Shooting of Ta'Kiya Young

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060838#Comment_121060838

What threat?

They didn't have guns drawn heading into their investigation, she wasn't presenting any threat.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060839#Comment_121060839

The cop wasn't in front of her direction of travel whatsoever until he leapt in front of it at the moment of killing her.

Overheal

I'll give you another similar incident and you can give me your thoughts on whether it was truly justifiable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CTgPf-KRhE

This shows this is a pattern of training in US police forces, to insert yourself in front of a rolling vehicle to claim vehicular assault for often a clearly premeditated death. In this case in video, "Stop or I'll blow your **** head off"; this one happened up the road from me. Cost the city millions.

We see the same one hand on the vehicle, one hand on the gun tactics.

Someone is clearly training them all to do this. And it clearly happens with frequency, so police cannot claim they only have "3 seconds" to know how to react to these situations, they've had years, and centuries of collective experience to train themselves how to handle these situations, they're allegedly professionals with professional training. If this isn't their training, then what is it? Oh yeah its this:

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1385291145522122752?s=20

Boggles

It's a sad reflection that this incident is even contentious.

A young lady who allegedly stole a bottle a beer (she didn't) should not be dealt with in the same way those Navy Seals dealt with Bin Laden.

Let her go, run the plates, view the CCTV.

No one had to die.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060316#Comment_121060316

That video is a fantastic argument in favour of shooting. Due to his reluctance to not pull the trigger when the car was going slowly, you see that later on, he ended up holding on for dear life as the car hit 50mph. Eventually, at the end of the video, he was thrown from the vehicle as it was proceeding at a reasonable rate of knots cross country.

What you also don't see in that video is that the officer in question ended up with a broken back. So, yeah, between 'shoot' and 'get a broken back', I know which way I'd go.

The argument that "The officer was contributory by standing in front of the vehicle when he didn't have to" was also argued by the defense in the subsequent court case. The Judge didn't go for it.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061100#Comment_121061100

What was the judges argument in favor of encouraging police to jump in front of cars for the sake of getting that ink and the best sex of their lives? I’m guessing none of that is admissible

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061099#Comment_121061099

What do you mean she didn't.. How do you know that? She come out of Krogers, which is a pharmacy. No beer sale.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061144#Comment_121061144

I don't believe it was even attempted to be argued in court.

The judge observed that Officer McCarty probably should have stepped aside, but also observed that that was an entirely different matter to the item at trial: that it had nothing to do with the accused's decision to hit the accelerator and attempt to leave the engagement which prior to then had not been violent, and that that action endangered the officer's life.

As far as I know, Professor Grossman was not involved in the case in any way, shape or form, either during the incident or in the discussion afterwards.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061291#Comment_121061291

The judge observed that Officer McCarty probably should have stepped aside, but also observed that that was an entirely different matter to the item at trial: that it had nothing to do with the accused's decision to hit the accelerator and attempt to leave the engagement which prior to then had not been violent, and that that action endangered the officer's life.

You're focusing on the best example: McCarty rode that car hood and did not join the club of inked killer cops. The perp lived and is serving a 5 year prison sentence, the courts never had to make the determination of whether the cop used justifiable lethal force, because he did not apply lethal force.

How about Mark Tiller, under similar circumstances? At least he had clear probable cause of a drug deal in progress.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3773230/SC-officer-killed-unarmed-teen-fired-13-months-later.html

And boy isn't he just inked too!

As far as I know, Professor Grossman was not involved in the case in any way, shape or form, either during the incident or in the discussion afterwards.

See no culture hear no culture speak no culture. Walks and quacks like a duck.

https://newrepublic.com/article/141675/professor-carnage-dave-grossman-police-warrior-philosophy

Beefcake82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061397#Comment_121061397

Ah i see your still beating that drum of "has tattoo must be badge gang member bad person" I have some tattoos, if i got a job as a cop with a gun, am i more likely to go out and "execute" black folks?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061434#Comment_121061434

Zachary Hammond wasn't black.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061172#Comment_121061172

Krogers is a supermarket, not a pharmacy

Beefcake82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061455#Comment_121061455

And where did i reference the race of the person who was shot? I was referencing how you think all cops with tattoos are gang members.

Good job on trying to spin another response 😂

Oh and just so you are clear, i asked about me being a cop and executing black folks as a separate thing.

Manic Moran

[quote]You're focusing on the best example: McCarty rode that car hood and did not join the club of inked killer cops. The perp lived and is serving a 5 year prison sentence, the courts never had to make the determination of whether the cop used justifiable lethal force, because he did not apply lethal force.[/quote]

[Edit. Oh, FFS. How does one do a selective quote?]

The cop suffered a broken back. How is that a 'best' example? He has made a full recovery, yes, but I don't know about you, for me anything which carries a likelihood of a broken back is best avoided. He got lucky. There's a reason I haven't taken car-surfing as a hobby. We expect police to take risk. We don't expect them to take excessive risk.

How about Mr Tiller? The prosecutor observed that he broke no law. He apparently violated department policy, but I would observe he was standing next to the vehicle, not in front of it, so the case is not directly analogous to the two others.

lbunnae

Scumbags on this thread. He pointed a gun in her face for alleged shoplifting. Clearly wanted a black kill , hope he loses his job . Scum.

Beefcake82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062341#Comment_121062341

Pointed gun directly at her AFTER she started driving into him, clear as day in the video as i have pointed out in screen captures.

Slideways

I’ve seen the video.

There was no licence plates on the car (and she was parked in a disabled parking spot) so for people to suggest they could just find her afterwards is non-sense.

Did she deserve to die for a petty offence? Hell no.

If she had cooperated and gotten out of the car would she be alive? Yup.

Everyone knows American police are trigger happy, she drove towards a police officer with his gun drawn. What did she think was going to happen. I really don’t agree with the justification of shooting someone who is trying to escape but if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062411#Comment_121062411

Everyone knows she acted stupidly. It's not very insightful to point it out. Stupidity shouldn't equal death.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061099#Comment_121061099

This sums up my thoughts.

Her driving off with "stolen goods" would not have been a catastrophic situation. Her being shot dead is.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062209#Comment_121062209

I think Overheal means it’s a best example of police not having shot a suspect. But it’s not, it’s routine for police not to shoot suspects. The car surfing officer joins the ranks of what not to do. I can understand he didn’t want to shoot, panicked, but what was he going to do once he was up there? He was completely at the mercy of someone who showed no regard for the officers life, and it was only luck that the suspect drove into an open area instead of traffic, which would have left the officer with little choice but to shoot in order to prevent the suspect from harming others.

I think the officer in this situation panicked too, their training wasn’t sufficiently ingrained for a real-life situation where the procedure was not to put themselves in front of a vehicle. She panicked, he panicked, I don’t believe he intended to kill her, and I don’t think he was thinking about the potential consequences of a bullet going through glass, but to shoot someone suspected of thieving liquor who wouldn’t exit the vehicle? I think he was too quick leaping to apprehending the suspect regardless of the cost to either himself or the suspect. I think he’s likely to be haunted by what he could have done differently for a long time. I don’t imagine the officer started their day imagining it would end like it did.

Gatling

@oneyedjack I think the officer in this situation panicked too, their training wasn’t sufficiently ingrained for a real-life situation where the procedure was not to put themselves in front of a vehicle. She panicked, he panicked, I don’t believe he intended to kill her, and I don’t think he was thinking about the potential consequences of a bullet going through glass.

There was no panicked response,one cop was trying to pull the door open,when there was zero justification to try force the door open,she only had to lower the window by a quarter to talk to the officer,they stated shouting at her while one Cleary drew his firearm with one hand on her car ,he presented and pulled the trigger,he aimed a single shot into her chest, he placed himself on to her car to get a clean one shot kill ,

Even the statement from the cops is oh she assaulted two officers, a car is a 2000lb deadly weapon, already putting the blame firmly on the victim and her unborn child,

There was no justification for a cop to shoot her at less than 2ft away,

Don't comply, then execution is justified but we all know that the cops are trigger happy, back to let solely blame the Unarmed pregnant woman who's dead

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063127#Comment_121063127

Don't comply, then execution is justified but we all know that the cops are trigger happy, back to let solely blame the Unarmed pregnant woman who's dead

Nah Gatling, I don’t agree that simple non-compliance justifies killing another human being. The officers involved had a much greater responsibility in that situation than the girl who had no authority and no training to handle a situation like that. The officers had, but when it came to a real-life situation where they had to put the theory into practice, it’s understandable that they made a complete balls of it and had no control over an escalating situation.

It’s trite for me to be able to say it, not being in that situation and all, but I’m not fond of attributing to malice what can be explained by incompetence. I don’t know that cops are trigger happy, I do know that they can often find themselves in situations where they fall back to reacting instinctively rather than relying on their training. Being armed in those circumstances is unlikely to end well for anyone.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058590#Comment_121058590

the criminal who was being arrested life is more important than the life of the cop who was trying to stop her ?? fair play lad your are on one side and civilization is on the other

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060837#Comment_121060837

trying to kill the police officer isn't a problem ?, once again a criminals life if black is more important to a racist than a police officers life ,

real life is gona hurt you some day

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060807#Comment_121060807

obvious factual and clear lie , why this is tolerated i don't know

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063213#Comment_121063213

She was an innocent unarmed pregnant woman....

She wasn't under arrest...

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063340#Comment_121063340

aw would ya stop its clear as day she tried to kill some one and he defended himself , she was innocent of nothing and pregnant has nothing to do with it apart from her own lack of responsibility to her own child

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062380#Comment_121062380

She didn’t drive into him she drove away from him cutting her wheel hard to the right and slowly rolled forward. Stop lying for a scumbag.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062411#Comment_121062411

“It’s a police terror state just comply TM”

Everyone knows American police are trigger happy, she drove towards a police officer with his gun drawn. What did she think was going to happen

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062503#Comment_121062503

Had he shot her the car would still be driving just 100% out of control and into traffic.

The first step is don’t get in front of a vehicle because a meat sack doesn’t stop it, clearly.