Ire versus England - RTÉ 2 Saturday Aug 19th 17.30pm

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003683#Comment_121003683

Ireland haven't lost for 12 months ;)

And again talking about anything but the current Irish team, further proving that you agree that there aren't any flaws in this current side. That's what proves Ireland are the best, even Ireland detractors cant find a flaw.

Shehal

I am actually super shocked that @TRC10 has the most pessimistic take possible after yesterdays result. I thought he was going to be super chippy and positive as that's more like him :/

noc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003157#Comment_121003157

NZ thrashed Argentina 41-12 and SA thrashed Australia 43-12 in their opening games. I would call that hitting the ground running. Farrell was clearly frustrated in his post match interviews yesterday and for good reason, we should have crushed that dreadful England team.

Podge_irl

We most likely would have crushed them had our line-out not completely fallen apart. 8 missed throws would normally mean a solid defeat not a 19 point win. Its one main thing to sort out.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003683#Comment_121003683

Your argument is that past results guarantee the same future results.

They don’t.

As evidenced by the large number of things Ireland have done for the first time in the last number of years.

Hopefully it’ll include winning a QF this year.

Cateym

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003683#Comment_121003683

This rhetoric is getting very tiresome. Every match thread or post on Instagram or Facebook over the past 18 months on an Irish match is flooded with SA supporters spewing the above horsesh*t. You'd actually think Irish fans are going around saying we're going to win this year, anything but. Those that are, are generally about thirteen years old and have no recollection of the pain and suffering of previous world cups.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003809#Comment_121003809

But our lineout did completely fall apart. That should be massive cause for concern this close to the World Cup.

Neil3030

Or a coach, former lock, with known attention to detail, did a number on our lineout.

Chapeau, sir.

Not the end of the world, we'll figure it out.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004243#Comment_121004243

Ah I'm sure Farrell and POC are telling the lads not to worry, it'll be fine.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004243#Comment_121004243

POC sorted lineout issues pretty quickly when he joined the coaching team in 2021.

Would you back him to do it again? I would.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004195#Comment_121004195

And the ironic part is the sh*t they are angry about Irish fans for doing is the sort of things SA fan's were doing themselves this time 4 years ago, not nice when the shoe is on the other foot though is it.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003768#Comment_121003768

Right!!!!

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004243#Comment_121004243

So what? Who won?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004243#Comment_121004243

No it shouldn't. If it happens again it would be concern but you are , frankly, being hysterical.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003672#Comment_121003672

The first 15 of SA looked far, far, far worse in the first game they played in the RC. What team talk did Rassie give them? Despite targeting the NZ game by sending players over early they we're absolutely steamrolled. The opposition isn't an excuse as most of their players forgot the basics of rugby and even that they had hands for large portions of the match.

If Ireland looked as bad yesterday as SA did in that game I'd be worried, but they didn't come close to it.

noc1980

The 3rd test in NZ is the best I've ever seen us play but let's not forget that NZ clawed their way back in to that game and it took some heroic defending from the likes of Tadhg Beirne to seal that victory. Now the question I ask is have NZ improved since? I would say yes, immeasurably. Have we improved / evolved since? I don't think so.

Will it matter? Maybe not, worse teams than Ireland in its current state have reached RWC finals but they didn't have the nightmare draw we have. We have to be better than we've ever been to navigate our way to the semi final, never mind win the tournament.

Maybe it will all click but I'm not buying this 'holding back' talk at all. Name one RWC where we unleashed hidden moves? It's never happened. The body of evidence this year is troubling, 2 sloppy warm ups, looked figured out and rattled in the final 6n game, sloppy in the Italy 6n game, good against France and a woeful Wales, decent against Scotland. I don't think it's negative to say if we show up at the RWC up and down like that we're going home early.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004931#Comment_121004931

Some good points here. I think it's maybe instructive that our best performance in the 6N was France, one that was sign posted as the key match and one that psychologically the team were likely the most psyched for and felt was the most decisive. They delivered but there was a lack of consistency in that tournament that left some doubts about the WC. Not that they payed badly or anything like it, they won all their games very convincingly. Yet France absolutely crucified a poor English team while we got into an arm wrestle with them, same with Italy who were good but Ireland played at the level they needed to rather than the level they are capable of. And maybe that is a characteristic of this team. The ABs can put 50 points on good teams they get on top of in the first half, same with France. Ireland and SA not so much.

I am very confident that we can beat SA and as numerous people have pointed out, SA are doing what England do but with better execution, skill and confidence. That doesn't scare this Irish team. Against France and NZ over the last few encounters I think we've seen more of the potential of the team. Against very strong sides who are capable of scintillating creative play on the break Ireland's balance of defense and attack is ideal, we aren't a flair team like they are but we are a very creative team who can make almost every opportunity count, we might give up some scores from nowhere but mostly we force these types of teams into a fairly structured game that does limit the risk of their preferred styles of play. So yes, NZ are probably significantly improved from the team we faced during the series, but even with that I think Ireland have a game that can do damage to them while limiting their opportunities. Are Ireland much improved since then, maybe not by a lot but I think they will come into the competition with bags of confidence and faith in their game that was reinforced by the trip to NZ and the slam.

All_in_Flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004931#Comment_121004931

Lets look at that another way. We dominated NZ over the course of three tests. There was a fair gap between the two sides. Has it closed since? Maybe, but it's hard to tell and I wouldn't say immeasurably. NZ certainly looked to have found a better balance with Barrett at 12 and they have looked more accurate come breakdown time but there are caveats to that too. The southern hemisphere is at it's lowest ebb in quite some time. South Africa looked distinctly average and Australia are a mess. Argentina are a Jekyll and Hyde team.

I cannot understand the criticism from some regarding the England and Italy games. These are preseason games folks, and were the first games for the players. Genuinely, were you expecting timing of passes, runs and lineout throws etc. to be at a very high level? Show me another team sport where that is expected? It's a bewildering stance. The biggest takeaway from those 2 games for me is that we have looked really well physically.

I'd also argue you and others are reading way too much into this 'holding back' talk. Nobody is suggesting we are holding an arsenal of super secret strike plays. What is most definitely true though is that we would not be showing all of the different attacking pods etc. I think that's fair enough to say.

If I'm being honest about our chances in the world cup, I feel we are in a really strong position. I think we are ahead of France and if it wasn't a home world cup I'd be fairly sure we'd beat them. I'm not 100% sure on NZ but at worst I think it's a 50/50 game with them. I fancy us strongly against everyone else. Maybe I'm wrong about how good we are but I think our CV over the last year is considerably better than anyone else's. It's a very exciting time for Irish rugby. It's time now to find out if we are good enough.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004931#Comment_121004931

Those “sloppy, figured out, rattled, sloppy again, good and decent” performances in the last 7 games you speak of lead to victories by 24, 13, 14, 15, 13, 16 and 19 points.

Imagine what might happen if we do click.

Look, I absolutely understand a level of tentativeness when it comes to Ireland in the RWC. But imo, this strays into negativity which just seems divorced from the reality of what this team has delivered.

We may still go out at the QF stage. But at a minimum, I’d expect this team to do so firing a few shots of their own.

Buer

Decent performance overall. Some definitely inaccuracies in the first half and England made life hard on us with their linespeed and aggression. Despite the gap in form and current performances, England still always make life difficult on us and we struggle with their style including the last two 6N games when the final scoreline suggested a far more comfortable win than it was.

Our discpline again was patchy, particularly in the first half although the referee was very hot on the whistle to the point of pedantry.

Our back three is sublime. Any one of the three could have been in contention for MOTM but the cross field kick probably nudged Hansen in front. Keenan is a dream of a full back. One uncharacteristic kick out on the full aside, he was safe as houses and carried back with a little bite and awareness. Hansen was excellent in his general play and made a couple of great reads. Lowe was similar and his kicking was superb. In general, our back three kicking was great. It says a lot about how we approach things when our back three have more kicks than our halfbacks. Compare that to England where 22 of their 26 kicks came via Ford or Youngs. Predictable and once our backs were dealing with those kicks, they had nothing in attack.

Midfield was tidy. Aki threw a couple of dodgy passes early on but recovered well to have a decent game. Supported well for the try and good spot for the pass for Earls' try. Ringrose was busy. Took his try well and linked up well with those around him. Think he was carrying a knock for a lot of the game. He was down in a bit of pain before his try which is why he was out on the wing to begin with. Then went to ground immediately after making a hit on his own line where his shoulder looked in trouble. I don't see him playing again until Tonga.

Halfbacks were fine. Nothing really more. JGP was relatively quiet. No stand out moments either good or bad which is unusual for him as he normally has something in both columns. Byrne struggled a little bit in the first half with the English linespeed and his pack were having similar issues. We were getting a lot of man and ball in the back line off slow ball but Byrne's style doesn't help in that regard when he's relatively static. He grew into it though. The passes for the tries were nice but he should be nailing those. His biggest contribution by far was defensively where he was making very solid hits on people. It was his dump tackle, stopping Daly dead, that led to the turnover and kick from Ryan which ultimately ended with the Hansen try. He'll be disappointed with the goal kicking even if they were tricky kicks. We're probably still none the wiser as to who will be in the 22 jersey as Crowley was very quiet in his 22 minutes although I'd lean towards Crowley. But I'd also be telling Crowley he has to mind the ball more.

Back row was good after a quiet opening spell. VDF in particular was mediocre in the first half before bursting into life after the break with a number of strong carries. His pass straight to Ford (bailed out by Keenan) was very poor but showed lovely hands to put POM away for the Aki try. POM himself was tidy. A solid blindside performance in the knowledge that he's about to turn 34 and has some big weeks ahead. He was deployed in the Jack Conan wide channel role which he can perform at but we get more from him elsewhere by being a pain in the arse. That role went to Prendergast who, after a wobbly start and two spills/rips, came roaring back and was our best forward for me. He might not be the carrier that a lot of others are but he had a number of really effective and smart plays. The pick of those was for the Earls try. He picked up the McCarthy offload from his laces and spun a pass to midfield where VDF was much better placed for an effective carry. So many back row players are putting their heads down in that situation and barrelling into the nearest defender. It was as good as any centre would do. He managed some massive tackles, winning a penalty on his own 5m line with a jackal too. Really impressed with his counter ruck too where he blew through Itoje to scrag Youngs which then led to Beirne rucking and England conceding a penalty.

Locks were decent and again, grew into things after the break. Farrell must have given them a solid kick in the arse at the break. Ryan's discipline was poor in the first half but didn't get whistled again after that and was far more prominent around the park. Beirne was fairly anonymous in the first half but also really grew into it contributing some big plays in the tight and was still firing into tackles late on. They have to take their share of the blame for the line out, Ryan in particular given he was calling it. But I imagine he was being slightly more cavalier with his calls than he'll be in a month. Throws to the tail repeatedly aren't what we normally see.

Front row was good in the scrum but also has to take some blame for the line out. Furlong looks to have lost a little dynamism although he did have one or two forceful carries in the second half. Porter was very quiet around the park. Good to see them on top of the English scrum though given past issues there. Sheehan was going fine until his injury which is a big concern. Herring was similarly fine but again, lineout woes continued with him and at least one or two of those looked to be ropey throws. One crooked and one right over the top of the jumper.

I recall we botched three lineouts in a row in a warm up in 2011 with Flannery throwing to POC so it happens in these games even when you've the best personnel available.

A couple of the bench were very impactful. Bealham brought a lot of energy and physicality. Absolutely got away with the penalty on our own line which should have gone to England given he clearly came off the ball and went back again. He also conceded a scrum penalty and got done in defence for a line break. He'll be disappointed with those but his work around the park was very solid particularly in the tight where we started to boss England (having three locks on the field probably a factor). Loughman really wasn't on enough to contribute although he was done in defence once, Marcus Smith leaving him on his ass although that's no surprise given he does it to backs all the time.

Joe McCarthy had a big 20 minutes. Stopping Lawes dead and picking him up, turning over the ball on their 22, turning over a maul on our 22 and getting his hands on the ball a number of times. If there was any doubt about him being on the plane beforehand, it's certainly gone now.

Doris was in the Loughman bracket although made one sneaky play at a ruck which caused the English scrum half to knock on after a break, swinging his leg over the ruck.

Murray was not good. Bit of a weird showing. If he wasn't Conor Murray, Casey would be expecting to leapfrog him on the back of the last few weeks. A shocker of a pass that caused Crowley to spill in his own 22 and directly led to their try. Then he delayed at the base of a scrum and ended up scragged and flinging a pass back out of the tackle again in his own territory. Just far too casual. He's fine because we know what he can do.

Crowley was quiet but little came his way, won't thank Murray for the pass. Offloaded to an English player on his own 22 as he went to ground. Doesn't want to make a habit of those moments. Needs to find that balance between his running ability and making the right decision about when to reset and not force it.

Earls. Carlsberg doesn't do 100th caps.

molloyjh

Pretty happy with that performance overall. The only really area of concern is the line out and we’ve seen POC turn that around quickly in the past. There was always going to be a bit of rustiness on display but I felt we spent most of that game in 3rd or 4th gear. We showed enough to suggest that we’ve plenty in the locker as when we did click into gear we had some impressive passages. The build up to the second try being a good example. If the line out hadn’t malfunctioned so badly I reckon we’d have had at least another 2 tries. Had we scored 40-45 points then I think everyone would be very comfortable with where we are at. Well, almost everyone.

And the most important thing to remember about where we are at is that we have another 5 weeks before we play SA. And another 3 weeks after that before a probable QF. We won’t win that game in August. We’ve shown that we have enough to manage those first 2 weeks and can turn it on the play some very good stuff. Now we have time to address the line out issues and tidy up our game. We need to be hitting our peak in 7-8 weeks time. Not now.

CMcsporty

Who's playing FB v Romania?

Could even stick James Ryan back there against poor Romania.

https://x.com/rpetty80/status/1693280478848045272?s=46&t=LZNAt8uQdNSsqynXTsT0dw

TheRestorationOfPeter

Coombes could do a job at FB!!

He must have felt like smashing down walls watching the England game. Ireland still need big ball carriers.

He would be perfect for Tonga and from the bench v SA.

A2LUE42

I must be the only one that is not too unhappy with the lineout issues in the Eng game. They may have done us a huge favor. Much prefer to have the issues in a warm up game that Ireland won, than having all go swimmingly until we meet the Boks/FRA/NZ and then discovering that the lineout is found wanting. Also, a shambles like the other day from a lineout perspective was also about about having a very basic lineout and leaving very little for opposition to analyze. Time will tell.

CMcsporty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006161#Comment_121006161

Biggest Lineout issue is the sealing off penalty they keep conceding. It’s been going on since last year.

Whatever about the other glitches that is the red flag.

A2LUE42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006188#Comment_121006188

I thought England were contributing to this and maneuvering the irish players into that penalty position, it seemed like something they had planned before and not some off the cuff idea.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006205#Comment_121006205

same thing happened in the previous game though, one of the commentators was saying been happening to the provinces for a while.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006205#Comment_121006205

I think once it looked like that might have happened but no, it's happening too much and is annoying at this stage as we know refs are watching it.

But even if England were trying this ploy, during the game we should have been able to work a way to prevent this.

A2LUE42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006300#Comment_121006300

I'd agree on that, but it was more about the 'picture being painted', and highlighting something that the opposition has been pinged for a lot recently and knowing the Ref would be watching out for it. I'd expect it is one of the 'work ons' (hate that expression) that the Irish pack and coaches will focus on.

leakyboots

Yeah, I'd imagine the coaches have tried to stop us doing this and for whatever reason on the pitch we keep getting caught out. You don't wanna get pinged for that going for a try-line maul in a crucial stage in a crunch game