Electric Picnic 2024 **No Ticket Sales / Requests** - Waiting in line, terrible time, over familiar

Fanirish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992220#Comment_121992220

the €7m payout is skewed. It was historic profits from running the festival for the last decade plus and €3.5m of that was insurance payout for 2020 not happening.

The actual profits for EP on a normal year is around €1.5m range a year.

rubick

Electric Arena Capacity 15,693

Terminus Capacity 14,500

FIIIIGHT

Wooderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992507#Comment_121992507

The levels of use on both given similar capacities is wild.

dav09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992447#Comment_121992447

Yep, as I said dividend payout NOT yearly profits. EP Republic Ltd are public traded company so it's not difficult to figure out, so a lot of the 3.5mn business interruption insurance would have went towards fixed staff costs at 149k along with other yearly administrative expenses in the six figure range. Also I can tell you first hand they were lucky to get that payment a lot of businesses here insurance companies refused to pay out, and insurance companies the year after practically refused to sell Business Interruption insurance (of any much value, i.e. pandemics) so that initial payout would probably have likely been used to cover costs of 2021 too.

On a side note, if they do turn over 30mn yearly give or take from EP like suggested previously here, I think making only a 1.5mn net I think is far fetched. That would leave them at 5% net margin which is low for a lot of businesses particularly in the event space. I would assume whatever way they have their accounts, overall Live Nation Gaiety Ireland Holdings Ltd also profit from it, but that is a complete guess coming from someone not in the event organization industry whatsoever, particularly too as they have only eight full time staff working for EP Republic Ltd so the companies obviously share resources.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992081#Comment_121992081

I was asking with reference to that specific list. The initial announcement hasn't been this late since 2013, and even that year was an outlier. There is probably some reason for it being later than normal. Fanirish offered one explanation, and crl84 said that explanation was BS, so I was wondering what an alternative one would be. I suppose possibly its this planning permission issue, but that would imply there's still a reasonable chance it might be denied, in which case the whole festival will presumably be cancelled. Does anyone know if the planning decision is usually given earlier than it is this year?

MsMojave

No idea but looking at that planning now, it’s for an electric substation related to Electric Picnic’s decarbonisation efforts. Maybe not a huge deal.

MsMojave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992951#Comment_121992951

Okay I have dug and found 2022. Public consultation ended 25 February 2022. Licence granted in May 2022. Lineup in March. So nothing really matters. :)

Fanirish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992757#Comment_121992757

5% on revenue is actually on the money for promoters of live concerts and festivals.
Live nation 2023 financials had 22b in revenue and 1b in operating income so 5% range is normal.
Festivals aren’t a magic money tree that spits out 10/15/20% profit on revenue.

Fanirish

Planning permission never holds up an announcement for EP. Sure they even announced a post covid line up and got denied.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992393#Comment_121992393

What fiasco? FR have an exclusive sponsorship deal with Heineken that prevents them from selling non-Heineken alcoholic drinks. Standard for large festivals.

A guy from a local brewery protested (though entirely aware of the legalities) and probably did very well out of it with publicity and sales in the Stradbally SuperValu. He’ll do the same this year and should again succced. I’d prefer to buy his beer and I’d love to see it and other craft beer on site, but I won’t pretend that he’s in the right.

As of now he’s not contributing large amounts of cash to book acts. Until him and other independent breweries do so then they’re not going to usurp the role of Heineken at EP.

dav09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993423#Comment_121993423

This. I try to mostly drink craft beer by independent local companies but almost every festival has a major brewery as a lead sponsorship&alcohol provider. If you want to support local, I'm sure 90% of us bring bags of cans for your tent which I'm sure benefits tones of Irish breweries this time of year. A pure publicity stunt, non runner and makes 0 sense to anyone why that would be allowed happen unless they want to fork up likely 6 figures minimum I reckon to install a bar (even if Heineken were okay with it theoretically).

Plus, like Heineken or not, they do thankfully give a really good mix at EP regularly such as Heineken, Moretti, Coors, Lagunitas (multiple options one year), Bemish, Murphys, Orchard Thieves and more over the years. Much better than the rubbish package the likes of Diageo offer at gigs Guinness, Rockshore, Rockshore Apple and the odd time Citra IPA which you could say 3/4 are very very average tasting at best, would be a disaster if someone like them took over.

Wooderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993423#Comment_121993423

I'm sure there is an exclusivity deal, not denying that. My view is that is a poor deal and when put in relief against any chat about local producers or sustainability elsewhere on site looks fairly hypocritical.

Phishwax

Also the **** non free flow that Melvin imports. Free flow makes a festival a lot more enjoyable as the drinks sold matter much less

dav09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993545#Comment_121993545

It does, but again, major festivals usually don't allow this as it's millions in the difference sale wise for alcohol (which beer companies pay a premium on for the exclusivity of non free flow events).

Fanirish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993532#Comment_121993532

A key point that often overlooked with independents brewers is that most wouldn’t even be able to produce enough fresh beer for more than a few bars on site at any festival. Whiplash couldn’t produce enough for beyond the pale so it changed the brewery last year.

Stillill42

All part of the same overall conversation, I think. Things that FR 'have' to do to maintain the product. The booking of so many mainstream acts, the exclusivity deal, the lack of free flow, the massive commercialisation of the main arena...

With some imagination, could they be doing better and still achieving current profitability? I think so. I mean would it be impossible to broker a deal with Heineken whereby local independent brewers have a bar (much needed) at the Salty Dog or Jerry Fish? Instead of the current bullshit can arrangements?

They're coming from a place of such power at the moment, how they're always painted as being at the mercy of vendors, market forces etc baffles me.

At the rotting heart of the beast, there isn't the appetite to find imaginative, creative solutions, I don't think.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993532#Comment_121993532

Yeah, I’d agree about the lip service re local producers. And also regarding sustainability when the allow the debacle of abandoned tents and hunt in the campsites that all go to landfill. Not an easy problem to solve but they’re not even trying.

Of all the large festivals the only one I know that allows independent producers is Glasto. They’ve no corporate beer sponsor but then again they can get away with it. You’re also not going to get local craft beer at any of the smaller outdoor stuff or certainly at none I’ve attended (Galway Arts, Trinity, Malahide, Iveagh, etc). Hats off to the guy from Ballykilcavan and for his chutzpah I’ll be buying his beer again this year.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993545#Comment_121993545

Again you’ve got to assume that this is part of the sponsorship deal with Heineken. They’d hardly pay out substantial cash and then agree to people taking their own cans of Brewdog into the main arena.

Fanirish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993686#Comment_121993686

of course they could let independent brewers have their own bar as it won’t negatively affect Heineken/FR profits but in their eyes why bother. Heineken pay a seven minute sum for exclusivity so why cause friction on that.

C14N

What is free flow? Does that just mean being allowed to BYOB into the stage areas (as opposed to just the campsite)?

Stillill42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993752#Comment_121993752

Well there's the crux, why bother. Why bother putting any effort into interesting acts further down the bill when it's already sold out? Why bother maintaining the artistic beauty of the old Body and Soul area, why bother giving local brewers a chance and punters an interesting alternative, why bother with any of it? They don't HAVE to do any of it, they can just gradually chip away at everything that used to make the thing magical and still maintain profit. That's what most of this fecking thread is about for the last few years. I really hope you can see why they should bother. None of this stuff costs them anything or threatens their profits.

Seathrun66

We had craft beer (and a small local cider stall) at the first two EPs I went to (2006/2007) but very small scale. They used to have it at Victoria Park in London for festivals (Field Day, Citadel, etc) but it’s rare elsewhere on these islands and non-existent for big events in mainland Europe. @Stillill42 reported a brilliant setup at EOTR and I’d love to see something like that at smaller Irish events but you’re spot on about the volume required.

Maybe it’d work if several craft independents banded together and guaranteed a certain minimum litreage each but that could turn out to be a headache for organisers. @Mucker46 described a good set up at Night & Day but I’m unsure whether that was entirely local beer? That’d be a big selling point for me but it’ll never happen at an EP with 75k attendees.

Wooderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993736#Comment_121993736

Think with Glasters theres a bigger deal made of the local cider producers - consistently heralded over the years. Beer there is one of the v worst things about the festival haha. But shock! Fanirish is correct in that volumes are key with the contract holders. Tuborg or Carlsberg get the right to sell beer on Worthy Farm due to their capacity to meet the need. I get this - also I get that there is a minimal interest in craft beer amongst the genpop. However, there is no excuse why one small (peripheral?) bar could not sell local ale at EP. The loss to the festival would be miniscule - its no threat whatsoever. Merely another "nice" thing they could do. But they won't because corp needs will always win out with this shower.

dav09

I absolutely agree with a lot of what is said but unfortunately it's too idealistic. Like Fanirish said could cause unnecessary friction. As a moral dilemma, I would say very few people would unfortunately trade a lesser lineup to support local breweries (i.e. Heineken paying a couple of million less for exclusivity and free flow).

Heineken would almost definitely lose out on a lot of money if they allowed them no matter what way you look at it. A portion of the cash paid to FR is also to grow their brands. If you're an IPA drinker, you have to buy Lagunitas as it's the only option (besides the year they did Cute Hoor, also a Heineken product). It's also not just that sale but it gives exposure to new customers who might not typically drink that beer. It's the same with Bemish & Murphys for stout drinkers who have never tried them, as with Orchard Thieves.

An independent brewery even in Salty dog would likely do a big dent in Heinekens overall strategy I would say, and like mentioned very few companies in Ireland have the capacity to produce enough beer for even a small bar at scale for a major festival and many are sharing/ renting limited brewery space as is.

Stillill42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993798#Comment_121993798

Nobody's talking about independent brewers catering the whole shindig, Seath. A small bar in one of the areas outside the main arena would keep everyone happy. Pretty sure Ballykilcavan and Wicklow Wolf both had set ups at Forest Fest also.

Mucker46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993736#Comment_121993736

Night and day use local brewers at the moment. May change if grows.

Wooderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993786#Comment_121993786

Bang on the bollix right.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993812#Comment_121993812

Could play devils advocate and say that if Night and Day got bigger and got an offer from a a bigger brewery for exclusivity, local brewers would be told where to go. Smaller festivals always win out in that regard in fairness.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993801#Comment_121993801

The cider bus at Gladto is now an enormous set up. They’ve got to be dealing with thousands of customers per hour there.

There’s also the Real Ale/Craft tent beside the Acoustic stage which is a great place to hang out.

Some small cafes and food outlets sell their own wine also and there are probably other options onsite. There’s no branded beer monopoly anyway and I agree with you and @Stillill42 that having a bar (or two) at Salty Dog/Jerry Fish would really add to one or both of those stages with little loss to Heineken. JF needs a proper bar for starters.

dav09

Both relatively small festivals unfortunately, Galway Bay and O'Hara's also have provided beer to multiple festivals I've attended but again aren't in the league of EP. Bulmers (C&C) used sponsor a lot of the bigger ones too.

Also Heineken have a big working relationship with FR and co in general, Longitude, Malahide, etc. They do not want to mess up that relationship at any cost.

I could easily have bought 6/7 pints of Lagunitas per day after I've had my cans early on. That's roughly 180 eur in sales over the whole festival, even if the average was slighly less it is a long day none the less. lets say 150, multiply that by even just 5% of 75000 who might support local at the festival. Works out to be over half a million in sales, it's a big money business. I'm not defending them I just can't see it being a runner.