Are serious insults illegal?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036307#Comment_121036307

Exactly! The whole grow a thicker skin stuff is just making excuses for people being dicks. It’s the people being dicks are the cause of the issue, not the people going about their business that they’re looking to provoke. Saying people need to grow a thicker skin is just giving dicks a free pass to think they’re entitled to continue being a dick.

Savetheplanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036309#Comment_121036309

Why would people want to engage with an obvious hypocrite? You never explained why you think it was OK for you to post the posts you did and yet start this thread?

bejeezus

Yes yes and yes!!! Who goes around in their 30s or 40s calling people ugly and a freak? Absolute arseholes is who

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036325#Comment_121036325

I have never or would never insult someone to their face, or behind there back either, end of. That is what the thread is about, stop looking for something that isn't there. what you are saying is because I might say the odd thing on boards that may not seem nice, that I cant believe what I wrote in the OP? stop being petty and either discuss the topic or maybe leave the thread.

Savetheplanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036347#Comment_121036347

It's obvious you wouldn't, you just do it behind a keyboard and behind closed doors and believe because the words didn't come out of your mouth it's acceptable. I'll leave now so and let you get on with it.

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035156#Comment_121035156

Good question.

In a legal sense (im not qualified to say, but I’ll have a go):

Calling someone a racial slur is hate speech as it’s based on their ethnicity.

Calling someone ugly or fat isn’t one of the core targets of discrimination; gender, ethnicity etc.

That’s just a guess!

On another note, my old man was a solicitor, he told me, as an example, that calling someone a “bastard” is slander but calling them a “bloody bastard” isn’t.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036366#Comment_121036366

Its interesting when you think about it because id say being called the ugliest person someone ever saw would be more hurtful and offensive than being called the N word.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036309#Comment_121036309

Someone has been running to the Mods like a little schoolboy, I know it wasn't you though 🤔. At least a hypocrite has been exposed on this thread. Some people say what they think of people straight out, and others say one thing but have a totally different view in private.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036252#Comment_121036252

One person's aggressive is another person's blunt.

I admire your optimism. I've certainly seen very ordinary looking people have flashes of beauty in the right light/angle etc.

But I've equally seen people who I regard as physically unattractive, ie ugly. Sometimes their personality compensates. Sometimes, it doesn't

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310979/are-serious-insults-illegal

the irony in this is delicious.

Insulting people should be illegal.... he is a loser. :P careful what you wish for! :P

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036324#Comment_121036324

Yes nasty comments can ruin a person's self esteem and confidence for years, it's a horrible and nasty thing for people to do.

In saying that people talking about going to the guards or a solicitor about one nasty insult are been naive and silly. Yes it would be a far better world if we could stop people from been d*ckheads but the simple fact is we cannot, we can only hope good people call out d*ckhead behaviour.

If your raising kids you know nasty things will be said to them at some point. Going to the guards for a one off insult will get you nowhere so the next best thing is to teach your child to have some resilience.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036744#Comment_121036744

Watch this space, I have a feeling the laws will change on this matter in years to come, and rightly so in my opinion.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036684#Comment_121036684

oh im so sorry for calling a person who insults strangers like that a loser which they clearly are. no winner is going to behave like that.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036784#Comment_121036784

The law is well established going back to well before the internet. Regarding public utterances, radio and TV and printed publications. Those media outlets are generally well regulated. Some internet users who would not insult others in public seem to feel free to write the most vile things in their role as "keyboard warriors". This is the area of the law which will probably be developed. People need to realise that they are publishers, equal to a newspaper, when they write things in public, and are subject to the same laws.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036347#Comment_121036347

I for one don't believe you. You would not reply to somebody who would insult you? That is why most people insult someone because they feel the other person behaved or said something insulting. Most people will defend themselves automatically rather than just take any assault whether verbal or physical.

I told a guy he forgot his mask during early covid because I thought he simply forgot it. He came running after me yelling about how he didn't believe in the virus and how I was some weak willed sheep. My reply " You kiss your boyfriend with that mouth?" He went into an absolute rage and tried to hit me but wildly missed as I just stepped aside. He fell over and landed heavily and hurt himself and I just walked off.

I have nothing against gay people but I knew what would offend him. Legally he assaulted me by shouting at me.

What do you do when somebody verbally or physically attacks you? Do you just hope you can legally get back at an attacker?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036789#Comment_121036789

The irony in this statement is either intentional or you are supremely unaware of how ridiculous that statement is.

You've stated that you would never insult someone to their face or behind their back, yet are happy to publish your thoughts that people who get cosmetic surgery to look a certain way are "easy".

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031703#Comment_121031703

I'm a little surprised you didn't comment on the next bit in the post:

 thats not even the tip of the ice berg when it comes to how cruel teenage girls are to one another.

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036744#Comment_121036744

I agree that it's a horrible and nasty thing to do, but if it ruins a person's self esteem and confidence for years there was already a pre-existing issue.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039670#Comment_121039670

Or maybe just a constant barrage of insults and bullying from a$$holes over the years? the self esteem issues dont just appear from thin air.

Leg End Reject

What a headmelt of a thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032040#Comment_121032040

Pretending someone said something they didn't say again, Mrs?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036617#Comment_121036617

Why does this have to be said at all? How about people don't say anything about a person's looks to their face, unless it's a compliment? Not sure what an unsolicited "you're ugly" or "you're plain" is supposed to achieve.

The guy who said what was in the opening post is a bully. He got away with it. I'd love if he was penalised for harassment. I know it's fashionable to downplay bullying now but I'm still of the mindset that the bully is responsible, not the victim (to not take offence, or grow a thick skin or whatever shyte gets preached. Wonder if anyone can explain how to "grow a thick skin").

gormdubhgorm

Jayus, OP look up a few defamation articles etc - if you honestly think all 'serious insults' are illegal you are extremely naive. First you assume that one person's serious insult is another person's 'serious' insult. Which is a logical fallacy, a false premise.

You need to realise that away from the law itself context is important, such as satire, and so on.

Also the nub of it is, is such an insult published and republished associating/identifying the woman in question as the 'ugliest woman in the world'. . And does that 'insult' cause grave injury to that person and does it lower them in the estimation of right thinking members of society?

In your example to call someone Ugly is not in itself defamation, it is merely an insult. And it is an opinion that can be argued is subjective. It is not a statement that purports to be a statement of fact, as the 'Ugliest woman in the world' comment was clearly done for exaggerated effect.

In short, in the example above the statement above was not a very nice comment, but it was in no way shape or form 'illegal'.

The women in question is clearly not going be named/easily identified. or henceforth going to be known by all and sundry as the 'ugliest woman in the world' etc.

Savetheplanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310979/are-serious-insults-illegal

I only just noticed you said "Just reading another thread and someone mentioned her friend on a bus in her 20's, some guy told her she was the ugliest women he ever saw." Would you mind posting that link to the thread ?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040729#Comment_121040729

What should be the penalty for calling someone ugly?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040885#Comment_121040885

Read Page 1.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040885#Comment_121040885

The post below, from thread about cosmetic surgery.

I wouldnt even put it down to vanity or self obsession, in most cases I honestly think it comes down to feeling social pressure to look a certain way, whether that pressure is real or imagined. Theres always been beauty standards that women have felt pressure to live up too, in the 90's and early 2000's there was an epidemic of girls and young women with eating disorders because of the pressure to be skinny, then with the kardashians big boobs and bums became the most attractive body type to have.

I remember this change over as I was a skinny girl at the time and feeling so much pressure to put on weight but only in the correct places, people used to tell me to eat a sandwich or comment on my body. Dont underestimate how cruel people can be to one anothers faces and ive no doubt girls and young women feel pressure because people comment on their looks and point out flaws to them.

From when girls are little babies their looks are commented on. Its usually well meaning but it results in allot of girls having their self worth wrapped up in how they look. This is only magnified when they get a little bit older and boys and men start giving them 'positive' attention if theyre attracted to them or negative attention if theyre not attracted to them. Id a friend at 14 who got followed down the street by a group of teenage boys shouting 'who let the dogs out' & barking at her. Ive been in pubs with friends in my early 20's and men have come up and told a member of the group she was ugly, while sitting on a bus with a friend when in our early 20's, a man of similar age turned around, looked at my friend and told her she was the ugliest woman he'd ever seen. People are horrible!!! and thats not even the tip of the ice berg when it comes to how cruel teenage girls are to one another. but calling a girl ugly, whether the insult is coming from a male or female, its incredibly hurtful to most young people who havnt developed strong self esteem & they carry those insecurities into adulthood.

For allot of women it comes down to feeling insecure and probably having a fractured sense of self, its not really about what men like or find attractive they just know that if they get the fillers or the fake boobs, they get attention in a way that makes them feel wanted or attractive, it makes them feel good so they keep doing it.

That said for allot of women its probably that they look in the mirror and feel a bit more confident in how they present to the world.

Either way, theyre not doing anything illegal and theyre entitled to do what they like to their own bodies & faces and no one else has to like it or approve of it.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041221#Comment_121041221

again, I ask, what should be the punishment for hurting someone's feelings?

Do you think you should be punished for your blanket statement about girls who look a certain way probably being "easy"?

If someone who looked the way you described felt emotional and upset about what you wrote, should you be face repercussions?

Also, what defines a "serious" insult? If we are to gauge the seriousness of an insult on the effect it has on the person, that is wildly changeable from person to person and from day to day.

What you are asking for is for opinions and words, that you don't want to hear, to be a punishable offence.

Thats absolutely terrifying.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041238#Comment_121041238

The bus incident would be a court appearance and a fine of 500 euro.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041320#Comment_121041320

And what punishment should you receive if someone got upset about you calling people who looks like them "easy"?

I'm starting to believe this is a wind up

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041348#Comment_121041348

"While hurtful comments can be emotionally distressing, the threshold for legal action can vary"

I think the issue is that TRUTHFUL comments can be emotionally distressing for some people and those people want anything they don't like to hear be punishable by law.

They want to live in their own bubble where nothing can hurt them.

Pathetic.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041373#Comment_121041373

who wants to live in a bubble?

Do you want to live a bubble where its ok to tell strangers they are the ugliest woman they ever saw? thats a great bubble to be in.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041430#Comment_121041430

You do.

You want to live in a world where something that you find offensive can land someone else in court, yet you have no issue in calling people idiots and saying that people who look a certain way are promiscuous.

That's your bubble.

You want what YOU find offensive banned. Thats what living in a bubble means.

I don't want to live in a bubble at all.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031802#Comment_121031802

Just behind their backs :)

If you want to go the court route to punsuh someone for saying a woman is the ugliest person he had ever seen it might open up another can of works.

He would have to demonstrate in court how ugly she is.

Then she would have to demonstrate that there are uglier women than her around.

He would then say well i have not seen them.

She brings i an uglier woman and then says , now you have so i am now the second ugliest woman you have ever seen.

He says well at the time i said it you held the number one spot. Now you are number two.

No, I dont think this will work.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041524#Comment_121041524

Also the uglier woman can now bring the 2nd ugliest to court for hurting her feelings.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040782#Comment_121040782

And even if they could be identified, there's a defense that the person saying the insult believed at the time that she was the ugliest woman in the world. And also that it's just an opinion.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041557#Comment_121041557

It doesnt matter what you believe. just say you think a celebrity is in the IRA for example, do you think you would be ok to say this on twitter or to their face? without getting in trouble for it legally?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041691#Comment_121041691

Lol...

What?!?!?

Being in the IRA isn't subjective. Attractiveness is.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041707#Comment_121041707

You are saying if you believe something, then its ok to say so.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041745#Comment_121041745

You think saying that someone is in the IRA (an objective fact) and saying someone is ugly (a subjective opinion) is the same thing?

"I always assume women with all this cosmetic surgery are easy."

What punishment should I get for upsetting all women with a certain type of cosmetic surgery?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041373#Comment_121041373

Who said truthful comments can be emotionally distressing?

mrslancaster

How would people who insult others even be charged or prosecuted? The bar for that must be very high considering how a lot of people are excellent at hiding insults or bullying behaviour. They are masters at couching their nasty words and behaviour in ways that achieve their intention to hurt/insult/embarrass/belittle or bully the receiver, but to onlookers it seems like banter or just a smart/silly remark.

We are very good at that kind of thing in this country and if anyone calls it out, those nasties respond with things like dont be so sensitive, or I was only joking, or she/he is such a drama queen, or I'm entitled to my opinion, or its just a bit of banter.

That brutal 'banter' is even used by a huge multi-national drinks company in their local tv ad campaign where people are sneered at because of their appearance or activities "but it's all coz we love ya". Blatant nastiness right there, but people think those ads are funny and buy that product 😡😡😡

It happens quite frequently on boards also, nasty rude snide posts that are only about one-upmanship. So if those things are rife, clear as day, and yet nobody does anything about them, imo policing one-off insults is practically impossible.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041954#Comment_121041954

what ads are they?

I don't think I've seen them

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041179#Comment_121041179

For calling them the ugliest person in the world, to be more specific? Oh I dunno. Internet talk from me, informed by disgust at that man, and at the way people here are downplaying/misrepresenting the incident.

He was bullying/harassing her though, no matter how much you, con747 and Mrs O'Bumble (who gets a kick out of showing how edgy she is) downplay it or pretend people are looking for punishments for merely truthful statements (who the hell said that?) That man humiliated and hurt the girl. And he got away with it. And will likely continue to behave that way - just towards people whom he knows won't stand up to him of course. Scumbag.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042097#Comment_121042097

Grand.

So you agree his behaviour shouldn't be classed as illegal, and that man's behaviour should be widely condemned by normal people as rude, inappropriate and uncalled for.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041954#Comment_121041954

As has been pointed out, certain categories of citizens are protected by legislation. In those cases prosecutions could be taken by the State. Otherwise it would be a civil matter where one party brings the other to court. That does not involve the Gardai having to arrest anyone.

You can read the 2009 Defamation Act to see how well the legal texts matches your plain language assessment of insults etc. As always it comes down to what a "Reasonable Person" would think.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041179#Comment_121041179

A night in bed with the victim.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042163#Comment_121042163

And you agree that you just made up that people are calling for punishments for people telling the truth?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042274#Comment_121042274

No.

I said "I think the issue is that TRUTHFUL comments can be emotionally distressing for some people and those people want anything they don't like to hear be punishable by law"

The whole premise of this topic is that someone was told something they didn't want to hear. We have no idea whether it is true or not, but because it was emotionally distressing, the OP thinks it warrants a court appearance and a €500 fine. By that logic, telling a person something that is true, but not particularly nice to hear, would be worthy of the same if it upset that person.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042353#Comment_121042353

I seriously think you are a troll, this bull$hit about "if the statement is true or not" is crazy, who cares if the a$$hole who said it thinks its true or not, that doesnt matter, he said it to attack, hurt and humiliate an innocent woman minding her own business on a bus. if you think that is perfectly fine then I dont know what to say. Im sure we all have seen plenty of people we thought are ugly during our life but most normal people keep it to themselves for obvious reasons.

an insult like the bus guy is as bad as a punch to the face in my opinion.