Irish White Privilege......Yeah

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020666#Comment_121020666

advocating “ not being a dick” isn’t what’s going on here re_ “ white privilege” and SPHE

not being a dick doesn’t require ideological instruction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020629#Comment_121020629

No, they're not.

Secularism left in its wake a vacuum, and that vacuum has very much been filled by the same malignant faith-based system of subscribe or be cast out as a sinful heretic. And I say that as an atheist myself.

It's absolutely consistent. Throwing around dismissals, as you have just done, is nothing more than an empty cathartic slogan.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021214#Comment_121021214

It’s also aping the church of old by attempting to “ get em young “ by inserting this stuff into the educational curriculum

Akrasia

There are atheists who reject god because they have carefully assessed the evidence based on the arguments supplied by theists

And there are atheists who reject god because they reject the authority associated with the prevailing god.

The latter conflate religion with the old order, so are always looking for the 'new' religion to support or oppose

The former have interrogated the ideas of religions and critically assess each idea on a case by case basis

I am an atheist because I take all arguments no matter how far fetched, and assess them.

thegame983

When your arguments hold no water you must indoctrinate the children.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005078#Comment_121005078

Lucky you.

Not everyone gets it easy or been brain washed

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023964#Comment_121023964

Pretty much every settled irish white person gets it easier than a traveller does in the vast majority of common every day situations.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025288#Comment_121025288

Going by headstones, cars and houses lot of them have they sure had better life than many living here. Better luck to them if they can get it. I can only dream.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020209#Comment_121020209

I disagree.

Disparaging commentary about 'white males' is ubiquitous throughout culture, including on boards itself.

It’s common knowledge the entire Law and Order franchise replaces black criminals taken from the real cases stripped from headlines with white characters for the shows.

If liberal political and cultural discourse really were free of hostility, blame, recriminations and inducements of guilt then you might have a chance of being believed.

It isn't, so you don't.

growleaves

@Akrasia

Also 'we' (you and I) do not set up the global economy to funnel money away from developing countries.

Financial colonisation mainly benefits elite billionaires and the political class - as does cheap labour from mass migration.

TomTomTim

This is the kind of toxic sludge you get when you accept such concepts

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/08/22/no-lucy-letby-was-not-enabled-by-whiteness/

https://twitter.com/SholaMos1/status/1693505117830467833

There's you "inclusion", there's your "kinder society"

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023485#Comment_121023485

Same as any faith based religion

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025288#Comment_121025288

Travellers don’t have to work, pay a mortgage , acquire a basic level of education, tax or insure cars , pay income tax , dispose of rubbish, look after their pets to any minimal standard, the list goes on

travellers live cradle to grave being carried by the tax payer

yet some people have the audacity to class them as victims?

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027270#Comment_121027270

And have every orifice of power in the state willing to excuse their actions on the grounds of oppression. I can't say I know many settled people with such privilege.

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027903#Comment_121027903

While there is plenty of awful stuff ‘tolerated’ within and on behalf of the traveller community,might be worth noting that settled Irish people do have the ‘privilege ‘ of a much longer life expectancy, by about 15 years for men and about 10 for women.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027903#Comment_121027903

I think some people are (deliberately!) confusing a deliberate choice of lifestyle and behaviour as some sort of oppression - although we can partly thank Enda Kenny for that one!

Even where these alleged victims are given the same opportunities as the rest of us, they mostly either reject it or abuse it and make others around them suffer in the process.

The only ones who can change that are Travellers themselves by making different choices, and by refusing to tolerate such behaviours within their own communities.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028877#Comment_121028877

That's on Travellers themselves by virtue of the life they choose to live and decisions they choose to make.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028877#Comment_121028877

That's a conscious choice due a "way of life" that they themselves consider their own privilege to enjoy.

Your point doesn't have any merit.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027270#Comment_121027270

Your post sums up your settled privilege perfeclty.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029087#Comment_121029087

i cant even tell if that is satire or not, what a time.....

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029087#Comment_121029087

You earned you’re degree in social studies

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028877#Comment_121028877

Who would have thought that the traveller lifestyle wasn’t conducive to longevity

1800_Ladladlad

A Nigerian woman with French citizenship claimed an Irish homeless man has white privilege. The woman living in Dublin spoke with the Independent.ie and on the PatKenny show on NewTalk radio, both within the same day, about how she worries about her safety in Dublin as aggression now seems normalised going on to express how ”recent encounters" have left her "shaken”, fears "ending up in hospital" due to her skin colour. She has no evidence to back up that claim. She's not at any more risk than anyone else because of her ethnicity. Many women were or still are afraid to walk the streets of the city centre as a result of the number of anti-social behaviours, assaults and robberies taking place but this applies to men and women regardless of skin colour.

In that same NT interview, she went on to speak about how she was the victim of “white privilege” during an interaction with a homeless man who asked her for spare change. She refused to give him money (which was her right) but in response, she alleged the homeless man told her she should leave the country. This is the same interview she began by telling us of a time she was once in a cinema when kids were throwing popcorn at her, explaining how they touched her hair or her identity as she put it. Of this went unchallenged by Pat Kenny and will be lapped up by the less intelligent yes but the woman framing the incident as ‘white privilege’ on national radio seems calculated.

An African woman who has been afforded maximum privilege by being given a national platform to make unsubstantiated claims, someone who has been handed a series of opportunities based on her colour, DEI, race quotas or not. 

A Google search shows me:

• Current Affairs Radio 1 Intern on RTE’s Liveline for 2022 
• Accepted into the 2023 John Schofield Trust Early Career and Apprentice Mentoring scheme. She’ll be mentored by Lisa McNally, Ireland Producer at Sky News.

Her bio ... “Sylvia has developed a keen interest in human rights, social issues and humanitarian actions;” 

Do you see now?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029234#Comment_121029234

Most people don’t get to hop on the victim industry hustler train, she is indeed privileged

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121026973#Comment_121026973

There's a lot of this.

A Brazilian woman searches for space to offer yoga classes to minority women right? So she chose to leave Brazil with 56% (120million) of people are Afro-Brazilian, the largest Black population in the Americas, to come to a country that is majority white

• “My dream is going to a room that will be only Black and ethnic minorities, and we don’t need to be worried about, ‘Oh, is someone doing handstands?’”

It doesn't surprise me that after working with NGOs, she got involved in diversity & inclusion racket and activism, and graduated with a degree in Social Science...They never recognize the reality that they're in the land of a long-established ancient people. Everywhere is just another place to toss their tantrums about, she’s even been platformed in the Business Post Magazine “asking” “is the Irish health system biased against women from ethnic minority backgrounds?” The arrogance of the elite-backed interloper. Can you imagine an Irish woman seeking white-only spaces saying ”my dream is going to a room that will be only white and European”… people like this want to discriminate based on race, color and gender. the one no doubt she see's as having "white privilege"

The fundamental problem with introducing concepts such as white privilege into society is that it increases racial tensions.

For example, it encourages people to first assess a person on the basis of their skin colour. Not their character or personality, but their skin colour over which they have no control.

Let's say a black person was treated unfairly in a situation. They may then attribute that rudeness to folk with "white privilege" even if race had nothing to do with it. The same rude person may be rude to everyone, irrespective of skin colour.

So yes, it exacerbates racial tensions even when it hides behind unity as the reason to promote it. It achieves the exact opposite of what it sets out to achieve. So whilst the intentions may be good, the results are bad. Just take a look at the United States.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029622#Comment_121029622

Just take a look at the United States.

I’m looking, and racial tensions were rife there long before the concept of privilege as it’s understood in academia was ever applied. A minority of white people determined the laws that applied to people of other ethnic backgrounds. It was because of the racial discrimination which existed that the concept of privilege came about, precisely because the people who developed the idea we’re looking at the way society was structured in ways that benefited some, and caused difficulty for others based on their characteristics, like skin colour as an example.

It doesn’t encourage people to examine skin colour or any other characteristics, it encourages people to judge a situation more judiciously, and identify ways in which they benefit from social structures that may cause difficulties for others, and develop ways to address those issues in order to to reduce the difficulties which may be encountered by other people. It’s basically encouraging people to be more aware of the needs of others. That’s all there is to it. There are other ways and means of achieving the same goals, and the concept of privilege is just one of them.

Concepts like social justice and social awareness have been on the SPHE curriculum a long time now, and they are taught in many other ways through different means in Irish schools already. That is to say the inclusion of teachers teaching and students learning about the concept of privilege is not new.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029622#Comment_121029622

It’s designed to politicise everything

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029075#Comment_121029075

My point has merit IMO because a vastly superior quality of life and life expectancy exists for the vast majority of white Irish settled compared to Travellers without any specific action on our part. some posters were claiming travellers had an advantage due to selective policing and social apologists etc . The fact remains that the average white Irish settled person will realise enormous advantages compared to Travellers on big ticket items such as life expectancy and quality of life and no amount of free dole/wife beating or Range Rovers bought for cash makes up for that IMO

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025288#Comment_121025288

Travellers outcomes are as a result of travellers choices.

This week we have seen a traveller state that she is the first of her group / wider family to do the LC and continue in education.

Fair play to her.

But her community are at fault, if they are only doing in 2023, what everybody else has been doing since the 1970s.

The schools are open, there are endless supports and grants, and yet they refuse to attend.

I am friendly with an EWO, he is not busy in work, but he tells me that the EWO in Longford is killed out with work, as there are so many travellers there who don't attend school.

What is unbelievable is blaming society for the outcomes of their own choices!!

Geuze

The traveller life expectancy is shorter, due to the traveller choices.

If I live in poor conditions, and smoke or drink too much, and eat bad food, and engage in feuds and crime, then it's no surprise to anybody that my life expectancy will be less.

tesla_newbie

the belief that grim traveller outcomes ( in various ways ) is the fault of societal prejudice is a progressive article of faith, to question this received wisdom would be to question woke orthodoxy

same with the statistics re_ African Americans and imprisonment, “ all the fault of system prejudice “

heresy to think any other way

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121030658#Comment_121030658

Who’s blaming society for the outcomes of their own choices though?

I’m sure you don’t need your friendly EWO to tell you, to know yourself that traveller children have no choice whatsoever in terms of their education or lack thereof, leading to many of them becoming adults with poor literacy rates, and for those who managed to stick it out in education which doesn’t cater to their needs, they face prejudice and discrimination in further education, housing and employment.

The example of a traveller being the first in her group, or wider family to do the LC and continue on to further education should tell its own story - she has been able to achieve it with the support of people like your friendly EWO, same as Eileen Flynn who is now a Senator - she was the Taoiseach’s nominee, working tirelessly within her own community and with people like your friendly EWO in order to break down the barriers which limit traveller children’s opportunities and outcomes in later life.

Their shorter life expectancy in any case isn’t due to their lifestyle, it’s due to the lack of access to healthcare, which people who aren’t travellers tend to take for granted because it’s just that much easier to access healthcare when one is not a traveller!

That’s not blaming society, it’s pointing to the fact that there are circumstances in which being a traveller means they do not have the same supports and opportunities as people who aren’t travellers, and there’s no good reason they’re deprived of equal access because the same lifestyle choices you’re pointing to among travellers exist within the same society among people who aren’t travellers - we still live longer and have better outcomes than travellers, due to social circumstances which travellers have no control over whatsoever.

I don’t care much for the concept of ‘privilege’ or the framework in which it’s presented, but Jesus basic awareness of the needs of other people isn’t some foreign concept that shouldn’t be part of our education system.

PaoloGotti

“Irish white privilege” is a non-debate. It’s so fcuking obvious to a half wit that such a thing doesn’t exist.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031008#Comment_121031008

I’m not going to comment on whether or not anyone’s a half-wit, but the context is we’re talking about educating children here, and the examples given such as being white, or Irish, or male, are used in the material to demonstrate examples of the concept:

"Allyship skills: refers to the actions, behaviours, and practices used to support, advocate and collaborate with others, in support of justice and equity. Allyship involves recognising and using one’s privileged status (for example as white or male or Irish person) to support individuals from minority identity groups."

Are there circumstances where not being white, or Irish or male are a barrier to being treated as an equal? There most certainly are, and that’s the whole point of the lesson, is to encourage children to think about the needs of others. If children can understand it, there’s no reason an adult shouldn’t be able to get their heads around the concept.

nullzero

Surely we can educate children to be empathetic without using their skin colour as a motivator.

Thinking about it logically telling white children they have to think about other peoples needs implies that non white children that the requirement to be empathetic doesn't apply to the in the same way.

All this is based in the internalised racism of activists. The rest of us can just get along with people regardless.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031008#Comment_121031008

Problem is this country is full of half wits...an amount of them already have been convinced they are oppressed...turns out they were privileged all along, no wonder so many of them don't up from down.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031175#Comment_121031175

There’s no using anyone’s skin colour as a motivator though? They’re just examples to demonstrate the concept, they’re for helping the teacher to understand the concept and deliver it to the children in the classroom in a way that they can relate to.

It doesn’t imply anything only what you’re inferring from it, that it’s telling children anything because they’re white, or telling other children anything because they aren’t. It’s not telling children anything other than simply being aware of the needs of others. Fairly simple logic in any case. It’s why they also used example characteristics like sex and nationality - it doesn’t follow from that they’re suggesting anyone needs to be empathic towards French prostitutes for example, or that French prostitutes don’t have to think of the children! 😂

The whole point of the exercise is teaching children how to get along with people, so that they don’t become like some adults who see internalised racism or whatever else in what is a fairly easy to grasp concept.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031228#Comment_121031228

Except there's other, better ways to teach kids to be nice to people.

This is motivated by a particular ideology who's motivation is to create division not combat it.

That should be self evident unless of course it's being observed by somebody who is attempting to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013897#Comment_121013897

Yes agree .

Also the fact that the op misrepresents what is actually in the suggested curriculum in the first place , taking an example and making a whole thread about the outrage of the suggestion of it .

Non event that hasn't even happened ... generating 12 pages of outrage and us against them :/

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031353#Comment_121031353

That’s a ridiculous assertion given it was the OP who started the thread having taken offence where it’s clear none is intended!

Sure, there’s DIFFERENT ways to achieve the same goal, it’s not even about teaching children to be nice to people, it’s about teaching children to be aware of the needs of others. It’s a small part of a much broader philosophy, no different than what we, or, well, I was taught anyway through the ideology and philosophy of Catholic Education.

This is a philosophy or ideology which doesn’t use religion, to impart the essence of the exact same concepts as are taught and encouraged and inculcated and indoctrinated in 90% of Irish schools already, and have been taught for decades!

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031405#Comment_121031405

Lets indulge the assumption of the OP then.

Do you believe white Irish people are inherently privileged?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031467#Comment_121031467

That’s not what is suggested by the concept though. The characteristic of being Irish was being used as an example of demonstrating how the characteristic of nationality can cause difficulties for people who are NOT Irish.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031494#Comment_121031494

So you're refusing to answer the question?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031510#Comment_121031510

It’s not that I’m refusing to answer your question, your question has nothing to do with the concept. The whole point of it is that the concept is relative - NOT being Irish can be difficult for people who aren’t Irish. Because I’m Irish, I don’t even think about being Irish. I do however acknowledge the fact that for other people who aren’t Irish, they can face difficulties which I don’t, because I’m Irish.

I just wouldn’t use the term ‘privilege’ to describe that phenomenon, because privilege implies something that is earned - I haven’t earned being Irish, just like I haven’t earned being white or being a man. It doesn’t mean I’m incapable of acknowledging that other people will have difficulties where I don’t, and it’s important to be aware of that fact and to assist in reducing those barriers which cause the difficulties.

The most basic example I can give you is that the IT guy in the office decided to place all the monitors on the right of our desks. This presented a difficulty for me which he couldn’t possibly have been aware of - I have no vision in my right eye, so I couldn’t see the monitor where it was placed. Simple solution - place the monitor on the left side of my desk, problem solved, no big deal.

That’s all is meant by the concept, rather than making out it’s any more than it actually is.

gameoverdude

It's not even a basic example. IT guy doesn't make the decision.

Simple solution is to move the monitor yourself.

Ridiculous example.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031599#Comment_121031599

IT guy makes the decision when he’s the guy that bolts the monitor to the desk!

Of course you missed the point though - he put all the monitors on the right of all the desks by default, which would’ve been fine for me too if I wasn’t blind in my right eye. It’s just easier for me if the monitor is on the left.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031578#Comment_121031578

So would you be of the opinion that the posters who early in in this thread asserted that they felt privileged due to their being white and Irish were likely assigning their feelings of privilege incorrectly? For example I would contend that their privilege stems from their being from affluent backgrounds rather than their skin tone or nationality.

I understand that you're arguing the validity of the OP's proposal but the scope of the discussion ended up extending beyond that hat was cited by the OP.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031666#Comment_121031666

No, tbh, I don’t have any opinion of their opinions either way. Like I said - I don’t care for the concept of ‘privilege’. I understand it, I understand it’s aims and it’s purpose, but I don’t care for it is all. That’s why I’m indifferent to what way they feel privileged by being Irish and what not, it’s obvious that the intent of what they mean is that they feel privileged relative to others who are NOT Irish, who experience difficulties in Irish society because of not being Irish.

I understand what you mean too though, but I’d suggest it was more the product of an education rather than affluence. In that context, education is the characteristic to be aware of relative to others who have not had the benefit of education, and to reduce the barriers which prevent them from having equal access to education that those posters have benefited from.

Whether or not they’re affluent or haven’t a pot to piss in, I have no idea.

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031067#Comment_121031067

I hate the idea because the next logical step is that a white Irish male should feel guilty and attempt to disempower themselves.