. I have land and facilities for 100 in the top band so I will head in that direction.

You say you have 170 but half of them are belong to daddy. So you have 85 each.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120982723#Comment_120982723

The good ones won’t be ….lot of very variable scans done and lots still to be done on herds that ran short breeding season and used a lot of sexed semen with variable results

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983173#Comment_120983173

I didn’t say “I” though. I said “we’re”

very well aware it’s a collective effort

cowman10

When your mom and dad are no longer able to work. Will you still be as positive about milking more?

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983602#Comment_120983602

neither of my parents milk any more

I did majority of it up till this year outside of few nights away, holidays etc. have a neighbour milking 3 evenings a week every week this year and plan to keep that going

dad does a good bit of tractor work and mam does a few errands when she’s about her day to day things. My wife works full time in a busy job with a global company and we’ve 3 young kids who are very keen for the outdoor life

but no definitely couldn’t no see myself being disheartened with what we’re at. My parents may well be around and still involved but the weight is firmly on my shoulders and it’s up to me to do the heavy lifting at this stage.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983683#Comment_120983683

Fair play to you and best of luck.

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980021#Comment_120980021

if its a substitute for milk, its going to hit & displace milk sales.

so explain away.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983683#Comment_120983683

What's the longest period in the last 5 years you've had to run the farm on your own without any other labour in the busy periods spring/summer, your really underestimating how vital your ole chap is to the everyday running of your farm, learnt the hard way here anything over 100 cows without the equivalent of a full-time labour unit plus yourself your only fooling yourself thinking you can do it all long-term

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983996#Comment_120983996

I did do 100% of the milking, I dry off every cow. I scrape and lime the cubicles every morning before milking, dad scrapes them in evening when milking or when dry, I do all the feeding, I push it in 9 times out of 10, i look after all calving, feed every calf that’s on a teat, dad will look after the auto feeder. I do all fert and most of the slurry. Had no help in the parlour training 35-40 heifers the last couple years. I set up all the grass breaks, dad would take the odd one down

we have all young stock contract reared from 4 months old to 20 months old. That is a big help

I know what it’s like to look after numbers. I know we’ll what’s involved and I know full well my folks do lots of other stuff outside of what major things I’ve listed there but a lot of stuff they do can be done a bit more efficiently but atm they like doing the bits they do and they can keep doing them as long as they’re willing and able

older by the day

Back to the topic. If I was starting milking and building. I would be saving in the good times. Relief milking maybe and building or some job that is tearing the ass out of things currently and wait for a recession. They always come.

In the naughties I worked a job and the farm and in 2010 on I did my buildings. 100 euro per day cash to the tradesmen. Now is a very expensive time to be expanding or starting. Every van that calls to the yard is taking a couple of thousand these days.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120984227#Comment_120984227

Your right there. We were building a parlour in 2008 and the quotes were crazy. We were going to go for a second hand machine. The plasterers quote would make your eyes water. I think the price of the machine dropped by almost 10k before we did the deal. Same when I built my house in 2013. It was alot easier talk to fellas.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120984718#Comment_120984718

In a similar vein, the drawings man I spoke to yesterday said people are now looking to re-use existing buildings more than a few years ago.

Back then, concrete and steel prices meant building on a green field site didn't seem too expensive and was easier than trying to upgrade existing buildings. But the price increase since then means existing buildings are worth more now than they were back in 2016-2020.