Clampdown on TV 'Dodgy Boxes'

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798295#Comment_121798295

Interesting. I was thinking of getting Sky Steam. I only want a small subset of channels. But I really wasn't sure. That feedback has made my decision for me.

I don't like streaming in general as a rule. I got a free trial for NetFlix, but found the content of very limited interest to me.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796872#Comment_121796872

Nickname for my ex too.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798471#Comment_121798471

Think I met her sister. Freeview dodgy box.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798499#Comment_121798499

This is going to lead to questions like: Mam, Dad, Does the Firestick go into the Dodgy Box?

CorkFenian

Quick query using IPTV with Formuler Z10 Pro I havent got a VPN for it, but see it does use VPN cert, if honest I felt that this generation of boxes was different, I have a old Sonic Wall i could throw in just wanted to see what people think, using it for over a year now its great, just seeing the news reports etc how can they target users etc? The cases they have in papers are all over 3-4 years ago or more completely different model of delivery.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798295#Comment_121798295

Didn't say the name was 100% accurate - I just think it's brilliant people name it something that sounds so "Del Boy" in full acknowledgement that what they're using it for is dodgy/illegal.

NIMAN

Discussed on The Last Word tonight, and of course went to the "any chance this service could put viruses on to your system?" angle.

Try to scare folk into not buying one.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798713#Comment_121798713

It used to. Then I met yer ma. After a deep system scan no issues found. Dream box. Great firmware. Then you arrived. Chipset off the old block.

I think Im done. 🤣.

Cluedo Monopoly

I looked into getting a dodgy box. I found out that 2 suppliers in my local area were actually Gardai.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798744#Comment_121798744

No one on here is going to discuss or assist you with VPNs or the thread will get locked.

To your question "How can they target users". Answer: They can't. They are only targetting the sellers of dodgy boxes. Probably tracked them down from their website or facebook advert.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799152#Comment_121799152

Well believe it. Laughable when you hear posters trying to link it to organised crime. There isn't anywhere near enough money involved for them to start getting into the market.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799168#Comment_121799168

It's absolutely true. I didn't believe it at first but I know who they are now. They don't hide it either. One of them is related to a well known politician!

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799100#Comment_121799100

I'll tell you son. For years it was just me and my Atari Jaguar joystick. Then I met yer ma and it was fire stick every night. for about six. Then, it tapered off. I still played regularly, about once a week. Then an add-on was pushed out called MiniMe v1.0. After that, anytime I went to play it was "incompatible hardware", No more releases and we agreed, definitely no more add-ons.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799237#Comment_121799237

I prefer the cheap Chinese boxes meself.

Murt2024

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799157#Comment_121799157

VPN's are legal so what's the issue? Plenty of threads in bargain alerts where VPNs are needed

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799157#Comment_121799157

Installing a VPN is nearly about as easy as installing an update for Windows. It really comes down to whether you are willing to pay for it. Personally if I stream IPTV, I would just rather make it as difficult for my ISP to know what I am streaming or who/where I am streaming it from. I don't use a VPN for anything else.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799334#Comment_121799334

I disagree with the ease of installing a VPN. Absolutely if you work with computers everyday or are in anyway tech savy you will be grand. I know plenty of people aren't able to setup IPTV after buying it. The same people would be seriously reluctant to purchase a vpn and set it up.

beertons

My stream went off last Thursday, yer man got word he would be busted. So shut everything down and turned off his phone. Let his resellers know a few days in advance though. He had a great app too, Superstream. Gone now. Devastated. On a crappy one now, EOD I think.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799391#Comment_121799391

He'll be back. They always come back.

CorkFenian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799157#Comment_121799157

No worries thanks thats what I was thinking and none are doing that anymore, regarding VPN thats fine as well, will look elsewhere as said I dont believe i really need one with the formuler z10 pro thanks again for the post 😀

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I've never heard so much waffle, misinformation and downright lies from the media today regarding dodgy boxes and stealing your information, they're clearly mixing up streams on the internet through browsers and an actual dodgy box. They can try but they won't take all the servers down. When one goes down two pop up somewhere else. Work away folks, get a good VPN. Nothing to see here.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799391#Comment_121799391

If it doesn't return I can get you a referral, pm me if interested.

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796746#Comment_121796746

I am not sure if you could tell much based on characteristics alone.

With an encrypted connection all they could really tell is the IP the data is coming from and the size. The various IPTV providers have different bit rates so I think all you could reliably determine is that someone is streaming at a certain time. You could try and correlate that with matches but that would be extremely difficult given users don't tend to watch all matches or start the stream bang on 0 minutes and end on 90 minutes. There is also a ton of legal streaming happening at the same time.

I think the copyright holders have gone down a much cheaper route. Namely:

1) Sign up to the services themselves to identify the source IPs. Build up a large list and then get the ISP to block 20 minutes into a big sporting event

2) Find some amateur sellers of preloaded boxes/subs and try to get as much press about prosecuting them into the press as possible. The articles tend to be so misleading (like the FACT one) that they are either paid for or cheap journalism that just regurgitates press releases.

Blazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051065#Comment_121051065

its more to do with sky paying out billions to show soccer matches which is heavily funded by normal tv viewers. Only for that it would be way way cheaper to rent sky.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799898#Comment_121799898

Careful, could be a narc..

beertons

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800232#Comment_121800232

Ha

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799152#Comment_121799152

That level of stupidity is up there with the lad in Dublin who gave his real name and address to people looking to buy dodgy boxes. I can't see them having a long career with the Gardai.

"The court heard that in January 2019, a member of Sky’s anti-piracy investigation team identified a profile on Adverts.ie selling Android TV boxes to provide free subscription TV. The ad was placed under the name 'Robco' but when the investigator phoned, the seller gave his name as Noel and provided his own address. The Sky investigator then arrived at Robinson’s house and bought an Android box for €150."

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798162#Comment_121798162

FACT sent the letters and emails too. The correspondence carry’s as much legal weight as your mate telling you not to use it. Pathetic that Newstalk etc go along with this nonsense.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800649#Comment_121800649

Thats a FACT.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800016#Comment_121800016

With access to traffic data, a lot of the problems are solved. The characteristics of the traffic are known and the user IP is known. The usage patterns for streaming are different to those of browsing. Correlating it with sports events would be easy. With the access to the traffic data, ordinary services like Netflix etc could be excluded. The identity of the user may not be known and could require a court order to get the ISP to diisclose it. Knowing something and being able to prove it in court are two very different things.

Targeting the resellers is the most efficient method for the broadcasters because instead on knocking out one dodgy box, it knocks out a number of dodgy boxes at the same time. In the lobbying for the original EU legislation on Conditional Access services, some broadcasters wanted it to be made an offence down to the user level but the more sensible ones understood that targeting the distribution chain was a more effective method.

The problem with the Irish media is that most of those "writing" about the subject have no expertise in it. This means that they will accept press releases on face value. Much of what passes for technology journalism in the non-specialist press is little more than Cargo Cult stuff. The distinct lack of a clue in the media gives gives broadcasters and players like FACT an edge because their claims are unlikely to be questioned by these people.

With a hack on a broadcaster's system, there are three stages:

Theorisation. (Can it be done and how can it be done?)

Implementation. (Test the theory and, if necessary, develop a production model capable of being sold (Weaponisation).)

Monetisation. (Making money from it while minimising the risks of detection.)

This is at the third stage and technical countermeasures (identifying and neutralising subscriptions used to feed the dodgy box networks) are less likely to work on a large scale. The addition of Crypto has made it a lot more difficult for the broadcasters. The downside for Crypto as a monetisation method is the complexity for ordinary users.

Previously, with the first (analogue descramblers), second (pirate smartcards) and third (receivers capable of Card Sharing) generations of pirate devices, it was possible to put pressure on credit card companies to withdraw facilities. There was no EU-wide legal framework and country level legislation was patchy at best and rarely offered any protection to broadcaster outside the jurisdiction. Cash is also more difficult to trace until it shows up in the banking sysem. If someone pays for a dodgy box service through any banking service, there will be a record of the transaction. However, it is not possible for a broadcaster to monitor bank transactions. Cash is easier for the ordinary user but it creates problems for resellers and distributors.

The biggest problem for the broadcasters is the fragmentation of the dodgy box market into small reseller based networks. These can be difficult to detect and infiltrate. And the size of these reseller networks works against the broadcaster in that when it takes out one of these networks, another springs up in its place. Unless they can get the devices used in such networks banned, their options are limited. This leaves the FUD approach with gullible journalists.

That FUD approach with journalists can actually work to some extent. The problem is that the cost of a dodgy box subscription is much less than that for a genuine subscription to all services. Broadcasters are always going to have a level of piracy on their systems but it is the economic argument that is most dangerous as it can turn an acceptable level of piracy into a major problem that has shareholders complaining. On the other side, the cost of the equipment used for dodgy box services is often less than the cost of the legitimate subscription to the services. In effect, dodgy boxes have become disposable. That's the most dangerous part of the equation for the broadcasters.

I suppose that watching the journalists trying to push the broadcaster propaganda without understanding the issues is entertainment in itself.

Regards...jmcc