Irish White Privilege......Yeah

thegame983

We're a small island off the coast of Europe. What skin color do these clowns expect us to have?

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005273#Comment_121005273

To coin one of your cohorts phrases .. the vast majority judge travellers by their “lived experience”

unfortunately, travellers are white and Irish so by that definition they also have “privilege”.

there are FAR too many, with vested interests, trying to place wedges in western societies through race/colour/gender differences. It is causing much of the division, instead of inclusivity that they so wish was a utopian dream.

perhaps, you forget not that long ago, Ireland was a third world country, not by my definition. Yes it has come a long way, but the stupidity of trying to divide people based on some ridiculous “privilege” notion is going down the wrong path.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005537#Comment_121005537

So this company wanted to hire people who were likely the most affluent applicants? They tend to do that and your being white and Irish wasn't really the driving factor behind that.

Some clown running a pub in a regional town is a bit racist? As mentioned earlier, there's always going to be the occasional moron but it is hardly indicative of the majority of peoples opinions.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005758#Comment_121005758

Jump straight to the most extreme thing you can think of, that's the road to a balanced discussion.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005770#Comment_121005770

I didn't jumo, maybe you missed it but the whole thread is based around extreme hysteria over modern teaching. To avoid modern teaching you'd have to avoid sending kids to get a proper education.

Those free books are part of the indoctrination process!!!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004984#Comment_121004984

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005791#Comment_121005791

First off, I corrected the typo, but good on you for taking the high road in your response.

And your central point is entirely disingenuous and intended as nothing but a means of ridiculing people who take issue with the notion that white privilege is an issue in Ireland.

So what's your experience? Have you gotten ahead in life because of your being a white irish person?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005798#Comment_121005798

"White privilege" is a steaming load of shíte. But so is SPHE, so its a good match, at least its not a new subject plugged in to the schedule to waste time. I mean no one in school gave a flying fùck when that came around on the timetable. SPHE was a joke long before they added even more rubbish to it. You'd just be doing homework from other subjects during it, it was never taken seriously.

The idea/panic that it is going to divide/harm/indoctrinate kids is utter hysterical conspiracy. Its turning a tiny molehill into Mt. Everest.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005829#Comment_121005829

Were it some form of far right indoctrination being attempted people would rightly demand it be stopped in its tracks.

This isn't about the level of respect students have for patently ridiculous course work, it's about resisting the normalisation of divisive hate fuelled rhetoric.

No mountain is being made out of any molehill, it's just people being alert to stupid crap like a societal immune system kicking into gear.

FishOnABike

...

silverharp

I dont have the white guilt, looking at Irish history, we had potatoes in the ground, we picked them ourselves.....

Akrasia

It used to be good enough to just try your best to treat people fairly regardless of what their background was.

At least that was the message, even if our society was pretty insular and dominated by the gombeens and the Catholic Church

It was never about skin colour, and Ireland never internalised the rigid class structures with titles and private education worn as badges of honour, but there were still pecking orders and definitely a network of wealthy landowners (in association with powerful institutions like the church) who pulled the strings and controlled society and made sure the wealth and luxuries flowed in one direction.

Wealth and Privilege are all relative, and people are fully capable of victimising themselves if they perceive thatvtgeyre getting treated unfairly.

The homeless person can envy the person who manages to get emergency accommodation and will feel like the system is giving them a boost, the people looking to rent a house will see others get offered a place ahead of them and feel unfairly treated, the millionaire who doesn't get offered a place on some exclusive board could feel discriminated against...

There is something to be said for fostering a believe that most of us have things to be thankful for and that we should not dwell on the things we feel we are owed in life.

Self pity is one of the most destructive character traits. While genorousity of spirit can elevate even the most humble

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006000#Comment_121006000

true, on an individual level telling people that they as a group cant succeed based on one factor is disabling, the nonsense ideologies coming our way via the US and britain will be a curse on those that embrace it

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005677#Comment_121005677

I'm no Men's Rights Activist but it says a lot about you if you can't engage in discourse without 'othering' the other side of the debate.

It's not all black and white you know. There is space for nuance.

spurious

It's the NCCA.

It's a draft.

Relax the kacks.

Jack Daw

Every group and every individual has some degree of privilege associated with the circumstances they were born into, that is the way the world is.

Relentlessly focusing on supposed "white male privilege " does nobody any good and i's particularly ridiculous in a country like Ireland which was not a colonial power or enslaved anyone.

Black people living in America today have a massive degree of privilege compared to people from Ukraine today or people living in the Balkans in the 1990's or people living in Europe during WW2.

Nobody ever talks about the privilege women had in the past when they weren't forced into fighting in wars for a cause they didn't believe in.I'd much rather have been a woman than a man in Britain during WW1 and WW2, much rather have been a woman than a man in America during the Vietnam war etc etc.

People who waste their time thinking about supposed privilege would be better off to find something more constructive to do with their time, it's just being brought up by groups in order to turn people against each other and distract from real issues which effect everyone.

If any white men in Ireland feel White Male privilege in Ireland is a real thing then maybe they should go an do something about it themselves and donate their money to black people and stop bothering other people which such a non issue, the rest of us shouldn't have to care about a fake issue like this.

anonymouscactus

I thought that we weren't supposed to punish or scold children for the 'sins of the father.' The people advocating for these programmes consider themselves progressive, but what's progressive about living in the past, encouraging old resentments to fester, and worse of all INVENTING* reasons to be resentful if none are readily to hand.

Even with the religious language of 'sins' subtracted, surely basic fairness demands that we don't drag children into their parent's/grandparents'/greatgreatgrandparents bullshit... ESPECIALLY when that narrative is imported and does not apply to Irish history in the same way that it applies in the US, where this regressive stuff comes from, race being the US establishment's number one obssession and that country's 'original sin.'

*The Irish were fighting white, imperialists, slave owners, and racists (the English) for centuries before Africans knew that England existed. Literally, fighting against privilege.. and we have a strong sense of fairness that has developed from those historical stuggles. The narrative that we are dumb, privileged white people that know nothing about being oppressed is just plain false.

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004823#Comment_121004823

And yet they 'look like the innocent flower, But be the serpent under't'

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005235#Comment_121005235

In 2023 what privileges does a child born to African migrant parents not have that an Irish child does? That can be applied to the 3rd generations growing up in the age of Diversity, Equality & Inclusion. There are zero!!!!

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006466#Comment_121006466

they probably have more in fairness, they will get picked first for any job they are qualified for in any large multinational for the very reason of quotas.

2smiggy

for those that feel guilt, just go out and find some minority group you feel you have somehow wronged, and give them all your money and possessions. I, and the vast majority or normal people, will ignore this rubbish.

there seems to be a few maniacs here, could ye not send PM's to each other and arrange a meet up to discuss your guilt ?

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005109#Comment_121005109

Being Spanish in Spain or Mexico is pretty handy also...like wtf...this is now termed as privilege?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006498#Comment_121006498

As usual these people born into wealth will best quell their guilt by making poorer people pay for them this time by virtue of skin colour.

The logic is that if most people in an area like Foxrock are white then most white people have the same advantages that people in Foxrock have.

They talk about guilt yet they'll never do anything to rectify the situation their affluence and privilege causes for them on a moral level because they prefer keeping their money in their pockets and making others shoulder their guilt for them.

crusd

So it seems that what everyone is getting worked up about is the suggestion in the guidance that when considering the challenges faced by a minority, a student could consider where they may have "privilege" relative to that person and not at all what the hand wringers are making it out to be. I think that about sums it up?

Unflushable Turd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005102#Comment_121005102

If you ask the original inhabitants of North America, the Irish were as white as anyone else.

They were no angels either https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Murphy

2smiggy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006576#Comment_121006576

what 'guidance', for which minorities, and what challenges are you talking about ?

DownByTheGarden

I object to people calling me White Irish. I am freckle skinned Irish thankyou.

All of you non freckled lucky sobs check your privilege right now. And that inclide non freckled skin of any colour. And people with hair can fcuk right off too.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006576#Comment_121006576

Having to tiptoe around while conversing with someone who may have a different colour skin than you is hardly a way to encourage harmony and normality in interactions among people of different ethnic groups.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005638#Comment_121005638

Ah here, I gave you my general opinion and you looked for examples. I gave you two random examples and now they don't count.

Look, I don't know how this is even a controversial statement - if you are white and Irish and living in a predominantly white society in Ireland, you have an advantage over somebody who is not white and is not Irish. You have the advantage of being culturally similar to most people and will be favoured in many situations vs your non-white, non-irish peers. Its basic common sense.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006826#Comment_121006826

what about education, height, looks ,family wealth, personality , not having a mental or physical issues. I could list off 20 things that if I could, I would choose to be or not be. Why make ethnicity the filter?

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006496#Comment_121006496

According to the Institute of Antiracism and Black Studies set up by the racist herself, Dr Ebun Joseph, and as part of the National Action Plan against Racism diversity quotas will be needed to make companies hire people of migrant descent.

Varadkar himself favors setting targets in order to make the health service, schools and the civil service more "diverse"... The civil service “is very white”, Varadkar added, stating “that actually needs to change”. The very fact the leader of the country is mixed race and a gay man shows that race or sexual orientation is not an impediment to success. This is someone who excuses opinions and questions of importing 'the culture war'. Hypocrite

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006826#Comment_121006826

So if I went to live in South East Asia would I be at a disadvantage and see my being white as something that no longer affords me this perceived privilege?

Oddly you're ignoring the fact that a lot of companies based in Ireland which use our country as their European head quarters tend to hire a largely non Irish and often non white people for a lot of the best paid jobs in the country because of the simple reason they're better qualified than us white Irish people. No amount of school ties and stories of success on the rugby pitch are going to change that any time soon.

I wasn't dismissing your experiences, I simply didn't agree that those experiences are indicative of a system of white privilege in this country.

cdeb

Wasn't it Musgrave's who were caught advertising in Poland to fill warehouse jobs here because they wanted cheap flexible Eastern European labour, not Irish people who might want things like pension plans, steady employment and so on?

Irish privilege not doing much there.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006731#Comment_121006731

Only reference in the document to what you all are getting so worked up about:

How is suggesting someone might try and understand disadvantages that other person might have "tiptoeing around"

It is clear however that this is yet another example of trawling small print to create an issue where none exists and maintain permanent outrage.

cdeb

How have times does it have to be in the document to be discussed?

(Reasonably civilly for the most part too)

Anyone who references "permanent outrage" or similar in these kind of debates is usually making things up.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310097/irish-white-privilege-yeah

You had to go all the way to the appendix to find something to offend you 🙄

And it says, white or male or irish, and how it may be a privilege in comparison to some other minorities.

No mention of guilt either, btw.

cdeb

So things in appendices can't be discussed either?

It's funny how some posters try to use that base level of argument rather than actually try debate the issues being discussed.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006576#Comment_121006576

it would appear that would lead to the introduction of american style culture wars if we ask students to be aware of imbalances in society, though.

this whole thread hangs on a single reference in a glossary.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007020#Comment_121007020

But I'm not outraged just pointing out that the continual references to supposed privileged people that permeates society thees days is completely pointless and you'd be better of getting rid of them.

The only people who seem to have to think of their privilege in life continually seem to be white males, for example why is it never suggested that a black person or female in a prosperous country should consider their privilege when they interact with someone from a war torn country.

Suggesting how people should behave around other's and interact with others is essentially asking them to tiptoe around them and not treat them like everyone else .I would argue this sort of idea is the antithesis of equality.

magicbastarder

the continual references to supposed privileged people

99% of the references to privilege i've been exposed to recently are in this thread, funnily enough.

Suggesting how people should behave around other's and interact with others is essentially asking them to tiptoe around them and not treat them like everyone else .I would argue this sort of idea is the antithesis of equality.

you are essentially saying that recognising or understanding inequality is the antithesis of equality?

Be right back

I completed the survey and it's clear to me that the topics discussed should be taught by the parents/guardians, and not by the school. Education didn't seem to be mentioned really.

Strumms

in every country in the world, citizens and taxpayers in their individual countries are prioritised, privileged etc… that’s just how it should be…🤷‍♂️

hardly a point in having an Irish passport, citizenship etc if that just means you are deprioritised.

in Eritrea I’m entitled to SFA… so why should an Eritrean be entitled to everything an Irish person is and more, here ? Why should we be indoctrinating our kids to believe they are…?

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007362#Comment_121007362

Or are they saying that reducing something complex to things like ethnicity, skin colour or gender is racist/sexist?

magicbastarder

what other examples would have easily fit in the glossary? i somehow doubt that what's in the glossary as a quick example should be taken as comprehensive.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007020#Comment_121007020

I think the problem is more with the inherent prejudice in the examples of 'privilege' which are given.

It is paradoxical that a document which proposes means to address prejudice and discrimination appears to be guilty of the same prejudice.

Fred Cryton

The NGO's are an absolute cancerous boil on the Irish State and society. Somehow they've got themselves into the priviledged position (ironic indeed) of dictating policy and leeching €6bn in annual funding from the taxpayer.

Just imagine the scale of the accounting missmanagmement and corruption going on when €6bn is handed over annually to a bunch of amateurs. There's probably 100+ RTE style /Ryan Tubridy scandals going on annually in these quangos.

Their budgets need to be cut by two thirds at a minimum and they should be forced to merge (especially the "housing" quangos)

magicbastarder

NGOs? the NCCA is part of the dept of Education.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007813#Comment_121007813

The NGO's are influencing policy. NCCA don't make this up in a vacuum.

What does self flagellation achieve? Bitterness and resentment I'd wager. It's just needless division and polarisation, and it's imported from America, which DOES have a shocking history when it comes to race relations, but why drag us in?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007318#Comment_121007318

The referenced document did not say anything about people not recognising their privilege in other scenarios, just to consider what advantages they might have benefited from relative to others. You will in fact often hear first generation African Americans, usually children of "professionals", assert their privilege relative to descendants of slaves.

For example, as Irish people we have the privilege of being born in a stable democracy with near full employment and no internal or external threats to our security. Relative to Ukrainians form Kharkiv we definitely have privilege and when considering how we view people from that background. It not an Irish persons fault that they have benefited from a level of privilege, but it is real in relative terms. It is still in a persons prerogative to hold a view that we should not have taken in Ukranians, but should be from a position of considering their experience also.

There could be countless other examples where a group did not have the same privileges as another - eg. experience of the Irish in 1950's London where we definitely did not have privilege and suffered at the hands of those that did, Catholics in NI up to the 90's relative to Protestants, Irish in late 19th century New York relative to WASPS, descendants of Irish indentured labour in the Caribbean relative to blacks etc. etc.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007969#Comment_121007969

Because we love copying everything Americans do.