Small claims court

Nigzcurran

Hi we bought a Samsung TV off Harvey Norman 18 months ago for €600 and it has stopped working, we rang the store who told us it only came with a 12 month warranty and we would be liable for any repairs. We filed a complaint with the small claims court on Friday, has anyone any experience with this type of thing? Thanks

unkel

Sure. But how did you play it with Harvey Norman? Did you engage in email exchange and they wouldn't budge even when you put in deadlines and said you would take it to the SCC? Most companies will settle when you show them you have started a SCC case. But maybe not HN. The one time I was actually in court in the SCC, there was a HN case and HN didn't show up to defend themselves, so the claimant won

You will most likely get a good chunk of your money back. Here is what will happen: you go to court, HN doesn't show up, you state your case, the judge, depending on how left wing they are or in what mood they are, might be annoyed with this and order HN to give you your €600 back. Or they might be a bit more level headed and order HN to give you your €600 back minus depreciation over 18 months, which could be around €200 or so

muffler

Consumer law covers you for up to 6 years but you may have jumped the gun a bit by starting a claim. That should be a last resort. Like any retailer HN are well aware of their legal obligations and are basically chancing their arm and I'm sure there are people out there who would fall for that.

I can't post a link at the moment but Google CCPC and you will get all the info you need.

Sugar_Rush

I have to ask in relation to this (not to "hijack" the OP), cause the situation I'm in is so similar.

I bought a 1500 euro laptop off Curry's last July.

At the end of July this year, it also stopped working.

The warranty was just for 12 months, so I was literally days outside it.

Would I have been eligible to dispute this?

I just assumed that, given it was outside of warranty, I wouldn't have been?

.......

But as with the OP, perhaps that only applies to small repairs, not the entire thing basically stopping working entirely?

I could have taken that to the SCC?

Nigzcurran

Yeah sorry I should have added more details, I raised it via email with HN who gave me a ticket number and said they'd get back to me within 24 hours, they never did so I rang them and spoke to them and this was when they told me about the warranty being expired and said they could send out a technician at our own expense, I told them that it wasn't acceptable to sell a tv for €600 which only lasted 18 months and if they weren't prepared to send someone out to investigate it at least then I'd have to pursue it through the small claims court. He told me to go ahead and raised it again on their system and sent me a new ticket number.

Sugar_Rush

I actually didn't even know there was consumer law on this.

Don't know if this is the official consumer law website?

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/faulty-goods/

When a good has a fault, you can decide if you want a repair or replacement. It should be provided by the business:

• within a reasonable time
• without significant inconvenience to you
• free of charge

You should act quickly and tell a business when you find a problem. Under the Statute of Limitations, you have 6 years to take a case against a business. During the first year if you have a dispute with a business they have to show that the product was not faulty when you received it.

.........

By that rationale, could anyone who experienced an issue with their product 6 years following its purchase, not simply bring it back in store and expect a refund or repair, without charge? (even if it's outside the 12 month warranty).

Curry's sell "tech insurance"; if this statute is in place, would they not be obliged to tend to a faulty product, regardless of whether a buyer has bought this?

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059142#Comment_121059142

I think it's the duty of the clerk to only accept valid claims and to encourage communication between the parties to resolve the issue. So if the case is accepted it generally means the person filing the claim has no other option. (and has a good chane of winning.)

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059159#Comment_121059159

Under law you should have a minimum 2 year warranty.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059159#Comment_121059159

You are covered for six years so you can still go SCC route.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059190#Comment_121059190

. If the fault with your product occurs within its guarantee period (normally 12 months from delivery) we will offer you a prompt repair service*

currys.ie/terms-conditions.html

Under "Faulty Goods".

?

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059233#Comment_121059233

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059233#Comment_121059233

As above. EU law trumps any business t & c's

Rows Grower

Here's a good explanation....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/faulty-goods-know-your-rights-if-things-go-wrong-1.3450322

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059296#Comment_121059296

Does this story sound familiar? You buy a fancy piece of technology and spend hundreds or maybe thousands of euro on it. Then, 13 months or so down the line, it dies but when you brings it back to the shop you are told that as the warranty has expired, there is nothing that can be done. So you go away you go. Disconsolate.

Yes.

That does sound familiar, lol.

Jebus.

endacl

A warranty offered by a retailer is simply the time period within which they will agree to honour their legal obligations without being made to.

unkel

A warranty offered by a retailer is meaningless. Your statutory rights are much better than most warrantees in Ireland.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059433#Comment_121059433

Yeah but what is the actual procedure?

Walk into Curry's and they tell you you're outside of warranty.

Simply inform them of your statutory rights and take it up with the SCC?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059447#Comment_121059447

None of the floor level staff will have a clue what you are talking about. The store managers generally do, but claim to be dumb. Take it up with them, have a robust conversation, if that doesn't go anywhere, you need to take it to email. Remain polite throughout, claim your rights

If it isn't going anywhere, tell them you have no option but to take it to the small claims court. If that doesn't help, actually start a SCC procedure, it is free as long as it hasn't gone ahead. Show the retailer that. If that doesn't help and your case is approved by the SCC. Show the retailer that. If that doesn't help, it will actually go to court and the judge will almost certainly rule in your favour

I've done this many times, won my case every single time

magicbastarder

there's been a couple of mentions of the 'you should get six years', and this has come up on another thread - i had taken that to mean that the statute of limitations on exercising your legal rights is six years, not that the good should last six years. am i reading that right?

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059473#Comment_121059473

Wow, that's awesome.

But the "playing dumb" part is still unscrupulous on behalf of the store staff.

And most consumers (as I wasn't up until now), are not going to be well informed on their statutory rights.

......

Basically in my case recently, I took out "tech insurance" on my 1500 euro purchase, but discontinued it in May (having made the purchase the previous July), cause I figured if something were to go wrong, it would do so in that first time period.

I cancelled the direct debt, but their system didn't register the cancellation, so they think I'm still paying - and when I went in 1 year + two weeks beyond the conventional warranty period, they saw my insurance was still good (even though I stopped paying it), and repaired it (which involved replacing the screen).

So........ I did get a repair, but through a misunderstanding or admin error with insurance on their behalf, basically.

.........

I had intended to reinstate my insurance when I go to collect the machine (next week it comes back from repair), but having read this information, now intend to simply use my consumer right moving forward.

I've paid 100 euro in tech insurance fees already which, according to consumer rights, I would not have needed.

No big deal, and ultimately they did a fairly costly repair in good time (2 weeks mandatory repair under tech insurance).

But definitely not shelling out 200 euro for 24 months insurance cover moving forward - knowing these consumer rights are in place (and I will be following to the letter your outline of how to enforce those consumer rights).

unkel

Do not EVER get extra warranty. It is 100% income for the retailer and they will occur zero extra risk or cost. You are covered under your statutory rights

@magicbastarder - no. There are no hard and fast rules about this. There is some jurisprudence but what usage you can expect from an appliance varies wildly. A washing machine in a family of 7, maybe you'd get 2 years. A mobile phone also maybe 2 years. A fridge possibly 5 years, etc. (making these figures up as I go along)

magicbastarder

i did once have an amusing conversation with a lad, i think in currys, about 20 years ago. i bought an electric razor as a present for my brother, i think it was €75. the sales guy asked did i want to buy the extended warranty, €15. i said no, it wasn't worth it. he offered it to me for a tenner then. i bargained him down to €2 and bought it for the laugh.

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059535#Comment_121059535

The guy I dealt with in Harvey Norman told me because I was offered the option of purchasing an extended warranty and declined it that then meant I was liable for any problems after 12 months because in his own words "we can't be sure any of the electrical goods we sell will last beyond the 12 month warranty"

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059701#Comment_121059701

Like I said the floor staff haven't a clue. In your case it's a bit more sinister. Typical case of a dodgy salesperson on commission, doing anything to get the money, even lie and cheat.

Nigzcurran

I'll email HN and let them know I've started the process with the small claims court and see if they change their stance, im not holding my breath though!

endacl

If you do go ahead with the claim, make sure you put their corporate address on the form, and not just the address of the shop in question.

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059808#Comment_121059808

Yep cheers I put the full company name as it appears on their listing

Oscar_Madison

You have consumer rights beyond some lousy 1 year shop guarantee - there’s a reasonable expectation that goods will last a sufficient length of time- it’s good to see you using those rights- everyone should - tie up the store in plenty of legal paperwork and they’ll soon start changing their tune

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059701#Comment_121059701

Worth mentioning that to the court if you get a chance - an employee of HN admitting that they're selling substandard goods!

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060899#Comment_121060899

Yep shame I didn't record the conversation, the guy really was terrible at his job. I have a nice thread of emails that should help me, I've sent them another mail today to let them know I've sent it off to the small claims court. I bought an LG OLED off them recently which came with a 5 year warranty and when I asked him about that he just shrugged and said only expensive tvs came with long warranties as if a €600 tv was nothing. I know the likes of richer sounds have their own rep on boards and offer great warranties and you can see why the savvy shopper will buy from them to avoid all this nonsense

GIMP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058311875/small-claims-court

Op I posted the below in 2020, similar issue with HN we got satisfaction when SCC case was initiated, they really treat their customers poorly!

*************************

Just an update to this for anyone looking for future advice or reference.

We went down the Small Claims route, initially HN contacted us offering a credit note but it was limited to the purchase of a new tv only not shop credit, which is fair tbh.

We refused this on the basis that over 4 months had passed since our initial reporting of the faulty tv and we had to purchase a new one in the meantime at our expense.

Outcome, they asked for the return of tv via courier and we got a cheque for the full purchase price of the tv. Case never progressed to SC but it was well worth the E25 registering the claim.

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062192#Comment_121062192

That good to hear, we don't know what to do at the moment as we are afraid to buy a new tv in case HN come back to us and offer us a new tv or credit note

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059159#Comment_121059159

You should raise this matter in writing with their Customer Service. Explain that you are looking for resolution under your Consumer Rights.

Treppen

Bought a tablet that failed after a year (only worked sometimes). Went through the whole arguing and letters and emails myself.

In the end I just went in and bought the exact same tablet again, wiped my old tablet, stuck it in the new box and brought it back the next day. Got my money back , no questions asked, have new tablet that works.

It's a risk (they might check the serial number but probably won't if it's the very next day) but cuts out the hassle.

muffler

I had a similar experience with Argos a few years ago. The stand on a telly I bought about 18 months previously became faulty and when I rang the local store I was told it was out of warranty and there was nothing they could do about it. So I rang the CCPC and after explaining everything they said I should contact the store again, tell them that the CCPC had determined I was entitled to a replacement and if Argos refused I was to get back to them and they would take it up directly with the store.

So I rang the local store again, said what I was told to say and low and behold a replacement was made available. I have say that the very mention of the consumer rights group can get immediate results ... on some occasions anyhow.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062575#Comment_121062575

Normally a robust conversation with the store manager will do the same. They tend to know full well about the sale of goods act (1980)

Nigzcurran

I think if more people were aware of their rights and pursued the likes of Harvey Norman through the courts then they might eventually offer a better warranty instead of the 12 month nonsense which is just about acceptable on a €20 toaster

Nigzcurran

Final update on this, after instigating a case in the small claims court Harvey Norman offered a free repair but they couldn't get the part in time so offered us the full price of the tv in store credit which we were happy with as we hadn't bought a replacement yet. The whole process was about 6 weeks and a bit tedious but definitely worth it

muffler

Good news on a Sunday morning. Glad you got sorted.

unkel

SCC (or even the threat of it) FTW

GIMP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240557#Comment_121240557

Great result, why retailers persist with this charade is beyond me when they know they will lose if it goes to SCC

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256518#Comment_121256518

Most people don't even know their rights, let alone the path to the SCC. Hopefully threads like this one will help some people.

Nigzcurran

It's a shame a customer is forced to go through this process to get something they are legally entitled to. Would be great if retailers were forced to put up notices in stores explaining clearly what your statutory rights are and how to go about enforcing them. Wishful thinking I know!

Mr lebowski

Guys I need some advice please. I kitted out a lot of my house out of a well known furniture shop. One of the items a table was damaged. I reported this immediately and they insisted on sending a repairman to see if he could fix it rather than give a refund. The repair man came and had no interest in trying to fix it he straight away started taking photos and tried telling me what happened rather than asking me. He claimed we had used a tool to put it together. He put this in his report also which is wholly untrue. I had been emailing them complaining but was getting nowhere. About a week after he was here I went to move the table to hoover and the leg fell off and it can't be reattached. He actually has broke the table. The original problem was that the table leg was too tight he said in his report. I again informed them but am getting nowhere at all. They want to send out a repairman again. I have filed a small claims case. My question is this should I let them come again or am I just setting myself up for a fall again. Where they can make up a story and try justify it with a report as I know there is no way they can fix it. If I refuse to give them the chance to fix it am I harming my chances in small claims court? What do you think my chances are. I emailed them to cancel the sale under the consumer act 2022 due to faulty goods but they are claiming it was an assembly issue so are ducking out of. Any tips or guidance approved. I only want what I paid for not a 3 legged table that they broke.I am getting nowhere with them at all. Anyone been in a similar situation?

Rows Grower

If you were sold faulty goods you will more than likely win your case.

I don't see how you have anything to lose letting the repair man try and fix the problem but I can't understand how he could be responsible for breaking the leg if there was a fault with it before he called and when he called he only took pictures and wrote a report?

Mr lebowski

Hi thanks for the response. The fault was that this was a wooden solid table. When the legs were screwed in by hand it caused bumps which should not be possible. He came and screwed the leg off and now they won't go back on he obliviously just propped it up and the other 3 legs kept it upright until it was moved. He tried fix it while he was here and messed around with it. I meant he had no genuine interest in fixing it. He was here to blame us that was clear from the off. He admitted it should not be possible by hand to damage it which was my point and he made up a story we used tools on 2 legs but not others for some bizarre reason and tried turn my argument around on me. He was reaching for a story as he couldn't even name a tool that we could have used when asked.

Nigzcurran

Let him try fix it and if your not happy proceed with the small claims court. Take plenty of pics and details for your application. They more than likely will refund you before you ever get to court

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122471311#Comment_122471311

Sounds a bit Fr. Ted'ish that he would just balance the leg and hope he would never be found out.