Car usage drops by 1% in over a decade

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995549#Comment_120995549

Hybrids and Electric Cars basically follow the carbon credit model: You can be as environmentally irresponsible as you like so long as you can pay someone to take your Carbon Credits 🙄

Remember in 2007/8 the CO2 changes came in Diesel was considered "Green" 🤣

GAS!

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994836#Comment_120994836

Yes there's room for cycle lanes, not much room for car lanes though.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994513#Comment_120994513

The meter goes on distance and time not "revving the car" 🙄

Did your wife report the driver to the NTA if she thought the fare was inflated?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995497#Comment_120995497

Not really because the average car in Ireland in the 1970s was a Fiat 127, now it's a large crossover / small SUV.

https://www.irishtimes.com/motors/2023/08/02/how-not-to-buy-an-suv-the-compact-alternative-cars-you-should-look-at-first/

The IEA has calculated that an SUV will use around 25 per cent more energy than a lower-slung body shape with the same engine. That profligacy means that the growth of SUVs has wiped out, and then some, advances made in fuel efficiency since 2010. The IEA estimates that improvements in engine design and aerodynamics have saved around 2-million barrels per day of oil consumption. The rise of the SUV, it estimates, has cost 3.3-million barrels per day in the same time period.

Then of course it doesn't matter how efficient/electric your car is, it still causes congestion (which makes everyone else's emissions worse), makes life less pleasant for cyclists and pedestrians, and holds up buses.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995606#Comment_120995606

Remember in 2007/8 the CO2 changes came in Diesel was considered "Green" 🤣

Who said it was? I presume a quote will be easy to find!

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996021#Comment_120996021

Green because it was the Greens that brought in to Motortax changes in 2008, because Diesel were low CO2 emitting when compared with their petrol counterparts at the time.

Taxing a Diesel became way cheaper, that the equivalent powered Petrol car.

Like everyone knew it wasn't Green but it was the usual light touch crap. I'm sure I can dig something up...

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996091#Comment_120996091

So no quote for that?

The Greens didn't say that diesel was green, just that it was lower in CO2 which we needed to reduce to keep us in with our (2020?) EU Carbon targets.

The Greens did many things wrong back then but this wasn't really one of them. Not sure why people try and put words in the Greens mouth when it's easily proven wrong!

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994633#Comment_120994633

Theyve only had 20 years to practice. What makes you think they are going to get better in the next 20 if you dont think they cant get it right after the first 20.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994720#Comment_120994720

My 10 year old neice an nephew are in the house now. they want me to take them to a shop about a km away. Normally i would walk down with them. As I look out the window now - Get in the car kids.

Its my others car too because i stupidly sold mine 6 months ago and have to keep borrowing other peoples cars the last few months which im sure they are getting sick of.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995485#Comment_120995485

So if you are not going to actually get things done best go bak to just talking about them for another 20 years. Its worked so well so far. Always excuses for not getting things done.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995511#Comment_120995511

You mean like cigarettes :)

Yeah they are really worried more about health than collecting taxes.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996125#Comment_120996125

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley)

"The new CO2-based motor tax system will apply to new and pre-owned imported cars registered on or after 1 July 2008. This measure is clear evidence of the Government's commitment to tackle climate change. Climate change is profound in its implications for the planet and its inhabitants and represents a very significant challenge to society. It cuts to the core of modern living and commercial activity. The solution is clear. We must reduce human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases and we must do so quickly if we are to avoid the worst impacts of climate change. We all have a responsibility to play our part."

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2008-02-20/10/

You are correct that he doesn't call it "Green" but the entire debate implies that the changes will be better for the environment and will help tackle climate change. (there's whole bunch of other terms in that debate that have changed as out understanding of pollutions effect on our environment changes)

Regardless, it was seen that Diesels were more environmentally friendly given their lower CO2 that petrol cars. No one actually bothered to check what the other pollutants were and hence it was implied to diesels were "More Green" than petrol cars, which we now know is rubbish. That was put to him by Phil Hogan at the time, but Mr Gormleys response was some babble about Euro 4 and DPF's and we all know how that ended.

I believe the same thing will happen with Hybrids and Electrics in 10 years or so. (I hope I'm wrong though)

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996127#Comment_120996127

I dont think it'll change but thats not the point. The point is we haven't actually attempted such a change.

Bubonic

I live in an area with lots of regular and fast bus routes into town, its very easy to use and I am in really quickly due to bus lanes.

However, I am sharing the bus with drunks and drug addicts. Even early enough in the morning addicts are heading into the city centre.

On one particular day recently I had to drop my son into something in town and three addicts where passing drugs around on the back seat

and they also smelled like they hadn't washed in weeks. People where moving to the other end of the bus and standing rather than be near them.

I did dream of getting into the car that day.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994801#Comment_120994801

after waiting in the rain today for a bus to not turn up…you can stick the public transport where the sun doesn’t shine… just as well I didn’t bump into Eamon Ryan today.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997589#Comment_120997589

Can you not use the live app?

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994720#Comment_120994720

Car ownership per capita in the Netherlands is higher than in Ireland. But public transport is of a standard that people use it for some trips even though they own a car. But then the Netherlands had integrated ticketing 50 years ago.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997608#Comment_120997608

I was till the bus disappeared. Probably down to drivers shift finishing and no overtime authorised or something stupid like that. It’s happens regularly.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995980#Comment_120995980

That's a different problem. If people are choosing to drive Q8s instead of A4 Avants for the grocery run, then that's an inefficiency separate from the desire to use a car and much easier to legislate (or tax) behavioural change over.

A lot of the congestion for those 2km trips aren't holding up buses, though... if there were buses to take to the school/shop/whatever, like there are options going downtown, I suspect a number of the cars wouldn't be on the road!

As an example of the lack of provision of alternatives, look at the school runs. I live in car country: Central Texas. My city of 2million is 60km one end to the other, much public transport isn't viable (Let alone bicycling at 42C!), so praise the almighty automobile with cheap gas and freeways! But if there's one thing the Americans do correctly by way of public transport, it's the school run: Those famous yellow buses. My son started primary (Elementary, in local terms) school this week. When we registered for the school, we checked the box for 'bus pickup'. All the students' addresses were plugged into the system over the last two weeks, and the buses and drivers were divvied up to drive routes to all those addresses. It's not up to us to go to the bus (well, OK, we do need to go to the junction of the main road, a 50meter walk), but the bus comes to us. Once the route is set, it's good for the year: After all, 99% of the students won't relocate, and they won't change the time they need to be in school. Oh, and it's free (Well, paid for by my property taxes, but I was going to pay that anyway even without a kid). And woe betide any motorist, motorcyclist or cyclist who doesn't comply with the bus' flashing lights.

This isn't quibbling over whether or not a V8 SUV uses more petrol than a V6 hatchback, this is a service which simply isn't available in Dublin. At all. Yes, Bus Eireann does the School Transport Scheme, but according to their own website, the kids still need to be transported up to 2.5km to get to the bus stop, so they're driving anyway. Oh, and the families pay for it. It's not even close to equivalent, which is why though you will see fleets of yellow buses roaming an American suburb, you don't see anything like it in Dublin. That's nothing to do with car-mad Irishmen, it's a lack of an emplaced alternative.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997890#Comment_120997890

In terms of ticketing I would say the Netherlands is now behind Ireland. Its definitely more expensive in the Netherlands and every tram in Amsterdam has a ridiculous one door entry only so you have to walk past a little ticket desk on the tram which takes up half of a carriage and has to be staffed at all times.

They have us beat in physical infrastructure and punctuality but their obsession with fare evasion has produced many functional inefficiencies. You also have to buy a separate (expensive) ticket to the airport because city tickets only work within the city.

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993956#Comment_120993956

if the cycle lanes look empty, it's because they are not stuck in traffic -unlike motorists- https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/census-2022-cycling-work-almost-30128215

https://irishcycle.com/2023/05/30/nearly-100k-people-commute-by-bicycle-daily-in-ireland-with-large-jump-in-children-cycling/

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0528/1143184-dublin-figures-indicate-increase-in-sustainable-travel/

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994875#Comment_120994875

you would want to be making minimum of e50 per hour to lose that money, plus ypu would be taxed on that, so, you'd probably want to be making e75 per hour, to be at a loss-but there are other variables that I did not take into account.

Strumms

Amsterdam :

Population - 925,000

Public Transport -

Metro ( 5 lines & 39 stations ),

Tram ( 14 lines & 500 stops )

in addition bus, water taxi, taxis

Dublin :

Population - 1.2 million

Public Transport - bus, tram ( 2 lines ), taxis, Dart ( 1 line ) aka, fûck all for a city this size.

this is why there is no significant drop in car usage… a lot of the more green minded people think ohhh it’s just ‘ fûck the environment ‘…

its NOT… if proper designed, effective, integrated efficient far reaching public transport exists, folks will use it…

if I lived in any other EU capital or major city I wouldn’t bother with a car, I wouldn’t need a car.

Until here is the same…. 🤷‍♂️

What EU countries do public transport better than Ireland ? Everyone, everywhere…. It’s not good enough for a first world country in 2023…

we are not in the relegation zone we are bottom of the table… have the money to sort it but it’s being spent elsewhere and in fact has been for some time.

BaywatchHQ

I hate driving because of all the aggression of drivers. I always feel on edge when driving because of the constant tail gaiting. This stress then makes you more likely to make errors or drive over a speed limit. I bet driving was much more relaxing back before the 1980s.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121000321#Comment_121000321

You must be young!

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994448#Comment_120994448

We need more validator on busses. Make the driver use his. 15 people waiting for the right hand validator and the driver refusing to use his machine at all.

The other thing about busses imo is that NTA doesn't consider a bus full unless people are standing. Personally I won't choose a bus if I have to stand. So NTA says there's adequate busses in my area at rush hour while I'm considering abandoning the bus.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309788/car-usage-drops-by-1-in-over-a-decade

yup, we better crack on with building a modern rail network, or we re fcuked, simple as really!

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121000040#Comment_121000040

not that it changes the point, but it's worth mentioning you're not comparing like with like there with the populations, it makes dublin look bigger than amsterdam and that's not the case. you've stated the population of the amsterdam city area, and the population of dublin urban plus suburban.

from the amsterdam wiki page: "It has a population of 921,402 within the city proper, 1,457,018 in the urban area and 2,480,394 in the metropolitan area." wikipedia states dublin's metro population is 1.46m.

NewbridgeIR

I WFH a fair bit but do need to travel to either a local office (20 minutes walk) or city centre occasionally (train & Luas).

However if I am socialising in city centre at night I will drive in as I can be home in 40 minutes. Trains stop running at 11.10pm, late buses stop around 1.00am and there is a lot of waiting around in a rather edgy atmosphere. Sometimes I DJ so the car is extremely handy for carrying my records/CDs. Driving means no alcohol but that doesn't bother me that much. If there was a ban on bringing cars into the city centre (and I have been criticised for choosing to drive) then I just wouldn't go in.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998251#Comment_120998251

Sure it can (and should) be incentivised with taxes to choose smaller and more efficient cars (not just cleaner) but that's not really happening, and we're not seeing the environmental impact of the average car going down as much as we might expect - if at all.

Not sure if the US model of school transport would work here especially in urban areas. For starters they have a public school system, we don't and schools are not all interchangeable (single-sex or co-ed, Irish or English, Catholic or ET etc. etc.) so many pupils don't go to the nearest school.