Tattoos and the Gardai

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976521#Comment_120976521

I wonder will the Garda who have visible Tattoos now also be in bother?

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976622#Comment_120976622

Maybe ‘an Garda Siochana’ would be willing to cover/contribute to ‘laser tat’ removal given the large % of the youth who now possess them.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976521#Comment_120976521

Fair cop! 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976622#Comment_120976622

https://youtu.be/GhKy5xHYoMI

suvigirl

For God sake, such a fuss about nothing.

Plenty of Gardai have tattoos, there just not supposed to be visible.

If the 3 lads want to stay in the job, they will do something about their tattoos, if the tattoos are too important to them, then they won't be back to templemore.

There are lots of rules in AGS, that's the job. It's not difficult to have non visible tats

apache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976743#Comment_120976743

Ah will you stop. The cost and mess of that.

I have tattoos from when I was a teenager. Started getting them removed about 20 years ago. I tried all that stuff. It's not practical.

Bluefoam

It's not difficult to have non visible tats

But to ask someone to expose their body somewhere that is easily covered up, and then tell them they have to remove tattoos from that area... It's a bit OTT

I used to know lots of air crew with really strict Muslim uniform policies... Management would even inspect the colour of lipstick and the type of watch staff were wearing... But plenty of crew had loads of tattoos which were never a problem, once they didn't come below the cuff or over the collar.

Gardaí could easily have a similar policy.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976835#Comment_120976835

They do?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976832#Comment_120976832

I know what you mean, I’m just demonstrating it can be done. Looks shìt to be fair, but y’know, possible at least… somewhat 😂

I know - we don’t all have professional makeup artists on standby, but for smaller areas rather than the whole body, I’m sure anyone could manage it.

apache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976877#Comment_120976877

The results would not be good and it would rub up against and stain every surface it came in contact with. It's just a nightmare.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976843#Comment_120976843

Not sure what exactly you're questioning here, but yeh... Plenty of crew have loads of tattoos, one friend has full sleeve right, half sleeve left with some other tattoos on lower arm, leg sleeve and chest as well as some other random tattoos on his back etc... A pal of mine, Abdulah was on a working flight to Singapore once and came back two days later with the most amazing intricate sleeve I've ever seen. Once they are just above the sleeve they are no problem.

It's funny, in conservative Muslim Middle East, people are often more more accepting of your personal body choices... There was a Lebanese salesguy working for a major design firm who had a bald head and a tattoo that came up his neck and the back of his head... He carried it off well by dressing very sharp and he a Pepsi Rolex that was like his signature... No one ever batted an eye... the reason is that in bedouin culture, people are very hospitable and accepting of others, because living in the desert, you weren't sure when you'd see another person (back in the day)... We seem to have lost that here, particularly in this case.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977125#Comment_120977125

Sorry, dunno why there was a question mark! I meant they do have a similar policy

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976034#Comment_120976034

No, the point is that the decision on what is the desired and acceptable standard is made by the employer, not the tattoo bearing applicant complaining that it's not fair/irrelevant/whatever!

You're (in this context I mean any employee rather than anyone here) there to do a job and in doing so representing your employer in the way they want to be seen and expect. You don't have to agree with it, but if you want to work for them you have to accept it.

If you don't, or you feel it's a trivial nonsensical rule, or an infringement on your right to do whatever you want to your own body, or any other similar objection, then that's fine - but go find an alternative employer who will not have those requirements.

As I said previously, the world does not revolve around you or your worldview and crying about it being unfair or irrelevant is more an expression of your own immaturity and entitlement than any sort of defence.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977418#Comment_120977418

I'm fine with employers doing this but it's a pretty foolish move in the scheme of things. By omitting candidates on such a silly basis, that's a pretty good way to miss out on the best candidates. I say this as somebody who does plenty of interviewing. I get that this may matter moreso for public facing roles so I can get neck tattoos for example being an issue but within reason, I don't see an issue.

You're being needlessly aggressive btw and how you're responding to posters isn't exactly mature.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977418#Comment_120977418

But, the've gone through a rigorous employment process, have turned up for their fist day of work, but then been sent home after the fact... If these standards are so important, they should have been communicated thouroughly and effectively prior to posititions being filled. Theres also a case of double standards, as there are already plenty of Guards on the force with lower arm tattoos...

Bluefoam

 the world does not revolve around you or your worldview

@_Kaiser_ you don't see the hypocrisy in you own statement?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977597#Comment_120977597

You must surely have an ideal candidate down on paper before you start interviewing candidates though? Similarly, AGS have their ideas of ideal candidates down on paper before they do any interviews, their criteria are available online for anyone to review.

The best candidates are the candidates who most closely match the criteria you’re looking for. Tattoos wouldn’t bother me personally in the slightest, and I don’t think there’s any reason to assume anyone is missing out on the best candidates if the candidates they’re interviewing don’t match the criteria they’re looking for.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977597#Comment_120977597

I'm annoyed because the only counterargument seems to be basically "what harm is it doing" or "what difference does it make" etc.

It's the employer's decision and right to set whatever standards or requirements they want and it's up to the employee to decide if they still want to work for them under those conditions.

But complaining about tattoos not being accepted is just more of the same trend of "I'm an individual. Validate me! " guff that really has no place in the workplace.

You're there to do a job in way your employer wants it done. If that includes rules on appearance then that's just how it is. If someone isn't happy with that , don't apply or look elsewhere.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977659#Comment_120977659

There's no hypocrisy. My view or the perspective of the potential employee on tattoos is ultimately irrelevant.

The employer makes the rules. If you don't like them you go elsewhere.

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977710#Comment_120977710

Didn't the Gardai change policies about allowing Beards a few years ago? I'm 98% sure beards weren't allowed up to a few years ago.

Are you of the belief that a dress code should never change or something?

My name is URL

There was some old woman on the radio earlier talking about how bad it is that a wannabe Garda would get a tattoo. Said all of her adult kids are in teaching and medicine and it wouldn't happen.

I had to laugh... 2 of the most wild professions to study in college. If only the clueless auld **** had any idea of what goes on

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977710#Comment_120977710

The employer makes the rules. If you don't like them you go elsewhere.

And the alternative to that is to seek to challenge the rules in order to change them. That’s not “validate me” or whatever your issue is, it’s challenging a rule which prohibits people with the same issues from gaining employment. Granted, discriminating against people with tattoos isn’t unlawful, but that’s not to say it could be in the future. There were plenty of rules which existed in the not too distant past where employers were permitted to discriminate against candidates for a whole host of other reasons which are now unlawful, precisely because rather than go elsewhere, people challenged the justification for the rules and the rules were changed.

i don’t agree with these policies in general because I do have tattoos

that said I also knew about them and the potential affects it may have on future employment when I got the tattoos & I went down a career path where no one cares.

I think if you get tattoos, with prospects of being a garda, then you’re not very smart at all.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977648#Comment_120977648

Sure they can have lower arm tatoos, that's not forbidden. They must not be visible. That's not difficult stuff.

My name is URL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977816#Comment_120977816

Isn't it great that a discussion is now being had about it then?

BrianD3

As can be seen here, people get defensive about tattoos. How many people who got a tattoo at age 20 would get the same tattoo (or any tattoo) at age 40. Most people I know who got tattoos at a young age admit to having regrets now. Like some other behaviours (e.g. taking up smoking in your teens) getting a tattoo may show poor impulse control and forward planning.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/behavioral-sense/202110/are-people-who-get-tattoos-really-more-reckless-and-impulsive

Also, you ARE being judged by others on your appearance, all the time even if people are not aware that they're doing it, Lack of tattoos is something that distinguishes the civil power from the military and private security. The distinction is important and there are sound reasons why AGS has strict rules on uniforms and appearance.

Also, as already stated, if you do allow visible tattoos how do you determine what is appropriate or not, where is the line drawn. Allowing appropriate tattoos is going to result in people who are "too cool for school" crying and bitching about how their "body art" was deemed inappropriate while someone else's was deemed ok. Management get involved and there are appeals and resources are wasted, a policy on what is appropriate is produced. Then some smartarse get a tattoo that falls outside of the policy and nobody can say if it is ok or not. Easiest solution is to just ban them outright - unless so many people have tattoos that the bans starts to affect recruitment.

Fieldsman

Are tattoos not described as the 'stamp of a tramp' Why would people spend hard earned money on something that looks like graffiti. Do people not get compensated huge sums of money if they get disfigured in an accident or in a fire.

Beefcake82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977710#Comment_120977710

Tattoos do not determine is someone is a narcissist, gang member, criminal or any other description you wish to use. It is grand if you or others don't like them and don't want them, however there are those that do appreciate them.

Personally if a potential employer wanted me to cover up/remove tattoos, i would not want to work there as i feel that is controlling. It is fine if they have that rule for whatever reason that they want, however employer's could be letting potentially right candidates in every other way go because their rules especially in a job market where employees have a choice.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977819#Comment_120977819

Another one who either didn't read the article, or didn't understand the article...

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978572#Comment_120978572

Ahh fairness, the articles a bit confusing in any case, like yeah there’s the headline, and then there’s this in the article itself:

It’s understood the tattoos were mostly on lower arms of the trainee gardai, and would have been visible to members of the public if the officers were wearing short-sleeve uniform shirts.

Management had been in ongoing discussions with the officers about how they could continue training if they promised to have the tattoos removed, but we have established that late last week the decision was made to suspend their training.

The officers were told to leave the training course – but also that they could come back to another intake if and when they had dealt with their tattoos.

That’s why I suggested they hadn’t thought of makeup - would have disguised the tattoos and nobody would have noticed their tattoos!

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120972104#Comment_120972104

The sarcasm clearly went over your head.