Irish White Privilege......Yeah

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012095#Comment_121012095

There are good people in every country in the world, there are assholes in every country in the world. Believe me I’ve done the legwork.

I have met very privileged individuals from the top of society who are the most welcoming people and also others who were the most obnoxious. The same with not privileged individuals. I don’t recognise people for what they have or their social standing or how much perceived privilege they have, I recognise them for who they are.

Good people are good people, be they privileged or not.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012142#Comment_121012142

Nobody is saying that people with privilege aren't good people. I don't understand why you're determined to break things down into good people vs bad people - that's not the point of the discussion at all.

magicbastarder

I... I... I...

OK, we've established you're enlightened. so you're saying that's a reason for it not to be on the curriculum?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012142#Comment_121012142

Perfect. If you're sound you're sound.

Talking about white male privilege, seems both sexist and racist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012095#Comment_121012095

I came from one of the most disadvantaged, non-privileged backgrounds you can think of. My annual earnings now easily put me in the top 1% in this country.

I didn't achieve that through complaining and crying about those people more privileged than me, those higher up the ladder; I did it through hard work and focussing on consistent self-improvement over time.

People who aren't privileged should accept that reality, as I did, and do something in their own life to change their own circumstances, and not try to drag other people down to raise themselves up.

magicbastarder

summation: those who come from disadvantaged, under-privileged backgrounds should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and become the top 1% of earners.

or, more seriously, what IN HOLY HELL are you talking about 'dragging people down' for? what you posted is a complete non-sequitir in relation to the topic that opened this thread. i think i am beginning to see what the issue is, many of the people who are objecting so much seem to think their own specific situaton is what should inform the topic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012304#Comment_121012304

The principle is the same.

When the debate is had over slavery and white privilege etc., the argument from many is that "reparations" are required to undo the damage caused.

It's entirely economic; it's fundamentally about envy.

When someone says that another person is privileged, what they're really saying is that they're jealous of them.

magicbastarder

Ah yes, the typical Irish* reaction. When I'm doubt, fall back on the accusation of begrudgery.

*I couldn't help myself, your honour.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012271#Comment_121012271

Again - I'm not sure who or what these arguments are directed at, because they're not addressing the issue at all.

Is anybody here saying that disadvantaged people should complain and cry about their situations? That they shouldn't try and raise themselves up or focus on self-improvement?

What is being said is that people who are privileged should accept that reality, and be aware that some things that are easy for them or don't even warrant a thought for them, might be different for other people.

Unflushable Turd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011794#Comment_121011794

it isnt ignorant at all.

If you want to go back 200 years, then fine. While Irish Catholics were discriminated against, black people were being rounded up, shipped to the other side of the world and sold as slaves to the highest bidder, and please don't give me any of this bullshit about the red legs and "we were treated worse than the blacks".

magicbastarder

The poster above appears to explicitly assume that someone reaching a hand down from above to pull someone below up; is indistinguishable from someone below reaching up and pulling the person above down to their level.

It's not a zero sum game.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012356#Comment_121012356

What is being said is that people who are privileged should accept that reality, and be aware that some things that are easy for them or don't even warrant a thought for them, might be different for other people.

That bold part also applies to taller people; people who aren't obese; more athletic people; people who weren't born with a fatal disease; people who are rich; people who aren't rich but are for whatever reason happier than richer people; natural beauty; IQ; and so on and so on and so on.

Privilege is omnipresent through society and it is absurd to focus on 1 singular example and pretend that no other examples exist. Or that the example you cite somehow has greater primacy than all the others.

It's actually a normal and healthy feature of society and it can never, ever be eliminated.

magicbastarder

it is absurd to focus on 1 singular example

yet people like you are the ones with the laser focus on that one example which was given in the NCCA doc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012391#Comment_121012391

No, other posters throughout this thread have consistently brought up every other major example of privilege in society.

Do you accept that these other forms of privilege exist in society?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012356#Comment_121012356

In this discussion, "privilege" is being discussed as a political concept - on a Current Affairs forum.

So its not just a question of having empathy for people in different situations and with different abilities. Something which I am happy to do normally.

Ultimately (leftists hope) concrete political action will be taken to re-organise social systems and introduce weights and balances, artificial advantages and disadvantages directed by them.

Given the larger context in which leftists use demagoguery, attempts to inflame debate and whip up emotion and strife, even violence - including in the US, riots - they do not deserve any sort of benefit of the doubt.

So if you wonder why hostility and defensiveness are the reaction to what you're saying, now you know.

Also the sheer awkwardness of importing a foreign-origin political ideology into a local context throws people. You mentioned guilt upthread. Guilt for what?

magicbastarder

wait; either people are focussing on one particular example, like you state, or they are not. what one particular example were you referring to?

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012382#Comment_121012382

In some situations it is good if normal sized/fit people take into account how something might be different and more difficult for an obese person. In some situations it's good if tall people recognise that something easy for them is hard for short people. In some situations it's good if straight people recognise that situations might be easier for them than gay people.

I'm struggling to understand why there's such vehement opposition to this is. Is it that you think you'll be constantly taken advantage of? The point is not to eliminate things, but just make things a bit nicer for everyone where possible.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012409#Comment_121012409

The very title of this thread, which hones in on "Irish white privilege".

What we're saying is that any objective assessment of "privilege" must necessarily include an assessment of every other feature of privilege in society, or else the analysis is flawed to begin with.

But I reassert the question I asked you earlier:

Do you accept that these other forms of privilege exist in society?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012406#Comment_121012406

Given the larger context in which leftists use demagoguery, attempts to inflame debate and whip up emotion and strife, even violence - including in the US, riots - they do not deserve any sort of benefit of the doubt.

wait, this is leftists in the states doing this? a genuine 'not sure if serious' moment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012417#Comment_121012417

What do you want these people to do about it?

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012214#Comment_121012214

Why not say homophobe too and I would have the full bingo card 😀

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012427#Comment_121012427

To be mindful of people around them, and so avoid putting others in difficult situations by presuming their experience of the world is the same as everyone else's.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012454#Comment_121012454

I'm not talking about you!

I agreed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012466#Comment_121012466

Barring a tiny number of exceptions, that's what people are currently doing and have largely always done.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012194#Comment_121012194

I’m not breaking it down to anything. I am saying you think of yourself as having privilege, I don’t. I’m just a person who sees people as people, no matter their economic backgrounds or social status. If I like someone I like someone. If I dislike someone I dislike someone.

privilege is a mental state, it means “you” think you are better than someone else.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012469#Comment_121012469

I know,,,,, it’s a joke!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310097/irish-white-privilege-yeah

Did any one look at the questions in the survey. Not exactly plain english are they.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012487#Comment_121012487

Doh!

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011720#Comment_121011720

I've had a fair few women get very angry because I rebuffed their advances. Does that count?

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011720#Comment_121011720

Are you a man? Because I've been pinched in the arse by many women through the years, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Statistically men have a far higher chance of being jumped/mugged randomly than women too.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012382#Comment_121012382

You will get there eventually.

Its like a right handed designer of a consumer product considering it may be used by a left handed person. In the design process they should consider their design and does their right handedness in designing the product impact its functionality for a left handed person. If it does, are there any modifications that would improve the functionality for a left handed person without impacting the overall product. Will there be some residual disadvantage for the left handed person and if there is have you made every effort to mitigate it before deciding the residual disadvantage was acceptable.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012542#Comment_121012542

What relevance does you being pinched in the arse have to the experience of women being pinched in the arse? Because you have experienced it women should feel fine about it?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012484#Comment_121012484

privilege, noun: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012595#Comment_121012595

"I'm guessing never, because you aren't female" might be the relevant part. And once again, another poster who likes to put words in peoples mouths. I've never said or implied anything as such. It's so lowly to try and twist what I've said into what you're claiming I said or implied.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012562#Comment_121012562

Lol

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012624#Comment_121012624

Laugh all you want. The real hilarity is those losing their **** about a single word in a definition in an appendix to a 20 page document

batman_oh

More divisive nonsense to create even more victims and resentment. Look how brilliantly it's going for America.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012582#Comment_121012582

White male is just 1 card.

And thats the only one we ever hear about.

Why are we discussing that 1 card in isolation. Continually.

that's a damn good question. it was just an *example* in the NCCA glossary but people are talking about it like it's *not an example*. people have decided that that one example means that's what the curriculum will be about, i.e. white privilege. but it just means that they'll be teaching kids that if they find themselves in a position where they are in some way in a privileged position, they'll be able to be an ally to those who are not.

i mean, it's just the essence of charity and a whole host of other welcome behaviours. but people are losing their minds over the choice of white or male *as examples*. they were not going to list every single possible example in what was just a glossary explaining 'allyship'.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012647#Comment_121012647

None of this is in isolation though, it's one of the tenants of an ideology that's been spreading like wildfire in the West for the last ten years or so, an ideology that claims to do good but often seems to do bad; it claims that it unifies and uplifts but really all it does it push people apart, whether that be on racial ground or gender grounds.

magicbastarder

As I asked earlier, if they were to give an example, what do you suggest they should have used instead?

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012271#Comment_121012271

Not dissimilar to my own story. I worked 25 hours a week to put myself through college - hard graft washing cars whilst doing a full-time degree. I worked in badly paid jobs but rinsed them for training and upskilling, and I took every opportunity I could. I moved jobs not for salary, but for experience and I occasionally took pay cuts or additional workloads to get the skills I needed. Nothing was handed to me and I made the right career decisions when many thought I was nuts.

There is privilege in this world, but many who are deemed to fall into the 'white male privilege' bracket are just people who went out and worked their asses off to get to where they are. I'm all for equality, but equality doesn't require dragging specific groups down. Equality is if someone is willing to put in the hard work, they should be able to prosper irrespective of their gender, race, colour, or creed.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012370#Comment_121012370

It is ignorant. I outlined why.

This isn't a competition about who was treated worse than whom. This is showing that historically, Irish Catholics were discriminated against in this country in a way nobody is discriminated against now (in specific response to the post about historic systemic discrimination carrying forward to today). And we resolved that problem without all this shoe-gazing guff about everybody realising their privilege.

(And I always feel it worthwhile pointing out to the slave point that black people were rounded up in Africa by other black people, and sold by black people to white people. A lot of black people did very well out of the slave trade. Just a point that gets forgotten about quite regularly)

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012014#Comment_121012014

Absolutely. It gets away from the tired cliche we see in America where white privilege is the only one you ever hear about.

And I would prefer we stop this daft nonsense altogether; we've managed for decades without it.

(I note you ignored the idea of female privilege, so I presume you agree with that?)

magicbastarder

i am continually enjoying the irony of watching people discussing a topic where they're trying to teach kids to be more self aware, displaying a complete lack of self-awareness about what is being discussed. it's not about you!

they're not saying 'if you're white and male, you're automatically privileged no matter what'. it's about teaching kids that in situations where being male is a privilege, to recognise that and help others.

you'd swear that they'll be telling kids 'even though you might be piloting a yacht through the indian ocean, and surrounded by somali pirates, remember your privilege'. i know some people want to think that's what going to be taught, but despite their protestations, they want to present *themselves* as the victims in this. which is a glorious irony.

'i am a self made man who came from nothing but struggle through many challenges, and the greatest hardship i faced was the very thought that kids might be taught to help each other'. give me strength.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012740#Comment_121012740

(I note you ignored the idea of female privilege, so I presume you agree with that?)

i am not a machine; the thread is over 200 posts long, so stop trying to set up a strawman.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012638#Comment_121012638

A single word can be significant and word choice tells us what to expect. These political concepts are not at all new.

Most people now are pretty hardened to this kind of thing after years of being exposed to it in US and UK media. They are not political naifs in taking leftwing talk about kindness and empathy at face value.

You have not helped to diffuse cynicism on this thread because your replies to rapidash and NSAman were patronising. Are you Mr Empathy or a man filled with intellectual pride?

But I wish you no ill will. Go in peace.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012755#Comment_121012755

Have you actually read what is referenced? Do you really think the Draft Senior Cycle Social, Personal and Health Education (SPHE) Specification has that much influence? Can you look at the below, the only sections in anyway connected to the discussion here, and identify what the problem actually is?

Unflushable Turd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012729#Comment_121012729

a lot of black people did nicely out of the slave trade, just as many Irish people did nicely out of the famine. I'm not sure what the point is?

no, it isn't a competition, nor does admitting that white privilege is a thing diminishes the oppression that some Irish people suffered. Being white is an advantage, regardless of your accent or the particular way you choose to worship.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012841#Comment_121012841

Er I am not going to walk you through the way in which such concepts like 'allyship' and 'white privilege' exist in a wider cultural concext. They're not standalone concepts that the SPHE has just invented.

Sorry but nobody believes that leftists like yourself do not understand how leftism operates throughout culture, however much you feign ignorance. You are hoping that non-leftists do no understand this but as you can see from this thread they really do. Therefore they won't be taking what you say at face value.

I can't wish you luck in your quest for political power.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012861#Comment_121012861

"Being white is an advantage, regardless of your accent or the particular way you choose to worship"

Imagine saying that to black people