Nurse Lucy Letby found guilty of murdering seven babies

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015794#Comment_121015794

i wouldnt exactly say release her, but there was definitely serious systemic fcuk ups a long the way to....

mariaalice

The conspiracy theorists have turned up.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015794#Comment_121015794

The evidence relating to Facebook searches and the notes are open to question

An expert dismissed the confessions said they're only evidence of stress

Sure didn't Ian Bailey confess and do all sorts of strange things

charlie_says

Issues with statistical evidence also.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015794#Comment_121015794

A Judge and Jury sat on this case for 10 months, heard evidence first hand, deliberated and came to the conclusion that she did it.

Why do you think you have the ability to come to your own independent armchair conclusion that differs? Do you know something they don't?

kirk.

I don't believe the senior doctor theory

My eyebrows were raised when I saw the prosecution description of the Facebook searches and notes

Doesn't mean she's innocent but there's a doubt , that 1%

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015466#Comment_121015466

I'd really advise you to educate yourself as to the workload of an ICU nurse, if currently you think they've loads of downtime and only need to move when an alarm sounds!

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016148#Comment_121016148

Fair enough, not an expert.

I'd have thought because you are only caring for 1 patient that ICU would be relatively serene especially when that patient is asleep. Generally just a regular check that everything is stable, fill in the forms, checklists etc. With the proviso that at any minute something could go critically wrong and you have to leap into life-saving emergency mode.

Whereas a normal ward would be busier because you are looking after multiple patients and one of them would always be awake and needing something. But conversely less likely for an emergency to occur.

But as I said, not an expert. Would be happy to be enlightened.

political analyst

Last night on the Press Preview on Sky News, Conservative Home deputy editor Henry Hill asked why the consultants at that hospital were unwilling to inform the police of their suspicions without the boss's permission. To play devil's advocate, newscaster Anna Botting said in response that healthcare workers who have suspicions are afraid that they will have no protection against reprisals if their suspicions turn out to be wrong.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016253#Comment_121016253

Doesn't stack up as an excuse ,what repercussions for going to police ?

Also if the doctors had so little faith in management originally they should have been going straight to police anyway

Imo they don't come out of this too well

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016557#Comment_121016557

I asked that question but I didn't get an answer. I'm just saying what Anna Botting said on Sky News last night.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016576#Comment_121016576

It's the Chain of Command theory I think. Which generally works. Until it doesn't.

But you don't want someone skipping steps - whether it's a police constable going straight to his Superintendent because he doesn't think his direct sergeant is investigating something properly, or a doctor bypassing hospital management to go to the police. If you do it, and are wrong, your career is stone cold dead. Even if you are right, the most you'll get is grudging praise. In real-life, no-one like a Quincy (may be too young to get the reference, google Quincy M.E.)

charlie_says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015926#Comment_121015926

So there has never been a miscarriage of justice before? I have heard things that weren't in the trial yes, I'll just get smeared by the usual groupthink brigade here so I'll wait happily to see it come out and enjoy their essay length meltdowns in the meantime.

Here is one similar example (apologies for sh*te wikipedia link but am in a hurry)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016877#Comment_121016877

That's fair enough. There have been miscarriages of justice and there's always a non-zero chance that this could be one.

But that wasn't your original point. You originally declared someone else (a doctor) guilty and said 'Release Lucy'. That's the complete nonsense people were pulling you up on. And I'm far from the 'groupthink brigade', if anything I'm mildly uneasy at a few things in the case myself.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016866#Comment_121016866

Whistleblowers must break the chain of command by design

My understanding was they were afforded some protection

The cynic in me says the doctors were ticking all the correct boxes in this affair .

Apologizing to the nurse 😠

Doctors are well versed in hospital politics and arguments. They're well capable of refusing to apologise here if it suited them .

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015901#Comment_121015901

You say that as if Ian Bailey was found not guilty, which he wasn`t, or even if he`d won a civil case, which he didn`t. Come to think of it, there`s a bunch of posters on the Bailey threads who think that circumstantial evidence amounts to no evidence. I`m surprised some of them haven`t turned up here jumping up and down and crying about a miscarriage of justice.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017329#Comment_121017329

You're no better yourself

No arguments except throwing out the conspiracy accusations

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017362#Comment_121017362

It tends to narrow things down fairly quickly when you start throwing out the conspiracy theories. The only good conspiracy is a conspiracy of one. Add in the passing of time, the requirement for multiple conspirators within the gardaí and the general public, the fact that the Bandon tapes show no evidence of any conspiracy even though gardaí were unaware that they were being recorded and it is abundantly clear there was no conspiracy in the Du Plantier case. Nor was there one in the Letby case. Just another nutjob doing what some nutjobs do.

walshb

Some a the gick here.. just because she wasn’t videoed murdering the babies we have people questioning her guilt..

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015942#Comment_121015942

Reasonable doubt?

Yesterday you said guilty beyond reasonable doubt you believed, and now you’re peddling a doubt? 1 percent? How would anyone get convicted with this silliness?

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015416#Comment_121015416

i don't think it'll be a walk in the park, but probably not the hell on earth some people want for her. are you disappointed to learn that?

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015848#Comment_121015848

what took them so long?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015359#Comment_121015359

Of course it would pick up those interactions.

She would have to explain what she was injecting, etc. Same as if somebody was standing there watching.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017507#Comment_121017507

...not at all, i do think the sentencing was fair, that part of the judicial process has worked very well, she definitely needs to do considerable time, but the system needs to find out wtf happened, and why, or this may happen again....

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017539#Comment_121017539

What system? Hospital management?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017557#Comment_121017557

... the whole works, health care, now judicial system, and other critical social systems, including educational and training systems, etc, there was clearly widescale systemic failures here, very possible she was showing signs of dysfunction growing up, while moving through all of these systems...

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017571#Comment_121017571

Ah, trying to pin this on society.

do you believe nobody can commit heinous acts without some fort of societal failures?

not possible that some people (no matter how “great” society is) will be scumbags snd do awful things?

signs of dysfunction growing up? What if she was..? Loads loads loads folks have dysfunction in their lives. It’s part of being human.

again, seems like you’re trying to blame something else on her actions. As if “she was let down” by us!!!!!!

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015466#Comment_121015466

Why do you think it is 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 patients only??

ICU means intensive care unit.

And that is what is going on in intensive care, not just monitoring... care of patient on multiple life saving modes, ventilation, intravenous and central lines, arterial lines, bloods and arterial blood gases, infusions supporting blood pressure and other vital organs, dialysis, dressings, hygiene and with tiny babies some tubefeeding with tiny amounts of expressed mother's breast milk or speciial formula.

Its very involved, very demanding and more than just monitoring. Day or night.

Throw in one patient not doing well and its busier than 12 hours running a marathon! And a lot more stressful for all concerned.

Would be no time for texting or social media.

The other area, step down care or special care baby unit is 2 to 3 hourly feeds and monitoring and more normal baby care, less intensive, and this is what she was doing as far as I can see.

So there yes I can see some use of mobile phone may be permitted.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017539#Comment_121017539

It`s obvious what happened. Administrators that weren`t at the cutting edge didn`t want to deal with the reality that a sh*tshow would be brought upon their comfortable existence. One of them has since retired on a 1.8 million pension. Then you have a couple of consultants who initially had suspicions but weren`t courageous enough to put their jobs on the line to nail Letby. They even apologized to her. Then you had the union rep who wasn`t interested in the bigger picture and whose only concern was their union member.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121014734#Comment_121014734

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121014734#Comment_121014734

Ahh I didn't take it up like that.

He was replying to me, a nurse, and I had asked him about his child as he had mentioned his experience.

I am sure it was not meant literally.