Are serious insults illegal?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032342#Comment_121032342

How thin must anyone’s skin be to imagine the world is fcuked when people are convicted of public order offences? 🤔

Accusing others of being thin-skinned when a person engages in that sort of histrionics is quare dodgy to be fair.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032344#Comment_121032344

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032346#Comment_121032346

I'll leave the double act to debate among themself.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032348#Comment_121032348

There’s no double act at all, the OP asked a question in the opening post based on a scenario where a person was insulted in a public place and asked has anyone ever been to Court over something like it.

It was a simple question as questions around here go, and only required a simple answer, no need for a drawn out debate on the issue.

GSBellew

No is the simple answer to the question.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032350#Comment_121032350

I know some people love a good argument on boards but this one was strange as it seemed some people think they should be allowed say very hurtful and insulting things to people and you are just thin skinned if you think its not ok to call someone the ugliest person they have ever seen.

con747

FFS when did After Hours turn into Bible Class.

bejeezus

Keep doing it and it’s harassment. One off? It’s extremely rude, hurtful and I’m sure you’d have a case, however weak, for something! I’m sorry. Don’t have much of a clue about law except that repeated insults of that nature: harassment.

bejeezus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032344#Comment_121032344

Yeah. I’m on the side of defending the right to look different, whether intentional or not, in public and not be harassed. Dear Jesus, where do we get them ?? !

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032350#Comment_121032350

Based on what you've argued, there was indeed a need for a debate on the issue.

Brid Hegarty

It may be true that this guy deserved to be brought up in court over such an offence. There are plenty of illegal things that one could be brought up over that would cause the victim less grief than this girl experienced. But this one would be considered a "he said she said" thing and therefore no one would want to go near it. Very hard to know if the victim is being honest about the wording, or what else might have been said beforehand even if they are being honest. In this case, if it came to it, there'd be cameras and (as far as I know audio recordings) on the bus that could prove he had made that remark.

Lets not forget that there'd also need to be a whole lot more judges in our country if you could bring someone to court over such an instance.

blackbox

When I was a kid, children were taught "Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never harm you".

Seems to be forgotten now.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032532#Comment_121032532

I know what you are saying but everyone isn't the same, it would be water off a ducks back with me but what about someone with really low self esteem and maybe depression or anxiety. I heard of someone local being humiliated about her teeth before to her face while working in a shop, I was disgusted when I heard it, a young girl doing her job insulted in front of people for no reason but a cheap laugh at her expense.

Incidents like this can cause issues like social anxiety down the road which can make the persons life hell.

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031648#Comment_121031648

I’ve pretty much said the same in my post

dxhound2005

If it needs action because it happened on a bus, it should need action if it happens online as well. If the person came on here and wrote that they saw the ugliest woman in the world on a bus, that would be illegal if saying it to the woman is illegal. The OP is concerned about it being said on a bus, but they themselves wrote equally gross remarks about women who undergo cosmetic surgery. Double standards.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032696#Comment_121032696

It should never be illegal to tell someone what you think of them, good or bad.

I play my cards fairly close to my chest, but I reserve the right to tell someone they’re an asshole. I’ll fight for that right.

what you said is nothing like what I said.

You see a person you think is ugly walking down the street, you think its perfectly ok to walk over to them and tell them they are ugly?

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032698#Comment_121032698

The 2 instances are completely different and you know they are. one is targeting a person to their face and humiliating them in person.

The other is saying something about no person in particular.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031906#Comment_121031906

That's a good response... the first one, not the second. It isn't often that I read something interesting on boards anymore.

coolbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310979/are-serious-insults-illegal

A court appearance for an insult? Do you have any concept of free speech at all?

JupiterKid

An insult should never be illegal.

Anyone proposing this idiocy - and a massive restriction on human rights and free speech - is an intolerant zealot, although they would see themselves as some kind of “right on” champion for minority rights. The type of person that constantly seeks to be offended on behalf of others all the time.

Pathetic. People really need to have thicker skin. Life must be very very sheltered for some.

Iguarantee

Making an expression of your opinion an illegal act is not right, in my opinion.

Nobody should make unsolicited comments to someone, like what the original poster said, but they shouldn’t be arrested for it either.

That being said, I firmly believe that in Irish society nowadays, people have a distinct lack of accountability for their actions, particularly what they say.

I’ve a white collar job and the way some people speak to others in a work environment is shocking.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031439#Comment_121031439

Not always that eazy to just get “thicker skin.” Comments can vary from minor to really offensive and hurtful.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033493#Comment_121033493

No need for Gardai or arrests if someone wants to go the legal route. They can take a civil case for defamation.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033419#Comment_121033419

Basically what you are saying is the example I gave is ok. id rather be "thin skinned" than be ok with someone being insulted like that for no reason.

say a friend or relative was insulted the way that woman on the bus was, and they soon after took their own life after becoming depressed after the insult, when you hear about it, you would just say "oh she should have had thicker skin ah well". ya right.

Oscar_Madison

I don’t think it’s always about the words- the intention likely has a legal implication - causing a public nuisance or similar might well be the legal charges.

If a guard was on that bus and in earshot , would the name caller have been arrested? I think there’s probably a law on the statute books that would cover it.

And I wouldn’t discount an arrest for sexual harassment either - whether or not a conviction would follow is another matter but I don’t see it beyond the bounds of possibility at all - it’s unwanted attention related to a persons appearance and it could be argued the motivation was sexual even though the wording wasn’t necessarily so.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033933#Comment_121033933

That's all very vague. You wouldn't discount something. You don't think it is beyond the bounds of possibility. There's probably a law. You don't know if a conviction would follow. It could be argued.

Anything could be argued, but you would want a sounder basis that those musings.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034196#Comment_121034196

Plenty of people have found themselves in front of a judge with “vague” - sorry I’m not up to your standard of legality - last time I checked this was still a discussion forum not a bloody legal competition

Tavrin Callas

I'm just about as thin skinned and over sensitive as you can get, and if something happened to me, like described in the OP, I'd honestly be floored and would find it difficult to recover.

Having said that, I don't think it should be illegal. You can't, and shouldn't legislate for hurt feelings as it's far too hard to define. Some people are just assholes.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035056#Comment_121035056

what is the difference in calling a black person the N word and calling another person the ugliest person they have ever seen? both are hurtful comments said to cause offence.

Tavrin Callas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035156#Comment_121035156

I'm not sure it's actually illegal to call someone by the N word either. Either way, anyone who says either is an asshole of the highest order.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031439#Comment_121031439

If someone said your mad would this be defamation and I don't mean mad in the banter meaning of the word.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035174#Comment_121035174

I think we can all agree here. Lowlife behaviour.

con747

A quote from the OP in a previous thread. Also don't forget the quote in post #25 of this thread.

"Are you saying most men are ugly and most women are stunners? Id say its 50/50, at least men dont use make up to hide the fact they might be ugly."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281886/why-is-it-always-the-woman-giving-out#latest

bejeezus

I was particularly struck by Tommy Tiernan’s sneery attitude to campaigner Sinead Burke’s stories of being stopped and laughed at by random strangers. At the time I thought this is the attitude of a man used to looking as if he fit in. But who is actually a bloody arsehole tbf. A lot of the posters are saying you need thicker skin, but have these people regularly been called names by random strangers and know how intimidating and scary it can be??

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033528#Comment_121033528

I spent every day in school getting bullied, so I know what it's like. While the sticks and stones saying was the go to at the time it wasn't great at working out the feelings. However, I feel I'm stronger as a person now because of that approach. If everyone had bent to my cries and told me how special I was and everyone else is wrong and I'm right then I'd probably still be very soft now if not swinging.

I know everyone is different, but the current world is making everyone out to be special, when the fact is 99.9999999999999% of us are nothing special. Humans will always be horrible, we're led by greed and selfishness. We need to be teaching kids how to overcome words, instead of creating safe spaces everywhere for them to live their lives without strife.

Trying to get someone arrested for breach of the peace for a simple, single insult, will not work. If the person who said the insult continues, it changes into something else where a breach of the peace may be acted on (BOTP is a very watery offence anyway), but usually when someone is going off on one they're breaching more than the peace so can be dealt with. A single comment directly to the person, not shared in writing anywhere, and nothing more is just not an offence. Continous insulting can be harrassment.

Re: the N word. While the word itself is not illegal to use, it's usually only used in hate type scenarios (it's 2023, comedy is dead so it can only be used in hate type scenarios now... and maybe historical films but I'd say the jury is out on that too). So a non-black person using the N word towards a black person (and whatever shades are included) is usually in breach of one of the protected characteristics. Calling someone ugly is not.

Pretty sure you could call Ariana Grande the N word and be ok, cuz she white!

bejeezus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035916#Comment_121035916

Yeah. We aren’t special. I don’t believe anyone is. But we are all at least supposed to be born equal. Are you as hard on yourself as the bullies were on you ? I genuinely hope not.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035950#Comment_121035950

Oh I've given up trying. The world* doesn't want what I am, so why bother trying. I did try, I was miserable. Now I don't try and I'm less miserable. I understand now that the bullies were just people with their own issues trying to... actually, no, my bullies were and still are cnuts of the highest order and I really couldn't care less about any of them. Some have died, yay! But school is just like every job; you make "friends" in a sea of people and then you'll likely never see them again once you've left. I have 2 friends left from school, and that's only because we're so laid back that we don't need to keep in contact to remain friends.

And while we are most likely born equal, ie: simply born, we are not equal once we are born. We are categorised by where and when we were born, we're molded by parents who may be brilliant or terrible. Our opinions are formed due to those around us, which is a lottery. Some people have far better chances and opportunities, usually those with no money related concerns. Fashion wants everyone to look the same, and if you don't fit the mold then you're not included. And on and on and on...

So I wouldn't say I'm hard on myself, I just don't have expectations anymore. Hard to fail a dream if you don't have one! I got sick of failing, and now I don't fail as I don't try, so that's a win to me. Easier at least, and shur there's less than 50 years left in me so won't be long now. I'm happy out in my little bubble, other people seem to have an issue with that though...

bejeezus

I actually agree with a lot of your argument as posted above. Anyhow, I’m wishing you the best as I too went through a lot of crap and I’m still working my way out of it so to speak.

bejeezus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035332#Comment_121035332

Maybe I’m mad-and there is a possibility I am- but I think we all have something attractive about us. Even the plainest of faces can light up and be magnetic.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035991#Comment_121035991

Your not mad, everybody is equal and should be treated equal no matter of looks/skin colour/sexual orientation or anything else that offends some people. The fact the thread is about calling a woman ugly and looking at some of the OP's previous comments goes to show they are a hypocrite. I was arguing the fact it would be ludicrous to be bringing someone to court for saying someone is ugly.

Zico

The point of civilisation is that we agree on a common set of rules of engagement with one another.

What is acceptable changes over time and new rules or laws are set.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036050#Comment_121036050

I was arguing the fact it would be ludicrous to be bringing someone to court for saying someone is ugly.

If anyone were being brought to Court for it, I’m certain Gardaí at that point wouldn’t care whether they thought it was ludicrous or otherwise tbh. It’s equally absurd to be thinking anyone is even remotely interested in having their appearance commented on by some loony toon.

If it were me and twas a fella gettin’ up in my face, I’d give ‘em a slap in the chops - toughen ‘em up a bit.

Pope Frank makes a reasonable argument:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-30838667

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035950#Comment_121035950

We are not born equal.

A kid born to a mother who has has good nutrition, environment and sleep during the pregnancy has a huge number of advantages compared to a kid born a drug or alcohol addict. And that's without considering genetic predispositions.

Calling someone stupid or ugly to their face is rude, for sure.

But if the feedback was solicited, I'd still prefer the rude truth to a dishonest lie.

bejeezus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036235#Comment_121036235

I don’t mind honesty. It is crucial. However, but a fact can be presented in many ways. Speaking the truth aggressively to someone’s face?? Against that! It is cruel and unnecessary. And like I said before, I don’t believe anyone is actually ever ugly. It’s like calling someone a freak! It’s childish and grotesque.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035332#Comment_121035332

Jesus, you need to get a hobby, going back through my posts to January 😂 and finding a post that has nothing to do with this thread.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036277#Comment_121036277

You need to cop on. It seems to be a trait of yours starting these threads. If you google your Boards name and ugly it comes up fairly quick.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036278#Comment_121036278

what year of my posts are you on now? 🤔

I wouldnt waste my time going back on your posts from last week.

con747

Blocked.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031439#Comment_121031439

While I agree that it can’t be illegal to hurt someone’s feelings, I don’t think it’s helpful just to say “people just need to get thicker skin.” The old adage about sticks and stones is not really true. Even when you know the person making the comment is just a complete dick, it’s still not pleasant, or easy to take.

pgj2015

lol con seemed obsessed with my posts then he blocks me 🤣 there's nowt as queer as folk.

dxhound2005

I can see it from both sides. In fact, it could be argued that there are more than two sides, like the previous suggestion that it could have a sexual element. Whether that is true or not might well possibly come down to a matter of opinion. There could be a law to cover it, but then again that is not a certainty. And if it went to court, it would be speculation as to what the outcome would be. Would a jury be inclined to favour the lady, or would they side with the person who made the remark? Hard to tell in the absence of the full information.