Nurse Lucy Letby found guilty of murdering seven babies

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011179#Comment_121011179

...and some realise, its just fcuking ignorant to treat fellow workers as such!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010364#Comment_121010364

You seem to have lack of empathy yourself, which I'm not saying as an insult - I think I've seen you acknowledge it before. But you're making the mistake of assuming that therefore you're right and everyone else is wrong. And that people actually feel the same way as you deep down. E.g. victim impact statements are just repetitive to YOU, therefore there's no value to them. You're also being fairly self congratulatory. But you're the outlier here. Emotions are valid. In a trial, they cannot come into proceedings - and that's how it should be, otherwise it wouldn't be a fair, impartial trial. But this is just an internet discussion, not a court of law. You're deciding that people expressing emotions are being insincere - but they're not at all. It's perfectly standard to be upset and angered by infanticide, whether knowing the family or not - it's more unusual not to be affected.

Talking about what terrible punishments Letby should receive? Not my style, but I understand the anger, and it is only talk... provoked by one of the worst things a person could do. Saying internet talk and multiple infanticides are comparable is preposterous and silly.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121009565#Comment_121009565

No the reason I think she should have to listen to the statements from the bereaved is that it might give some relief to the bereaved. That’s as clear as glass.

Because you have no empathy for or sympathy with the bereaved (indeed, you clearly see them as a bit of a nuisance standing there waffling on with their nonsense that you’ve heard over and over again) then I don’t expect you to understand that at all.

You simply don’t think that Lucy Letby should have that inconvenience and discomfort on top of the misfortune of having been found guilty.

Have you thought about joining a prisoners rights group at all?

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011179#Comment_121011179

I'm not saying good supervision would have stopped her but it might have stopped some of it or it might have been uncovered quicker. The soap opera bits of all this 'Evil killer' and very little interest in the mundane, boring management issues that might have prevented some of this.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011065#Comment_121011065

She's a completely disgraced nurse, her qualifications now mean nothing, she might as well no longer have them.

Would you feel comfortable with her attending you or your relatives at a future point?

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010691#Comment_121010691

Looking at the list of people who have been given Whole Life Orders in the UK, many of them were younger than her 33 years, with a number of recent ones in their mid 20s when convicted.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010027#Comment_121010027

Because wanderer always automatically takes an extreme hard left wing position on all these things. “Yes it’s very sad the little babies died but won’t somebody please think of the health and welfare of the prisoner?”

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011214#Comment_121011214

...fcuk that, shes clearly very much disturbed, to put her in charge of peoples care, again, you d want to be a little unhinged yourself to think so!

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011080#Comment_121011080

A couple of years should do it. She’ll have learned the error of her ways she’ll have been rehabilitated and could be eased back into the caring profession with some light touch monitoring. Nothing too overbearing now. Lucy is entitled to her dignity and self respect as a person in her own right.

French Toast

Should've been dragged by her ankles in to the courtroom and tied to the chair to face the parents of the children she killed.

Evil coward.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011220#Comment_121011220

hahaha, extreme hard left, sorry but im actually a centrist at heart!

the reasons why we should in fact 'care' for the well being of such persons, is the fact, such cases arent actually all that unique, grande above has in fact done similar case studies from around the world, these type of situations do actually pop up from time to time, i.e. potentially very questionable folks ending up in positions of care, so if we actually dont put in some sort of effort to get to the bottom of such outcomes, they will more then likely keep happening over and over and over....

...also baring in mind, sometimes, just sometimes, the appeals process sometimes goes the way of such perpetrators, eventually, i.e. the forever in incarceration isnt actually absolutely true, she may in fact be eventually realised, it probably wont happen for some decades though, and thankfully so, but....

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011265#Comment_121011265

You are digging a massive hole for yourself. I know it's hard when a central tenant of life for you is, if schools were better, if mental health services were better, if society was better if society sorted every social ill... However, some individuals are evil no amount of care love support help will change that.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011378#Comment_121011378

again, id have to respectfully disagree, i actually find this term 'evil' as rather immature in these debates, again, you will find most, if not all criminals, including those incarcerated, actually do have well known, well documented disorders, including my own....this is well documented now, we have peer reviewed data and research to confirm this, going back decades.....

yes, i will agree, some of these disorders are currently untreatable, and some will more than likely remain to be, indefinitely....but some are!

dbas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011404#Comment_121011404

Out of interest, What word would you use instead of evil?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011404#Comment_121011404

The whole 'evil' thing reminds me of sensationalist red top tabloids and forever has connotations of 'evil powers' and religious links. It's almost a bit of an out for society in a way, the person is evil, as if there's a malevolent force within them that they don't have control over, something that was always there.

Allows us common folks to apply black and white thinking to the situation and gives us a bit of an explanation as to how someone could commit such acts. 'oh that person is evil, that's why they did it'.

When in actual fact the truth of the matter is she seemed like a fairly average run of the mill person with parents who loved her and a group of friends which are willing to stick by her, even after being convicted of some of the worst (if not the worst) crimes imaginable - Which is far more terrifying.

kirk.

Amazing how ugly these killers look when their mugshot is taken

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011494#Comment_121011494

Do not underestimate the power of the human smile, something folks rarely do in mugshots!

It's frustrating when people pontificate smugly over the use of the word "evil".

So while yes, much of the time terrible behaviour is due to mental illness and trauma, what's so hard to fathom about people just being innately bad? She was *seemingly* a regular, run of the mill woman... but in actual fact she wasn't.

Be right back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011494#Comment_121011494

With cold, expressionless eyes. Anyone see the video of her arrest? She seemed more concerned about her knee than why she was under arrest.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011520#Comment_121011520

'pontificate smugly'? jaysus, who pissed in your cornflakes?

Care to expand on what 'innately bad' actually means? You're just going back to that black and white thinking that I mentioned, wanting to stick a label on something without actually explaining what the label means.

mariaalice

It's not evil as a religious thing nor a man with horns, I looked up a few experts on this, and the common factors seem to be an extreme lack of empathy and sadism including non-violent sadism which often to do with having power over people it emerges as a child or as they enter adolescent.

It's not just you Oisin - but there are posts looking down on people for, completely fairly, viewing Letby as evil. "Innately bad" is a self explanatory term - don't be obtuse. I have acknowledged that it isn't always black and white (I'd say it rarely is) but this person with no trauma, no mental illness... did one of the most evil things imaginable. As there are good people, why is it such a stretch to believe there are evil people (thankfully far fewer than good)?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011580#Comment_121011580

I suppose folks approach this in different ways.

Some people who believe in a god / a higher power / spiritual otherwordly realms see things like this as an evil, the perpetrator is potentially being influenced by a malevolent force or was 'born evil' or some other such thing.

People who do not believe in the above have to approach this from a point of view that our minds are made up from a sum of our experiences, traumas and the actual physicality of our brain, from the moment we were born.

People in both camps above can all agree that someone is a terrible human being and deserves life in prison or whatever other punishment is deemed appropriate. People in both camps above can also agree that this person should never rejoin society or be given another chance (I sure don't!)

I suppose the difference being in how we come to terms with someone existing like this in the first place. The whole 'born evil' thing is just way too simplistic IMO as there is obviously more to it than that.

Maybe the 'evil' thing in some sense can just come down to the semantics of a word really, a lot of us probably mean the same thing.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011463#Comment_121011463

”Evil” tends to be used in cases where no alternative explanation can be found to explain the behaviour.

What concerns me is the “group think” that existed within the wider medical team that prevented an investigation happening much earlier and even two doctors, doctors not janitors, who raised concerns were silenced and effectively disciplined - what sort of a fcking hospital were they running anyway? Heads should role for this inaction

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011207#Comment_121011207

Tell me. What sort of relief are they getting when the killer does not care?

walshb

Remove all the silly semantics. Humans are capable of good, bad and downright ugly acts. Some humans thrive on and get pleasure from committing ugly acts. Some jus commit them and didn't get any real pleasure. The human is a minefield of sh1t.

Letby committed depraved/ugly acts. Only she really knows why, but reading between the lines it appears she got a thrill/high from being able to kill babies.

Kaybaykwah

Another nurse in the UK, Beverley Allitt did the same in 1991, and was convicted.

How can hospital administrators dismiss the possibility that someone will repeat the same pattern of behaviour?

This shows how callous these bureaucratic types can be in the face of alarming circumstances.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011580#Comment_121011580

She does not appear to be mentally ill nor have any definable disorder, maybe she has aspects of several disorders her interior world would indicate something was not right, the notes the police found saying "I'm evil I did it then writing "I'm innocent even writing and leaving notes to be found is an indicator of something odd at the very least.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011827#Comment_121011827

Always reminds me of the case of Phineas Gage, survived a traumatic brain injury where a steel beam went through his left frontal lobe, after which he supposedly went through extreme personality changes.

Brain aneurysms can have a similar affect. This is the height of speculation, but you do have to wonder if it could be explained as simply as that.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011494#Comment_121011494

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011524#Comment_121011524

Don't fall into the trap of thinking you can tell anything about anyone from a mugshot. Firstly, they're deliberately taken with flat, direct lighting, which is unflattering. Secondly, they're obviously taken at a somewhat stressful time for the suspect, often after being arrested first thing in the morning or late at night, and usually feature a neutral expression. Thirdly, we're culturally conditioned to associate a mugshot with a wrongdoer, so we tend to subconsciously associate the style and look of a typical mugshot with negative personal traits, regardless of who the person is. You'll also notice that when media organisations publish mugshots, they tend to crop the top of the head and zoom in on the face, which is a visual cue to us that we're invited to inspect and analyse the individual. That inspection will rarely result in a positive analysis.

There's plenty of photos of Letby looking like a perfectly normal person. Which, in aspects of her life outside of her heinous crimes, by all accounts she was.